Panjo and Marketplace changes part 2

bobco729

bobco729
Silver Member
Great ideas Mike. Count me in. p.s. I think Kot has great ideas too. Just thought of this. If a person lists an item in the WFS section without a price either posted or requested by p.m. they should recieve one warning and then thread should be deleted.
"country" Bob
 
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CocoboloCowboy

Cowboys are my hero's
Silver Member
I just hit the Post A New Thread Button, SEVERAL TIMES, what I got looks like the OLD VERSION,


Before Panjo. It think a new way of accessing the For Sale Section, or just a fluke?

BTW posting Cue in categories is also a good idea,

Cues: $499 and under

Cues: $500 to $2499

Cues: $2500 and up

Cues: Jump, Break and Masse
 
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nick serdula

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
I am all for anything that improves this sight.

Thank you for your fine efforts here. Niko is a great communicator and very helpful.
Thanks again,
Nick :)
 

desi2960

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
maybe its just me

i did not know you had changed back, i just listed a cue the old way and it was much easier.

i am open to any way you can make it best for everyone, to me it seems the biggest problems are the dealers and flippers. i personally don't see anything wrong with NO BUMPING ------ ever
 

desi2960

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
just an observation

i placed a cue for sale this morning, and decided to check it out. i noticed there was a seller that had been a member 1 year that had sold about the same amount of cues that i have in 9 years.

he had 4 cues for sale, do you think this guy might be a cue dealer or flipper ?
 

azhousepro

Administrator
Staff member
Admin
Moderator
They would still only be able to bump every 48 hours.

Mike

Ok, you mentioned only letting the original poster bump the thread and that is a start. Will they only be able to bump every 48 hours or will it still be on an honor system? Some on here don't get it and won't do it unless the time limit is installed. I say no to the subforums. The same people are going to complain about no action if they have to go to several forums. Thanks for trying to keep it sane.
 

Kot_Bigemot

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
They would still only be able to bump every 48 hours.

Mike

I would suggest setup automatic warning to be sent to OP if bumped before 48 hrs. Not to ban but, to warn.
And I agree on other poster's suggestion - only OP can bump the post to the first page. Allow as many comments as people want, just make sure those comments do not bump the post to first page.
 

azhousepro

Administrator
Staff member
Admin
Moderator
Unfortunately, we have to choose one. We can't set it so that only OP posts bump the thread. So either we allow anyone to reply and every reply bumps it, or we only allow OP to reply and his posts bump it.

We can however, limit OP to only being able to post every 48 hours.

Mike


I would suggest setup automatic warning to be sent to OP if bumped before 48 hrs. Not to ban but, to warn.
And I agree on other poster's suggestion - only OP can bump the post to the first page. Allow as many comments as people want, just make sure those comments do not bump the post to first page.
 

Kot_Bigemot

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Unfortunately, we have to choose one. We can't set it so that only OP posts bump the thread. So either we allow anyone to reply and every reply bumps it, or we only allow OP to reply and his posts bump it.

We can however, limit OP to only being able to post every 48 hours.

Mike

In this case, I would allow just OP to post and bump. And yes, only once in 48 hrs.
And in my opinion it would be a more logical option for few reasons:
1. No more "nice cue GLWS" crap.
2. OP posts all contact info and that is all needed to negotiate or ask a question.
3. It will be less bumping overall.
 

poolfool1957

I know the pieces fit
Silver Member
OK gang, after reading the (constructive) feedback from users and mulling over some options that I think can still accomplish what we want to do here, I have removed the requirement to use Panjo for new items being posted.

Panjo is still there, partly because there are a number of items in there and I don't want the people who are selling those items to lose them in there. If you want to post an item in Panjo, you will have to click the "sell an item" button in there. If you want to just post an item on the forums, feel free.

Now for what I am thinking about doing...

We can limit the # of threads that someone can create in the for sale area based on their user type. I am leaning towards the following system:

Bronze Members can create 2 new threads in the wanted/for sale area every 30 days
Silver Members can create 5 new threads in the wanted/for sale area every 30 days
Gold Members can create 20 new threads in the wanted/for sale area every 30 days

I might consider a "business member" account type that has a much higher limit, if any.

