how are ya'll doing in league ?

Maniac said:

I am playing in an APA captain/co-captain tournament tomorrow at 3:00. Races to three on winners/losers sides, Masters rules (shortened version) so three games of 9-ball and two games of 8-ball (winner of lag determines which game is played first).

So...I do not play 9-ball much anymore and I play in an 8-ball league, so I started practicing 9-ball here at the house for the past few days. Let me tell you...it's been ugly. How ugly? I told my wife to have supper ready at the regular time because I'll probably be home to eat with her.

Maybe I'll bear down and play better in some actual competition. I have a bad habit of practicing badly anyway. I'll update y'all tomorrow evening.

Just in case anybody would like to know, I have a 4-0 record (if you don't include the win I got on a forfeit) this session. Been playing pretty good (8-ball at least).

Maniac

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So the Captain/Co-Captain tournament was as big a cluster-f*ck as I thought it would be. The LO waited 40 minutes past scheduled starting time to wait for some late arrivals. Then, he let players play on multiple teams if they were a C/CC on more than one team. This created a huge logistics problem with having to delay certain matches while waiting for some players to finish their current matches so they could go play on the other team. This created a LOT of tables just sitting there with nobody playing on them.

We drew a bye in the first round, got soundly beat in the next round, and then won our first match in the B-side. I wasn't disappointed with the way I shot. I had one head-slapper that may have won us a game in the A-side match, but overall not bad shooting.

So, now it is 8:00p.m. and we were told that it would be at least two hours before our next match (and all the while empty tables all around us...things were literally held up for the players playing on multiple teams). My Co-Captain asked me if maybe we should forfeit our next match and go home and said "Hell yes". So, as far as actual playing went we were 1-1 for the tournament. We both decided this would be our last C/CC tournament we ever play in.

In 8-ball league last night I beat another undefeated SL6 5-2 to raise my record to 5-0.

Y'all shoot well.

Maniac

I made the 3 ball one time in a league.

alstl said:

I made the 3 ball one time in a league.

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Yeah, and you probably sh*t that one in. :thumbup:

Maniac

Maniac said:

Yeah, and you probably sh*t that one in. :thumbup:

Maniac

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Calm down.

alstl said:

Calm down.

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I'm sitting in my reclining chair, feet propped up, heart beating about 50 BPM, just chillen'. I couldn't be any calmer if I was sound asleep.

You threw a wisecrack out on this thread and I followed it up with one of my own (except mine had a smiley attached). Did you read something into my post that got YOU unsettled?

Lighten up yourself, Francis. :groucho:

Maniac

Maniac said:

I'm sitting in my reclining chair, feet propped up, heart beating about 50 BPM, just chillen'. I couldn't be any calmer if I was sound asleep.

You threw a wisecrack out on this thread and I followed it up with one of my own (except mine had a smiley attached). Did you read something into my post that got YOU unsettled?

Lighten up yourself, Francis. :groucho:

Maniac

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Calm down.

alstl said:

Calm down.

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Yes boss...right away boss. I'm sorry mister boss man.

In other words...excuse the hell out of me for trying to be funny. I was just trying to turn your condescending post about league play into something humorous. I didn't mean to get your soiled panties all up in your butt crack.

I'm calm now. Thanks for the advice! I'll go and finish my nap now.


Maniac (no more smiley-face for you)

Won both my matches this week. Rackless in 8 ball, hil-hill in 9 ball (4 game spot is sometimes difficult to overcome). As a team not quite as well, though we went 4-1 in 8 ball, we lost 3-2 in 9 ball.

Tuesday night, my team was playing a team with one SL4 present, and the rest all SL3's. They've been struggling all session. Shoulda been a great night for my team, right?

We started off great, getting a 3-0 right out of the chute. Then it all went to crap, lost the next four matches, didn't get another point. Sigh....that's why you don't play games on paper. We were doing fairly well for the session, too, a good night would have likely put us in the top three.

Of course, being as we're going to Vegas shortly, I'm waiting for someone to make some wise-a$$ comment that we were laying down before heading out there. Which is the furthest thing from the truth...

A) We don't sandbag. We simply don't. We all want to win.

