If they are the same to you, that's all that matters to your game. When I'm trying for "FF", I keep the cue tip as high as I can through out the CB. Normal high the tip lowers in a normal hybrid stroke and I don't get the bending.
Do You Use "Force Follow" in your games?
- Thread starter Bobkitty
- Start date
If they are the same to you, that's all that matters to your game. When I'm trying for "FF", I keep the cue tip as high as I can through out the CB. Normal high the tip lowers in a normal hybrid stroke and I don't get the bending.
Some, yes. I usually have just a hair of side on most of my hard follow shots though, unless you're talking about stun-run-through. I find that on high follow shots, that need to travel a bit, the angle usually needs a little bit of tweaking with side. I rarely come across forceful follow shots that I shoot with pure follow, other than perhaps some straight pool breakshots or secondary break shots.
I think that probably means you’re hitting the CB a little higher. Pool always boils down to some ordinary physical principle - it would be boring if it wasn’t so #%^*! hard.
pj
chgo
Follow
Force follow is a phrase similar to ‘power draw’. The word force is just an emphasis that means it’s being played with a lot of speed and powerful follow action. This could mean big arcs, acceleration after impact, doubling the rail, or just a lot of distance covered due to high ball. It doesn’t apply to one shot, but any powerful follow shot.
As for how to do it, it’s not complicated. Cue high enough to start the cue ball with a natural following ball, and hit it firm. It is important to cue high as the cue ball will be moving quickly to contact with the object ball and won’t pick up as much roll from cloth friction as we might expect on a softer shot. Still, there is no big advantage to going even higher with the tip. Mike Page made a great video demonstrating that it is essentially impossible, or at the lease totally impractical in game conditions, to generate ‘over spin’ (cue ball spinning with more follow than natural roll).
And yes, these come up frequently. Good tip placement and stroke accuracy is all that’s needed, just like any other shot.
Force follow is a phrase similar to ‘power draw’. The word force is just an emphasis that means it’s being played with a lot of speed and powerful follow action. This could mean big arcs, acceleration after impact, doubling the rail, or just a lot of distance covered due to high ball. It doesn’t apply to one shot, but any powerful follow shot.
As for how to do it, it’s not complicated. Cue high enough to start the cue ball with a natural following ball, and hit it firm. It is important to cue high as the cue ball will be moving quickly to contact with the object ball and won’t pick up as much roll from cloth friction as we might expect on a softer shot. Still, there is no big advantage to going even higher with the tip. Mike Page made a great video demonstrating that it is essentially impossible, or at the lease totally impractical in game conditions, to generate ‘over spin’ (cue ball spinning with more follow than natural roll).
And yes, these come up frequently. Good tip placement and stroke accuracy is all that’s needed, just like any other shot.
follow and force follow
Around here follow just gets the cue ball rolling sooner or even basically from the hit. When the cue ball hits the object ball the cue ball is rolling freely.
With force follow the cue ball is spinning faster than the forward motion, about like spinning the tires on a car. This transfers more spin to the object ball, more importantly, the cue ball can still be spinning faster than it is moving forward after impact with the object ball so that when it finds bite it moves around the table as desired. Different paths as has been noted too.
Hu
Around here follow just gets the cue ball rolling sooner or even basically from the hit. When the cue ball hits the object ball the cue ball is rolling freely.
With force follow the cue ball is spinning faster than the forward motion, about like spinning the tires on a car. This transfers more spin to the object ball, more importantly, the cue ball can still be spinning faster than it is moving forward after impact with the object ball so that when it finds bite it moves around the table as desired. Different paths as has been noted too.
Hu
When needed, yes.
My understanding of a force follow was striking the CB with very high English while the OB was near a rail thus getting the CB to stop in that area or depending on the angle run down a rail.
I used it the other night. I was against the rail and couldn't get any bottom english. I didn't trust the table enough to slow roll it so I hit it harder with top and the CB moved a couple of inches allowing me to get position on my next shot
I used it the other night. I was against the rail and couldn't get any bottom english. I didn't trust the table enough to slow roll it so I hit it harder with top and the CB moved a couple of inches allowing me to get position on my next shot
What I have not seen mentioned is using "force follow" in a shot where you want the object ball to be started off with underspin (for speed control) and then skid for some some distance.
Useful in a combination shot to create position of the first object ball for a later shot.
For example near the pocket after collision with the second object ball and not have the first object ball follow into the pocket and with the cueball moving to a new position for the next shot.
Useful in a combination shot to create position of the first object ball for a later shot.
For example near the pocket after collision with the second object ball and not have the first object ball follow into the pocket and with the cueball moving to a new position for the next shot.
Yes, when needed. Played 1P last night.. had two balls froze together
on the long rail near my pocket, shot another ball in, force follow to
break up the cluster... outsville.
One thing I learned for a force follow is keeping the cue as level
as possible with a higher bridge hand. I use an elevated closed bridge
when I have to stretch out to reach a shot.. an open bridge just doesn't
get the same action for me.
$.02
on the long rail near my pocket, shot another ball in, force follow to
break up the cluster... outsville.
One thing I learned for a force follow is keeping the cue as level
as possible with a higher bridge hand. I use an elevated closed bridge
when I have to stretch out to reach a shot.. an open bridge just doesn't
get the same action for me.
$.02
I do the same. Cue tip as high as possible and trying to keep it that way through the CB.
Yep, I concur. I’m doing drills this morning trying to work on that part of my game and yes the only way I can pull it off with any degree of accuracy is with an elevated closed bridge. I’m doing it using varying degrees of inside English and angles. It’s very challenging for me. Everything just has to perfect: speed, stroke etc. especially when there is considerable distance between the CB and OB and then trying to get position within a couple of inches of the target. I have a 2 inch white paper circle that I try to get the cue ball on when the dust settles on the shot. A good drill though!
You might find this video from Mike Page informative. He says it shows the CB can almost never "spin faster than the forward motion".
Is maximum topspin overspin?
pj
chgo
Or just do the simple test that Bob Byrne gave in one of his books. It is easy to do and does not require any extra equipment.
It is in fact possible to hit slightly higher than natural roll but the spin doesn't last for long and it is risky. You can get something like 12% overspin, depending. Not really useful compared to the danger.
I wish some of the people I have played were as smart as you guys
I wish some of the people I have played were as smart as you guys then they would have known they couldn't effectively use force follow! (grin)
Hu
I wish some of the people I have played were as smart as you guys then they would have known they couldn't effectively use force follow! (grin)
Hu
You seem to be saying that any remarkable follow shot must have overspin when it leaves the tip. That is, you are saying that that the bottom of the cue ball is actually moving back towards the shooter right after tip/ball contact.
Is that the point you are trying to make?
"Stun run through", actually.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAL3tqqUNQw
Art-sy Mikka Video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMLsJ-E8h-g
Or boring but most excellent amateur video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCv-Lu8oTxs
Everyone should be able to shoot a force follow shot, it comes up frequently in every game. In the first link you posted though, (getting from the 1 to the 2) I think the 3rd way he plays it (3 rails) is best way that will produce the most consistent results, but I would choose to just use a fair amount of right spin and hit it smooth rather than power through it like that. When I think of a "force follow" shot I'm picturing either going into balls or the cue ball having to travel a ways before it hits a rail. Not a ton of reason to hit a force follow shot when theres a rail right there to spin off of imo.