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Patrick Johnson
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01-22-2019, 12:20 PM

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Originally Posted by bbb View Post
scott are you saying the pros have forced themselves to to have a rhythm which has a forced ie "on purpose" pause and is not their natural rhythm ?
I think (from past comments like this) Scott's saying it's physically impossible to not "pause" when the cue's movement changes from backward to forward. I get what he's saying, but I've never understood the relevance to an intentional pause.

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01-22-2019, 12:50 PM

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Originally Posted by Patrick Johnson View Post
I think (from past comments like this) Scott's saying it's physically impossible to not "pause" when the cue's movement changes from backward to forward. I get what he's saying, but I've never understood the relevance to an intentional pause.

pj
chgo
Me either. Why force yourself into something out of your normal.

I understand the Buddy Hall & Allison Fisher Pause because that's their normal.

To each their own.

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Patrick Johnson
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01-22-2019, 01:54 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Johnson View Post
I think (from past comments like this) Scott's saying it's physically impossible to not "pause" when the cue's movement changes from backward to forward. I get what he's saying, but I've never understood the relevance to an intentional pause.

pj
chgo
Quote:
Originally Posted by goettlicher View Post
Me either. Why force yourself into something out of your normal.

I understand the Buddy Hall & Allison Fisher Pause because that's their normal.

To each their own.

randyg
Actually, I was saying I don't get how calling a change of direction a "pause" is an argument for pausing on purpose. I'm in favor of pausing, but I don't get this argument for it (if that's what it is)

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01-22-2019, 03:23 PM

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Originally Posted by Patrick Johnson View Post
Actually, I was saying I don't get how calling a change of direction a "pause" is an argument for pausing on purpose. I'm in favor of pausing, but I don't get this argument for it (if that's what it is)

pj
chgo
Kind of like the golf swing. There is a "pause" at the top but most reflex their wrists during it. With the clubhead moving backward, the arms and wrists are flexing it to take it down. A spring action. Adds powerful wrist movement. Maybe some in pool?


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01-22-2019, 04:07 PM

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Originally Posted by Prairie dog View Post
Kind of like the golf swing. There is a "pause" at the top but most reflex their wrists during it. With the clubhead moving backward, the arms and wrists are flexing it to take it down. A spring action. Adds powerful wrist movement. Maybe some in pool?
I think some players do use a "wind up" stroke. At the end of the backswing, there will already be considerable force forward. I think it would take a very good sports kinesiologist to tell us whether this is potentially a good thing or not.

If there is a distinct pause -- that is, more than an instant when the stick is not moving -- then there is also zero force on the cue stick during that time. For a "wind up" stroke, there is an instant of zero forward/back force on the cue but it is before the end of the backstroke and occurs at peak stick velocity backwards. With a distinct pause, there is that same no-force point while moving back, but it is followed some time later by the true pause.


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01-22-2019, 04:23 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Johnson View Post
I think (from past comments like this) Scott's saying it's physically impossible to not "pause" when the cue's movement changes from backward to forward. I get what he's saying, but I've never understood the relevance to an intentional pause.

pj
chgo
But some players never shift from backwards to forwards -- Like some Filipino players who use a continuous loop stroke. There, the arm is moving in one direction, but it's a circular or looping motion that brings the cue back around into the forward stroke without stopping or changing direction.
  
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01-22-2019, 05:09 PM

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Originally Posted by Ratta View Post
That s what is all about--
Most guys are discussing about the *time* they re pausing at the end of the stroke. It s not about to paus like Buddy, Niels, Kevin B. or who ever has this extremly Extended pause at the end of the back stroke--

It is just about a smooth Transition from back to Forward Motion- that s it!
This back to forward motion is what I've been experimenting with personally for quite a while. Timing. On a delicate shot, I'm sure everyone has felt the weight of the cue want to go forward at the "end" of the backswing.

I think of it like this: When you throw a ball in the air, it has kinetic energy. But at its highest point, its velocity is zero.

