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Corwyn_8
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02-26-2016, 12:46 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Bond View Post
Who's covering shaft and tip aerodynamics?
Surely we can't assume that it doesn't matter.
Or can we..
We can. Aerodynamics are going to be about 1/10,000 of the effect of the cue ball, just by considering density.

Thank you kindly.

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02-26-2016, 04:32 PM

And who is calculating the role that temperature plays?
We can't just assume, without proof, that it's of " no consequence".
  
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LAMas
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02-26-2016, 07:38 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Bond View Post
And who is calculating the role that temperature plays?
We can't just assume, without proof, that it's of " no consequence".
Humidity is a factor.
Do billiard tables have heaters?

Be well


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02-26-2016, 11:42 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Renfro View Post
Thanks you to you LAMas, JAL... Freddy and anyone else who raised a voice up from outside what was "proven science"... My tip work and testing while not showing the needed data led to intuitions that were brushed off regardless of the fact I was working with several cuemakers that are legendary, very intelligent and had came to similar observations over years of work....

Until the sport has money or technology gets cheap we will always be making assumptions and doing primitive tests that are not capable of dealing with all of the variable because they discard some variables as of no consequence....

I think you should reopen the discussion of the swoop stroke now that we know that the movement of the shaft matters. The swoop will load the shaft because of the force vector moving across the ball instead of down the line. What happens If you load something with a kick point???

Of course that will lead to actual discussion on the spring rate of different tips and the effect they could have by changing contact periods...

Synergy......
Thanks and kudos for you.

Synergy is the creation of a whole that is greater than the simple sum of its parts.

More for those still interested.

BALL IN MOTION
Once the ball has an initial linear and angular velocities, it begins to move across the table. After it leaves the tip of the cue, the only force acting on the cue ball is the force of friction from the felt. The purpose of this stage of the simulation is to continually update those velocity vectors according to this frictional force.

There are a couple important concepts that must be realized at this stage in the simulation. The first is that the ball is not always rolling. Immediately after it is struck, it slides along the felt for some period of time. How far it slides depends on its initial velocity and spin. The second is that the force of friction is not being applied through the ballís center of mass. It is actually being applied along the ballís perimeter, and so it becomes necessary to calculate the ballís perimeter speed.

Google


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02-26-2016, 11:46 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by LAMas View Post
Thanks and kudos for you.

Synergy is the creation of a whole that is greater than the simple sum of its parts.

More for those still interested.

BALL IN MOTION
Once the ball has an initial linear and angular velocities, it begins to move across the table. After it leaves the tip of the cue, the only force acting on the cue ball is the force of friction from the felt. The purpose of this stage of the simulation is to continually update those velocity vectors according to this frictional force.

There are a couple important concepts that must be realized at this stage in the simulation. The first is that the ball is not always rolling. Immediately after it is struck, it slides along the felt for some period of time. How far it slides depends on its initial velocity and spin. The second is that the force of friction is not being applied through the ball’s center of mass. It is actually being applied along the ball’s perimeter, and so it becomes necessary to calculate the ball’s perimeter speed.

Google
It is kind of like bowling. The ball slides, spins, and then turns over (depending upon how the cue ball is struck and the force applied)

It depends upon a bowler's release, hand position, follow through etc. it could be part of or all or a combination of all.
  
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02-27-2016, 12:04 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by HawaiianEye View Post
It is kind of like bowling. The ball slides, spins, and then turns over (depending upon how the cue ball is struck and the force applied)

It depends upon a bowler's release, hand position, follow through etc. it could be part of or all or a combination of all.
So true.
As some hold, what you do with your fingers on a bowling ball is similar to what the tip does at contact - duration and steering makes a difference.

Be well


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02-27-2016, 06:28 AM

Ahhh,

Star Trek!

To Boldly Go Where No Man Has Gone Before.

I think I am going to Enjoy the Journey.

Well... that may depend who the passengers are.

You're doing a Great Job.

Thank You for Your Efforts & You Stay Well,
Rick
  
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04-15-2016, 08:26 PM

See 1:08 in this vid to see the shaft bend away from the CB.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTdflfh4GwU


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04-16-2016, 07:45 AM

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Yes...

but do not forget & neglect the "inward" loading (bend) before the deflection.

