Please elaborate on the essence of the original Balabushka cues.

I'd like to hear about some more firsthand experiences with these cues.

PhilosopherKing said:

I've also heard that. Even so, you can still get a lot of cue for the money on the secondary market.

If a person wanted a new cue, I suppose Kenny Murrell would be a good choice.

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Did Kenny recover from the hurricane???

skip100 said:

I'd like to hear about some more firsthand experiences with these cues.

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My experience shooting with Balabushka is all of one cue. And it was solid. Super solid. But the butt was fat however, and the shaft had a lot of deflection. And it was heavy, as was common in that era.. My Tascarella I suppose plays similarly, but certainly feels a bit different in my hand because Pete doesn’t make the butt as thick as George did.

My Tascarella sings in my hands. I can imagine George’s work did the same thing in his era.

Freddie <~~~ that sweet singing ping

I knew a guy that had a plainer looking one he bought from George originally. He played with it regularly, let me hit a few with it. The hit was nothing spectacular but I imagine for it's time it was probably one of the best. Just technology these days plays so much of a part in the fit and finish of a cue that the older stuff, while classic and classy will never have a feel like the cuemakers of today.

JMO.

Cornerman said:

Did Kenny recover from the hurricane???

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He did not

Mike Johnson is one of the last of a dying breed.

I liked the Balabusha cues very much

Almost every great player at the time played with one

I played with the one buddy owned and heard him try to buy it back
I hit jack cooney's and it was very solid too

as i remember them they were the first to not be so big in the handle

840 at the joint and 120 at the butt

they set the standard

Tascarella copied them as close as he could and very succesful in my opinion
tascarella cues remind me of the Bushka hit and most people love tascarella cues

The ones I played weighed 20 or more and this added to the great feel

I have gone back to playing heavier,as have a bunch of filipinos

Gus also preferred 59 inches 21 ounces to play

I am surprised how many people who never hit one think they are average

In my opinion they are great cues,i have owned over 50 and really like them

I also had an ivory joint Balabushka that played great

I once had a friend say in passing, "you can't tell the difference between 720p and 1080p". Sure, he may be right if the source video quality was lower than 1080p, or if it was a 1080p video that captured 720p definition. Or if you look at both at an extremely large distance, you wouldn't be able to tell for sure. But I would say anyone could most certainly see a side by side comparison between a 1080p source video on 1080p monitor and vice versa on 720p, at a reasonable distance.

The same detail can be applied to cues, and it is possible some cue makers do think of that (spliced cues come to mind, with denser woods in the butt). My opinion is that firstly, the balance point needs to match the wingspan. A cue is certainly not one size fits all.. In order to push the discussion further, I would really like to see a weight distribution of a cue, not just its weight. That would be super nerdy, but would bring some super serious analysis to the table.

And sure, now you have forward weighted/back weighted camps (I have a back weighted preference, so Balabushka now appeals slightly more to me if I intend to pay for it). But at least we can say a cue is linearly increasing towards the tip, or asymptotic, or some other crazy distribution. I really think snooker cues are butt heavy and are closer to asymptotic than linear. A forward heavy cue is easier to push but harder to keep line, a back heavy cue is easy to point but harder to push. I personally like a foward break cue and a back heavy playing cue. You can observe weapons, an axe is front heavy and easy to delivery a heavy blow and a rapier is easy to aim, but does not have a high force impact.

The Balabushka from a Szamboti blank I played with was fantastic.
The older Titlist Balabushka hit good not great
In my opinion Balabushka's are very good playing cues, and his shafts were incredible

hang-the-9 said:

I am pretty sure the big surge in popularity came after The Color Of Money came out with it's Jossabushka and just kept climbing. Now it's on par with the early historical builds for anything. No one buys a Model T Ford to commute, but they are still valuable as examples of early cars and building methods that made America what it is.

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There was certainly a surge, but Balabushka was already the most collectible cue before the Color of Money came out. In case people didn’t realize.

When I asked Bob Runde about Balabushka cues,he made the following
observations

They were front weighted because of steel joint and the big screw
They were typically heavier than todays average cue ie about 20.5 oz

and they had nice shafts


all of these things go a long way toward a great hitting cue

I had Bob owen ,one of todays very best,make me a 59 inch,20.6,12.75
Bushka Tribute

It is so solid that I have really enjoyed playing with it.

I can not really remember what a balabushka feels like,
when I hit the Tascarella i thought I was having a flash back

Dennis Glenn told me that Tascarella is just about the same
Dennis owns over 150 Balabushka cues so he ought to know.