It has been suggested that we only allow the original poster to reply to a thread. If buyers have questions, they can send them to the poster via pm. That change would do away with the bump scamming and then we could go back to showing the last active threads at the top of the forums. We would still only allow bumping every 48 hours with the possibility of limiting silver members to a bump every 72 hours. It is just a thought.

I am opening this up for discussion and I will read each and every post in this thread. I want actual constructive discussion though.

The first post that says "Change Bad. Make it like it used to be. You suck. Team USA is going to lose because of you" will end up taking a vacation from the forums. If you think I am talking about you here, you are right Coco.

Simple answer.....yes! We dont need to change the world or cost you more money. Keeping it simple will eliminate 80 percent of the problems we have encountered prior to Panjo.
Thanks for listening and working to improve a great website.
 

Mikey Town

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Personally, I'm not sure if I like the idea of sub-forums being created based on price.

If I have a cue that I am looking to trade, or sell, and I'd be looking for $1200 in trade value, but I'd be willing to accept $900 in cash, do I list it in the < 1K forum or the 1K-3K forum? I could also see this being confusing when negotiating. If someone lists a cue for $3,100, it doesn't mean that they won't be willing to negotiate down to $2,650, if the right cash offer comes in. I could see this being confusing for many transactions, and might possibly limit the exposure of certain cues that toe the line of these price point cut-offs.

I am a member of 5 other online forums (2 golf, 2 photography and 1 cars) that have similar Wanted/For Sale sections. One photography forum gets about the same amount of traffic that this WFS section gets and one golf forum gets far more traffic than this site. None of those forums have sub-categories for their WFS sections. They are all organized like this one currently is, and they run just fine.

That said, all of the information suggested in the OP looks really good and would go a long way to cleaning some things up.

Is there any way to make it so a thread is only bumped when OP posts in it? There have been times where someone other than the OP posted legitimate questions in a WFS thread that resulted in the addition of good product information, via the OP's reply. It would also be nice to add your $0.02 into a WFS thread about the looks of a cue, or vouch for a seller you've had a good experience with, without causing the thread to be bumped. If this isn't doable, however, I agree with only letting the OP reply to/bump a WFS thread.


Cheers,

Mike
 
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azhousepro

Administrator
Staff member
Admin
Moderator
There is no way that I am aware of to only make OP posts bump a thread. From what I know of the inner workings of vbulletin, it would not be very easy to do.

Mike

Personally, I'm not sure if I like the idea of sub-forums being created based on price.

If I have a cue that I am looking to trade, or sell, and I'd be looking for $1200 in trade value, but I'd be willing to accept $900 in cash, do I list it in the < 1K forum or the 1K-3K forum? I could also see this being confusing when negotiating. If someone lists a cue for $3,100, it doesn't mean that they won't be willing to negotiate down to $2,650, if the right cash offer comes in. I could see this being confusing for many transactions, and might possibly limit the exposure of certain cues that toe the line of these price point cut-offs.

I am a member of 5 other online forums (2 golf, 2 photography and 1 cars) that have similar Wanted/For Sale sections. One photography forum gets about the same amount of traffic that this WFS section gets and one golf forum gets far more traffic than this site. None of those forums have sub-categories for their WFS sections. They are all organized like this one currently is, and they run just fine.

That said, all of the information suggested in the OP looks really good and would go a long way to cleaning some things up.

Is there any way to make it so a thread is only bumped when OP posts in it? There have been times where someone other than the OP posted legitimate questions in a WFS thread that resulted in the addition of good product information, via the OP's reply. It would also be nice to add your $0.02 into a WFS thread about the looks of a cue, or vouch for a seller you've had a good experience with, without causing the thread to be bumped. If this isn't doable, however, I agree with only letting the OP bump a WFS thread.


Cheers,

Mike
 

Dockter

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Personally I feel you are being very generous to let anyone but gold members post fs threads. You get no cut and not even a membership fee. It's what 5 dollars to join for a month? If you want to sell something I don't think 5 dollars is too much of a listing fee and you can list multiple items then.

Just my .02. Thanks for all the work you guys put in!!

Edit: If you use something like Bump Preventer can people still post in it and it won't bump or does it prevent any posts until x amount of time has elapsed?
 
