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Tin Man
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never seen it - 04-20-2019, 02:47 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisinNC View Post
I agree with most on this one, but what if the player continues running out a number of additional balls (with the 3-ball still remaining on the table) before the opponent finally calls him for shooting at the wrong ball? Kind of a sorry thing to do, but would make it much either for that player calling to the foul to have less balls to run out to win the game.

I would say if at any point after the second wrong ball is pocketed and the shooter realizes his mistake and then lines up to shoot at the 3-ball, by that point it should be too late for his opponent to call a foul on him. That is the risk he takes by not calling the foul on his opponent when he should have done so.
I have played all my life and have never seen anyone deliberately snooze a ball in hand foul in an attempt to let their opponent change the table layout.

Even if someone would attempt this, would it really be worth the risk of getting into a weird rules dispute when you could just take ball in hand on the 3 ball? I mean, I could see a guy who ran the entire table arguing for a re-rack or something. The rules might be on your side, but anytime you involve a ref or have to win an argument who knows what the outcome would be? I'd rather take my chances with ball in hand.

That said, personally I wouldn't have a problem with my opponent deliberately snoozing the first few fouls on me. As far as I'm concerned I deserve to lose once I make a mistake of that magnitude.

In the end though I've never seen it and don't expect I ever will.
  
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04-20-2019, 02:48 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tin Man View Post
I have played all my life and have never seen anyone deliberately snooze a ball in hand foul in an attempt to let their opponent change the table layout.

Even if someone would attempt this, would it really be worth the risk of getting into a weird rules dispute when you could just take ball in hand on the 3 ball? I mean, I could see a guy who ran the entire table arguing for a re-rack or something. The rules might be on your side, but anytime you involve a ref or have to win an argument who knows what the outcome would be? I'd rather take my chances with ball in hand.

That said, personally I wouldn't have a problem with my opponent deliberately snoozing the first few fouls on me. As far as I'm concerned I deserve to lose once I make a mistake of that magnitude.

In the end though I've never seen it and don't expect I ever will.
Refer to my previous post
  
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04-20-2019, 04:32 PM

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Originally Posted by TommyT View Post
Sh!t happens, maybe the player in the chair went to the bar and said keep shooting and when got back realized the foul.
Then he gets what he deserves. How can he "realize" anything he wasn't there to see? I just caromed or "slopped" a few balls in. The FIRST thing to learn in pool or anything else is to pay attention and watch the game you are in if it is for anything other than just biffing at balls.
I learned that the hard way early on, in a local tournament. I can still remember it like it was yesterday and it was back in the early 80's. I never forgot that lesson. Good thing too!! Stupid moments SHOULD haunt you!

Last edited by hurricane145; 04-20-2019 at 04:38 PM.
  
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04-20-2019, 04:32 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbb View Post
You were playing nine ball the three ball is on the table you do not realize it
you shoot the four ball and make it a
Your opponent does not say anything
you shoot the five ball and miss opponent says wait you had to shoot the three ball
what happens then
The foul slipped by on the 4. Another foul was committed when the opponent shot the 5 with the 3 still on the table. It doesn't matter that the first foul wasn't called or noticed, for whatever reason, but a foul was noticed and called when the guy shot the 5. That's ball in hand.


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04-20-2019, 04:44 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Andros View Post
Circa "back in the day", BIH on the 3. No idea how it would be played now. Probably depends where and tourney or not.
I thought 'back in the day' you'd just say you were pushing out?

  
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04-20-2019, 04:48 PM

This scenario happened to a friend of mine a few years back. He is slightly colorblind. We were playing a tournament with the tv colored ball set, the pastels, and he shot 2 or 3 balls in with the 2-ball still on the table before his opponent called a foul. My buddy said he thought the 2 was the 6, which was pocket on the break. His opponent called foul as soon as the cb hit the 5 ball. Then he took ball in hand and ran the 2, 7, 8 & 9. I don't think he planned it like that....he just must not have realized that the 2 was still on the table until he stood up for a better view.


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04-20-2019, 04:50 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbb View Post
You were playing nine ball the three ball is on the table you do not realize it
you shoot the four ball and make it a
Your opponent does not say anything
you shoot the five ball and miss opponent says wait you had to shoot the three ball
what happens then
Here's my analysis:

You committed two fouls. Your opponent gets BIH.

I assume there's no referee, so each player is referee for the shooting player. He would have had to warn you after two fouls that you're on two fouls, and the third consecutive foul would result in loss of game. But, he became the shooter when you missed.
  
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04-20-2019, 04:56 PM

The 4 is history and the foul is on the 5 according to APA and BCA rules.

I lost an MVP match in APA because of that exact thing. Opponent missed, I got up and shot the four, then the five, then the six, THEN my opponent called it on me. Pretty sure he knew it from the beginning.

APA rules state the foul must be called PRIOR to next shot, getting down a ball wouldn't do it, I read the rules as you must stroke the CB to complete the next shot. So, if I would have noticed and SHOT at the 3 then he couldn't have done anything about it.

Sort of a similar situation in tournament using BCA rules. Opponent missed and left me with the 8B (this is an 8B match) sitting IN the corner pocket and CB about 1.5' away, thought I heard him say "that's good", it was winner rack so I racked the balls and broke. Opponent THEN said he didn't give me the game. Since it was game one of a race to two we just started over. BCA rules state the foul must be called PRIOR to the next shot, just like APA but I was new and didn't know that. Had I known then what I know now I would have told him to pound sand. Sure, he didn't "give" me the game, so he says, but he didn't stop me from racking and breaking either. Oh, to top it off, 10 man tourney, $10 entry, $100 purse and they only paid to 2, I place 3rd and as mentioned I am new and have been kicking everyone's ass in league so I'm pretty sure they said F him, we're only paying to 2. I've never been in a tourney of that size that didn't pay 60/30/10.

Haven't played in that tournament since.
  
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04-20-2019, 05:00 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisinNC View Post
I agree with most on this one, but what if the player continues running out a number of additional balls (with the 3-ball still remaining on the table) before the opponent finally calls him for shooting at the wrong ball? Kind of a sorry thing to do, but would make it much either for that player calling to the foul to have less balls to run out to win the game.

I would say if at any point after the second wrong ball is pocketed and the shooter realizes his mistake and then lines up to shoot at the 3-ball, by that point it should be too late for his opponent to call a foul on him. That is the risk he takes by not calling the foul on his opponent when he should have done so.
See my previous post, getting down on the ball wouldn't cut it, you have to shoot the next shot.
  
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04-20-2019, 05:02 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by jviss View Post
Here's my analysis:

You committed two fouls. Your opponent gets BIH.

I assume there's no referee, so each player is referee for the shooting player. He would have had to warn you after two fouls that you're on two fouls, and the third consecutive foul would result in loss of game. But, he became the shooter when you missed.
The foul on the four was not called (It never happened).


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04-21-2019, 05:22 AM

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Originally Posted by jimmyco View Post
The foul on the four was not called (It never happened).
Good point, thanks. I wasn't thinking of that.
  
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