B) As noted earlier, we were getting to the top of the standings, and if we want to qualify to go again, we have to get to the top three.

and most importantly,
C) The one player on our team that has any possibility of going up didn't play.

Big sigh. Back at it next week. Playing two matches, our regularly scheduled one, and starting to play matches for the week that we're gonna be gone.

justadub said:

Tuesday night, my team was playing a team with one SL4 present, and the rest all SL3's. They've been struggling all session. Shoulda been a great night for my team, right?

We started off great, getting a 3-0 right out of the chute. Then it all went to crap, lost the next four matches, didn't get another point. Sigh....that's why you don't play games on paper. We were doing fairly well for the session, too, a good night would have likely put us in the top three.

Of course, being as we're going to Vegas shortly, I'm waiting for someone to make some wise-a$$ comment that we were laying down before heading out there. Which is the furthest thing from the truth...

A) We don't sandbag. We simply don't. We all want to win.

B) As noted earlier, we were getting to the top of the standings, and if we want to qualify to go again, we have to get to the top three.

and most importantly,
C) The one player on our team that has any possibility of going up didn't play.

Big sigh. Back at it next week. Playing two matches, our regularly scheduled one, and starting to play matches for the week that we're gonna be gone.

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Laying down? You guys? Never......
Perhaps a little preoccupied, but that's to be expected

Celophanewrap said:

Laying down? You guys? Never......
Perhaps a little preoccupied, but that's to be expected

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It's really kinda funny, in retrospect. Especially given the one player on our team that has a chance of going up didn't even play, lol...the rest of us are pretty set where we're at, for now anyway.

Been awhile since I updated (busy summer). Well in our first full session (spring) we simply dominated. Only lost two matches and handily won the big dawg title. Got dusted at LTC's, had to play with only 4 people due to handicap issues and folks being out of town. Personally I finished 9-2 with several rackless and a couple of B&R's (which is big for me on a 9 ft. table).

Summer session started fine, but then I had to miss 3 weeks due to work, and for whatever reason the wheels have fallen off! I am shooting ok (5 wins, 2 losses), but as a team we are getting steamrolled. I can't figure it out. EVERYONE on my team is getting terrible rolls, hanging the 8 ball on easy cut shots, scratching on the 8, knocking it in early....it's almost comical.

As a captain it is mind boggling...only thing I know to do is to keep shooting!

lorider said:

I lost 9 ball to a 7 tonight by a score of 55-43. Just 3 points shy of a win. I shot pretty good but my break sucked tonight. I broke dry every time but once and then I was hooked on the one...sigh. He ran the table on 2 of my breaks.. Those breaks were the major cause of my loss tonight.

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I don't agree with some of the APA's rules, but the absolute WORST one (IMHO) is that you cannot push-out after the break in 9-ball. I don't have enough fingers on my hands to count how many matches I've lost to skill level 7's,8's,and 9's because I had to attempt a near impossible kick on the lowest numbered ball after pocketing a ball on the break. You miss the kick, and you've just given away the whole rack and probably a big part of the next one (if not all of it).

That said, I will add that I'm pretty good at kicking, so the stupid rule has cost me more than I think it should even WITH my chances of hitting the intended ball.

The weird thing is, I had a LO tell me that the rule was like that to help the lower-skilled players, but if you really think it over, it does the very opposite.

Maniac

Maniac said:

I don't agree with some of the APA's rules, but the absolute WORST one (IMHO) is that you cannot push-out after the break in 9-ball. I don't have enough fingers on my hands to count how many matches I've lost to skill level 7's,8's,and 9's because I had to attempt a near impossible kick on the lowest numbered ball after pocketing a ball on the break. You miss the kick, and you've just given away the whole rack and probably a big part of the next one (if not all of it).

That said, I will add that I'm pretty good at kicking, so the stupid rule has cost me more than I think it should even WITH my chances of hitting the intended ball.

The weird thing is, I had a LO tell me that the rule was like that to help the lower-skilled players, but if you really think it over, it does the very opposite.