This 'point' is what I build my shot around. The point changes depending on bridge length, cue elevation, or grip placement, but it's always there. Since I started focusing on this feeling, shots that demand more can be executed easier.

I feel like you and the cue must be one. If things are still moving in one direction (backstroke) and you try and change that suddenly, (poor transition to forward stroke) things don't happen the way you want them to. You fall short of position, the ball draws only a few inches when you wanted a few feet. Or the ball may just stun completely.

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01-22-2019, 08:24 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Johnson View Post
I think (from past comments like this) Scott's saying it's physically impossible to not "pause" when the cue's movement changes from backward to forward. I get what he's saying, but I've never understood the relevance to an intentional pause.

pj
chgo
Quote:
Originally Posted by FranCrimi View Post
But some players never shift from backwards to forwards -- Like some Filipino players who use a continuous loop stroke. There, the arm is moving in one direction, but it's a circular or looping motion that brings the cue back around into the forward stroke without stopping or changing direction.
Yes, that's another disconnect I have with the "everybody pauses" idea. Even without the obviously loopy stroke I don't think the stick necessarily stops moving between backstroke and shot stroke.

Not a particularly important distinction, I don't think - just curious.

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01-22-2019, 11:50 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Johnson View Post
Yes, that's another disconnect I have with the "everybody pauses" idea. Even without the obviously loopy stroke I don't think the stick necessarily stops moving between backstroke and shot stroke.

Not a particularly important distinction, I don't think - just curious.

pj
chgo
Well I think technically, any change in direction involves a pause. To me, the length of the pause is what's relevant. When the pause reaches a certain length of time, then it negates the effect the back stroke has on the forward stroke.

Even though there are players who play great with a long pause, I think that there is some loss when that happens. I'm thinking that maybe there's a loss in finesse.
  
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01-23-2019, 05:40 AM

thanks to all so far that have responded .
i think its obvious with a pendulum type stroke whether you drop your elbow at the end or not there has to be some "pause" to change directions
my question had to do with the length of that pause
since different lengths would produce a different rhythm.
its seem the consensus is
"different strokes for different folks"
as an off topic comment
i think some players who have long pauses (i have been told this is true for buddy hall )
use the long pause to shift there eyes to the object ball before the forward stroke
so the length of the pause could also be for some based on their eye patterns
but that really should be another thread
  
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01-23-2019, 07:11 AM

In the golf swing, the club may pause at the top of the backswing while the player's body is in motion.

Even Allison--last time I looked--slowed down practice strokes more and more until the final stroke, so that her lengthy pause is still in a "personal rhythm" overall.


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01-23-2019, 07:47 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by FranCrimi View Post
But some players never shift from backwards to forwards -- Like some Filipino players who use a continuous loop stroke. There, the arm is moving in one direction, but it's a circular or looping motion that brings the cue back around into the forward stroke without stopping or changing direction.
Sorry Fran, but the cue will have to stop going backwards at some time in their swing.

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01-23-2019, 08:19 AM

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Originally Posted by goettlicher View Post
Sorry Fran, but the cue will have to stop going backwards at some time in their swing.

randyg
I think she is saying their stroke is like a clock. Never stopping. Instead of stopping it's dropping down into the forward swing. I get it.


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01-23-2019, 09:22 AM

What bothers me most about discussions on this subject is that most do not seem to realize that physically there is a huge difference between and actual pause -- when the motion is zero for more than an instant, say 0.1 seconds -- and when there is a reversal of direction. Those two are very different on the basis of physics and on the basis of physiology. To lump them together I find offensive.


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01-23-2019, 09:25 AM

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Originally Posted by Bob Jewett View Post
What bothers me most about discussions on this subject is that most do not seem to realize that physically there is a huge difference between and actual pause -- when the motion is zero for more than an instant, say 0.1 seconds -- and when there is a reversal of direction. Those two are very different on the basis of physics and on the basis of physiology. To lump them together I find offensive.
i am not sure why you chose "offensive" as your adjective.
t my thread was supposed to be more about the obvious pause vs the smooth transition
  
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