But truth be told he doesn't play much

I heard Buddy offer Dennis a new cadillac for his old Balabushka several years ago

I guess the essence of the cue is hard to put your finger on,the designs are classic to this day

I wish I had one again

I do have a south west on order that I hope to keep

As you guys know,I have had a lot of cues,great ones, and I should know
more than I do about them

In my opinion south west is the best cue ever made for playing

Balabushka,Sxamboti,Mottey,Tascarella,Scruggs,joss(early Billy) and Runde are in a top class

Today Bob Owen,Jerry Rauenzahn, and Runde can still be bought,and if a fella wanted
to hold on to one ,he would probably be very smart

PS I bought a beautiful Bob Runde with a white joint,guess who borrowed it the first day?

Guess who doesn't want to return it?

I forgot to mention Paul Drexler and Larry Vigus,these two cue makers are associated with cutting edge beauty,kinda pretty boy cues but in my opinion these fellas make great playing cues
at least as good as anybody I have mentioned

The day will come when these two might be considered like Balabushka is today

in my experience most Bushkas I've hit with are firm crisp hitters. there have been some duds but they are the exception from what I've tried. How much of the bad hitting ones can be due to glue failure, or other age related issues would be anybody's guess.

I currently feel very lucky to have the following 3, all different styles and all hit mighty sweet and feel great in my hands, balance, size etc.

I know a few guys who have bushkas as their everyday players and I say, why not?

GB was way ahead of his time and a true master. :thumbup:

best,
brian kc

cuesblues said:

The Balabushka from a Szamboti blank I played with was fantastic.
The older Titlist Balabushka hit good not great
In my opinion Balabushka's are very good playing cues, and his shafts were incredible

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From the ones I've played with the best hitting were those with Gus forearms. The Spain and Titlist blank cues weren't far off but the early to mid 60's cues had notably more deflection due to the thinner joint. I was told back then the players werent going out quite as wide from cueball center which would make deflection less of a factor.

In all, Georges fit and finish of the cues was superb and I agree the shafts were really nice. In those two aspects still better than a lot of current makers.

skins said:

From the ones I've played with the best hitting were those with Gus forearms. The Spain and Titlist blank cues weren't far off but the early to mid 60's cues had notably more deflection due to the thinner joint. I was told back then the players werent going out quite as wide from cueball center which would make deflection less of a factor.

In all, Georges fit and finish of the cues was superb and I agree the shafts were really nice. In those two aspects still better than a lot of current makers.

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I wish I knew how he finished those shafts
to stay smooth after so many years of play.
I've heard it was similar to the treatment on Gus & Barry Szamboti shafts.

cuesblues said:

I wish I knew how he finished those shafts
to stay smooth after so many years of play.
I've heard it was similar to the treatment on Gus & Barry Szamboti shafts.

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Good question, and I could only give an educated guess based on the preferred shaft finishing method of that era. Usually they used sanding sealer, slightly cut with a bit of lacquer thinner after the fine sanding. After the sanding sealer was dry, they usually went over the shaft with another round of whatever finest sandpaper there was, or very fine steel wool. Just a guess.

All the best,
WW

cuesblues said:

I wish I knew how he finished those shafts
to stay smooth after so many years of play.
I've heard it was similar to the treatment on Gus & Barry Szamboti shafts.

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There is so much BS on this thread that I just have to respond.

George used a sealer made by Randolf Products called sealer#89.

He used blanks from Brunswick, Spain, Szamboti. They made NO difference in how his cues played.

For the record I taught Gus how to make blanks over the phone.
Just ask Barry or his Mom.

What set George apart was his attention to detail and his willingness to try new ideas.

He was my model in cuemaking.

I owned two of his cues when I was hustling pool. The first I bought from Richie Ambrose and it was thin and not a very good playing cue. I sold it right away.

The second was just like a cue that Jimmy Moore had and was thicker and was a very good playing cue.

There is so much misinformation on AZ from people that have no idea what they are talking about that it overshadows those that do.

Bill Stroud

bstroud said:

There is so much BS on this thread that I just have to respond.

George used a sealer made by Randolf Products called sealer#89.

He used blanks from Brunswick, Spain, Szamboti. They made NO difference in how his cues played.

For the record I taught Gus how to make blanks over the phone.
Just ask Barry or his Mom.

What set George apart was his attention to detail and his willingness to try new ideas.

He was my model in cuemaking.

I owned two of his cues when I was hustling pool. The first I bought from Richie Ambrose and it was thin and not a very good playing cue. I sold it right away.

The second was just like a cue that Jimmy Moore had and was thicker and was a very good playing cue.