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Jim Baxter

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I just listed a cue in the f/sale section , and was not asked anything . Just like it used to be .

Now if I can bump in 48 hrs , I am happy .

If someone with a question cam PM me , I am happy .

No body can bump my thread to the 1st page but me , in 48 hrs , I am happy .

If someone asked me a question and I think that info needs to e added , I can edit the Post , with out bumping to 1st page , I am happy .

If the buy it now is GONE , I am happy .

I am not a fan of PaypaL . I don't want to be forced into using it .

If no one has noticed , I am Happy .
 

poolfool1957

I know the pieces fit
Silver Member
I just listed a cue in the f/sale section , and was not asked anything . Just like it used to be .

Now if I can bump in 48 hrs , I am happy .

If someone with a question cam PM me , I am happy .

No body can bump my thread to the 1st page but me , in 48 hrs , I am happy .

If someone asked me a question and I think that info needs to e added , I can edit the Post , with out bumping to 1st page , I am happy .

If the buy it now is GONE , I am happy .

I am not a fan of PaypaL . I don't want to be forced into using it .

If no one has noticed , I am Happy .

Exactly Jim.....nothing complicated, just a simple fix that hopefully doesn't cost Az more money.
 

Kot_Bigemot

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Exactly Jim.....nothing complicated, just a simple fix that hopefully doesn't cost Az more money.

And if it does, so what? Just build it into membership fee.
I think it is time to really start cranking on membership purchasing. You want to sell? Buy membership.
 

fk39673

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Compromise on subsection

Compromise on subsection

After reading other posts i think we need to at least separate the For Sale section into
at least 2 sections:

Cues:

Accessories, Instructional, etc

3 months ago. i had a bit of money that I ended spending on ebay. if the Sale Section was better organized, I am sure some Azer would have gotten some of my money............
 
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AtLarge

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
... Now for what I am thinking about doing...

A few thoughts:

• Thanks for removing the requirement to use Panjo. And I'm not sure whether Panjo required the use of PayPal (I haven't posted an item for sale recently), but I also hope we never have to use PayPal.

• The solution to the bumping problem suggested by many people (and the one I, too, like) is to have only posts by the OP (after some period of time) move the thread back to the top of the list of threads. In another thread you said "it is not doable easily in our forum software." So I read that as meaning that it could be done, but not without considerable effort. Perhaps, then, this could be a longer-term solution -- something you can't easily do now but could accomplish with some effort. I just don't like the easy solution of allowing only the OP to post in his thread. A lot of useful information has been posted in sales threads by other members than the OP. Expecting any such useful information to be posted by the OP if it is sent to him in a PM isn't realistic. A medium like newspaper classified ads does not allow for public comments, questions, etc. But an internet sales forum does make such posts possible, and I think they can serve useful purposes.

So if you continued to allow all posts to bump up the thread, how could "bump scamming" be better controlled? More focused moderation of this situation, with warnings and then bannings would do it, but that would require more time by the moderator(s). I have seen some people offering to help; would you be willing to add moderator(s) to do this? Perhaps asking for ideas from other members on this point would produce something else that would be useful. I'd actually rather continue to have "bump scamming" than to eliminate all posts by anyone except the OP.

• I like the idea of limiting the number of threads a member can start in x days, but I think 20 in 30 days is way too many. That's conducting a business. You mentioned the possibility of creating a "business member" account type; I'd think more than a few sales threads a month would throw someone into that category.

Alternatively, instead of limiting the number of threads that can be started in x days, how about a limit on the number that can be active at any one time. That would require some sort of indicator on the thread for the OP to be able to throw it into an archive (with additional posts no longer bumping it up) and remove it from the threads that count toward the limit on active threads. But if the item sold quickly, the OP could then always start another thread right away rather than waiting for some time period to expire.

• As for subforums, I'd like to avoid that as much as possible, whether by price or type of merchandise. I kind of like the "open bazaar" nature of what this forum has been. However, if you do it in some fashion, I'd suggest something like: (1) Cues Under $1,000, (2) Cues $1,000 and Over, (3) Cases, and (4) All Pool/Billiards Services and Equipment Other than Cues and Cases.
 
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