That is what has been done in the past...

until this thread, I think.

We can not get down to one parameter in a complex occurrence...

As has basically been done in the past.

With the deflection also comes spin for the off center hit. A stiff shaft vs a flexible shaft with equal weight distribution. Which squirts the ball less & which spins the ball more & are they the same animal?

The collision on the 'soft' tipped cue stick (possibly with a flexible ferrule) with the ball has been 'treated' inappropriately as a hard substance collision for far too long when it is anything but that.


Best 2 Ya & Stay & Shoot Well,
Rick

Last edited by ENGLISH!; 04-16-2016 at 07:52 AM.
  
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09-28-2017, 11:19 PM

However... even without external resistance, there remains an internal resistance, by the object itself. An astronaut pushing a one-ton satellite out of the cargo bay of the space shuttle quickly finds that even though the satellite seems "weightless," it is not easily moved. Given a push by the astronaut, it will indeed start to move, but v-e-r-y v-e-r-y s-l o-w-l-y . It resists being put in motion, and once moving, it resists just as much being slowed down or stopped.

(In Newton's day, of course, no one had any experience in moving "weightless" satellites in orbit. However, people were quite familiar with the docking of ships and large boats. A heavy boat acts very much like a "weightless" satellite: the water supports its weight, but offers very little resistance to slow motion. And there too, when such a boat is pushed away from the dock, it starts moving very gradually: but once it is moving, it is just as hard to stop.)

Newton named that internal resistance inertia.

Obviously, inertia increases with the amount of matter. A bowling ball is harder to get moving and harder to stop than a hollow rubber ball of the same size.
The bowling ball is also heavier, that is, it is pulled downward with greater force: but weight is an effect of gravity, while inertia is not. The two seem to go together in some way,..

https://www-spof.gsfc.nasa.gov/stargaze/Snewton.htm


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09-29-2017, 12:16 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by LAMas View Post
However... even without external resistance, there remains an internal resistance, by the object itself. An astronaut pushing a one-ton satellite out of the cargo bay of the space shuttle quickly finds that even though the satellite seems "weightless," it is not easily moved. Given a push by the astronaut, it will indeed start to move, but v-e-r-y v-e-r-y s-l o-w-l-y . It resists being put in motion, and once moving, it resists just as much being slowed down or stopped.



(In Newton's day, of course, no one had any experience in moving "weightless" satellites in orbit. However, people were quite familiar with the docking of ships and large boats. A heavy boat acts very much like a "weightless" satellite: the water supports its weight, but offers very little resistance to slow motion. And there too, when such a boat is pushed away from the dock, it starts moving very gradually: but once it is moving, it is just as hard to stop.)



Newton named that internal resistance inertia.



Obviously, inertia increases with the amount of matter. A bowling ball is harder to get moving and harder to stop than a hollow rubber ball of the same size.

The bowling ball is also heavier, that is, it is pulled downward with greater force: but weight is an effect of gravity, while inertia is not. The two seem to go together in some way,..



https://www-spof.gsfc.nasa.gov/stargaze/Snewton.htm


Was there some point here?


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09-29-2017, 04:59 PM

It was said that at the instant that the fluff on the cue tip touches the CB, the CB starts to move - physics. The high speed pics don't show this. The CB appears to be stationary and is not moving to the right or rotating as the tip starts to compress.

Name:  tip.jpg
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A few held that the tip force must overcome the CB's inertia while others held that the CB is moving but imperceptibly. Others held hat it wasn't the inertia but the friction of the mass of the CB resting on the cloth.

Even in space objects have mass. And if they have mass, they have inertia. That is, an object in space resists changes in its state of motion. A force must be applied to set a stationary object in motion.

Is the CB moving imperceptibly when the fluff of the tip touches the CB and starts to compress?

Is the CB stationary until it's inertia is overcome by the compressing fluff on the tip?

Is it not the inertia of the CB but the friction between it and the cloth that resist the fluff of the tip?


dumluk

Last edited by LAMas; 09-29-2017 at 05:05 PM.
  
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