There is so much misinformation on AZ from people that have no idea what they are talking about that it overshadows those that do.

Bill Stroud

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Bill you say there is no difference between George's cues made with blanks by Brunswick, Burton, or Gus. I believe your experience is true. Maybe with all things being equal, the blank wouldnt matter.

That said I stand by what I said. I've played with 4 Gus blank Bushka's, at least 10 Spain blank, and about the same Titlist. TO ME, the ones made with Gus blanks "felt" better. Maybe it had to do with the dimensions of those cues. Maybe the shafts were different. Regardless that's how they felt to me in comparison.

My info was not meant to factualize anything but instead to share my experience with Georges cues.

For a while there I thought I was in the joke humor thread.... having handled quite a few of these cues, I feel the EARLY cues are definitely an acquired taste. The only one who would really like them is Sir Mix A Lot. They started really getting into a more standard measurement in the 67-68 time frame. He built cues that were wide ranging. He also wasn't stuck on one assembly method. He also wasn't the only game in town for custom cues, the fact that his cues were desired so much by champion caliber players is a testament to his attention for detail and playability.

You could still play with one today, if you're into that style of hit. If you play low D, its not the cue for you and you will NEVER appreciate it for its playability. As Fred stated, they were being collected BEFORE TCOM. So many elements that George used, are still in use today. Its called a BUSHKA ring for a reason.

How did George learn to build such amazing cues I wonder, since he didn't have access to "Ask the cuemaker" or the internet where everyone who can change a tip thinks they are a master craftsman. "Oh how do I cut a wrap groove???" 600 replies, and 12 internet chest poundings later...


No matter what number you believe to be made, 600, 1000, 1200.. that is all there is. Almost everyone use(d)(s) Bushka inlay pattern designs. Sure they may get cute and border a diamond in ivory or silver, but put 4 of them around the butt sleeve and guess what... you owe George.


Playability can be debated, influence and greatness cannot.


JV

bstroud said:

There is so much BS on this thread that I just have to respond.

George used a sealer made by Randolf Products called sealer#89.

He used blanks from Brunswick, Spain, Szamboti. They made NO difference in how his cues played.

For the record I taught Gus how to make blanks over the phone.
Just ask Barry or his Mom.

What set George apart was his attention to detail and his willingness to try new ideas.

He was my model in cuemaking.

I owned two of his cues when I was hustling pool. The first I bought from Richie Ambrose and it was thin and not a very good playing cue. I sold it right away.

The second was just like a cue that Jimmy Moore had and was thicker and was a very good playing cue.

There is so much misinformation on AZ from people that have no idea what they are talking about that it overshadows those that do.

Bill Stroud

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It doesn't make sense that the blank should make a difference I agree.
In fact some of my best playing cues have been Titlist conversions.
In this case the newer Gus blank cues seem to be a notch above the older Titlist cues.
I've never felt the blank made the difference especially the way he did things.
It's really a misnomer that needs a better explanation.
Like your cues from vintage to vintage things changed.

The Balabushka shafts I've seen and owned are pretty impressive.
I was told the treatment he applied was more of a process than just applying some sealer.

This reminds me of the sideway w Josswest thing when guys say the sideways w cues are the best.
I've owned and played with every vintage most people have not.

Peace
Ted

9 ball fan,

Like others hqve stated, they play like crapp compared to even the cheapest players brand cue.

Having said ^^^^^^^:

IMO, around 80% of ALL custom made cues more or less are not worth even half the "asking" price.

Im talking most of the BIG NAME cues.

If i came out and actually named the brands i would be blazed to hell and back. A lot of people have a ton of money in their collections and nobody wants to hear their collections are worthless but to a VERY small group that are passing away at a VERY FAST RATE because that NICHE market is old as hell and there aren't enough replacements to carry the NICHE market after the current owners are gone.

After their gone, there will be....slowly but SURELY a slow drip of cues to be more or less GIVEN AWAY compared to even today's lower than expected prices.

If your wondering about the 20% i didn't mention. Well, consider this:

How much is a junk car worth?

Answer: depending on hiw much it weighs.

Hiws that relate to topic?

Well, the value of the other 20% will be DIRECTLY tied to what materials they have inserted into them such as:

Diamonds, emeralds, gold, silver, ivory....etc...etc. You get the point.

No cue owner or even younger players kike that but, it wont matter cause 99% of players aren't willing to pay asking prices today. What do you expect other people to value a cue at later when they have zero interest in its history but only what it is....and thats a piece of wood unless it has stones etc...

Sad but true.

Bitttom line:
Yiu may never own one but there is a great chance your children or grandchildren may pick ine up at a yardsale.