Maniac

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I'm pretty sure that the push-out would be a major advantage for the higher skilled players over the lower skilled players. Just my .02

And the rules arguments over that would be...crazy, to be polite.

justadub said:

I'm pretty sure that the push-out would be a major advantage for the higher skilled players over the lower skilled players. Just my .02

And the rules arguments over that would be...crazy, to be polite.

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Forcing a low level player to kick at a ball is worse than having someone explain to them what a push out is and how to play one. I doubt that anyone that does not know what a push out is would be any good at kicking, giving a good player ball in hand is much worse than giving them a tough shot. Given 5 minutes someone can learn the basics of a push out. There is a reason better players are better, why should they not have an advantage from knowing how to play? They still allow safety play right? That also would be an advantage for the better player, more so than a push out. The other players need to learn, not have rules dumbed down for them.

Don't know why APA rules people assume their players can't learn how to play with normal rules. Our junior league has 8 year olds that understand standard world rules, can't be that hard to teach.

hang-the-9 said:

Forcing a low level player to kick at a ball is worse than having someone explain to them what a push out is and how to play one. I doubt that anyone that does not know what a push out is would be any good at kicking, giving a good player ball in hand is much worse than giving them a tough shot. Given 5 minutes someone can learn the basics of a push out. There is a reason better players are better, why should they not have an advantage from knowing how to play? They still allow safety play right? That also would be an advantage for the better player, more so than a push out. The other players need to learn, not have rules dumbed down for them.

Don't know why APA rules people assume their players can't learn how to play with normal rules. Our junior league has 8 year olds that understand standard world rules, can't be that hard to teach.

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I'm obviously basing my opinion on personal experience, in my own little part of the world. There are enough people that struggle with simpler rules than push out. Explaining how it works and what they can do would be quite an experience, with some of the folks that we have playing. That's all that I meant. Nationwide, perhaps that isn't the case.

justadub said:

I'm obviously basing my opinion on personal experience, in my own little part of the world. There are enough people that struggle with simpler rules than push out. Explaining how it works and what they can do would be quite an experience, with some of the folks that we have playing. That's all that I meant. Nationwide, perhaps that isn't the case.

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The thing is, you teach a person the concept of the push-out rule and it's once and done. If you make a lower skill-leveled person continuously kick at balls, well, that's an ongoing thing that's going to cost that player and coach a lot of wasted timeouts over the course of time. How many times have you as a coach or your lower skill-leveled player called a timeout for advice on a kick shot just to have that player miss the intended ball by a mile-and-a-half anyway? That's a sure way to "give" away a lot of points when the better way for that player would have been to push-out to where they could have at least hit the ball and NOT given up ball-in-hand.

Just my opinion based on my experiences. Yours are obviously different. :smile:

Maniac

Maniac said:

The thing is, you teach a person the concept of the push-out rule and it's once and done. If you make a lower skill-leveled person continuously kick at balls, well, that's an ongoing thing that's going to cost that player and coach a lot of wasted timeouts over the course of time. How many times have you as a coach or your lower skill-leveled player called a timeout for advice on a kick shot just to have that player miss the intended ball by a mile-and-a-half anyway? That's a sure way to "give" away a lot of points when the better way for that player would have been to push-out to where they could have at least hit the ball and NOT given up ball-in-hand.

Just my opinion based on my experiences. Yours are obviously different. :smile:

Maniac

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The push out can be a pretty strategic play. You can teach the concept of a push, what
it's for, why it might be a good tool to have, but it's alot like the kick shot you mention -
it still has to be executed. You can give the best advice to a lower level player, or tell
them exactly how to shoot to hit a ball on a kick shot or how to keep fro scratching,
or how to shoot some other difficult shot, but in the end that lower level player still must
be the one to execute that shot and many of them just can't. They might look at the
table and see that they should play a push out, but to where? How do you get it there?
what will this accomplish, and I've seen a lower level player shoot a push out like this
far too many times: they will shoot the cue ball right into a safety spot forgetting that
the next hot can be given back. Taking a time out on the first shot after the break
probably isn't the soundest of decisions. The push, to accomplish it's intended purpose
requires experience and thought, the experience and thought of a player that might
understand the game more and better than a lower level player, there's far more to it
than just a free smack. Many lower level players just don't see the logic in considering
the good execution of a push out.