Getting Pool on the Right Track

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one stroke

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
pt109 said:
Golf is based on medal play usually...so a score is dependant somewhat on course ratings.
...if it was all match play, the course rating is not nearly as relevant...
...same as pool....tight, loose, big, small....I’ll bet on the best FargoRate.
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And me I will bet on what I know or feel at the time of the match . for instance betting Killer Filler on his run or Katchi .. its a nice addition to pool but its being over stated its worth to pool and pool being off track ,,
I totally disagree except at the pro level pool is ascending right now because pool goes as the economy goes and its rolling pretty good right now


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JC

JC

Coos Cues
jasonlaus said:
Considering I have a 10'er with 4 1/8 pockets, probably not. Lol

9'ers are NEVER gonna happen in bars, all Diamonds are NEVER gonna happen anywhere, all Diamonds with the same size pockets are NEVER going to happen, all Diamonds with the same Cloth is NEVER going to happen.

If this was for a Pro Tour, then I could easily agree that it should be a requirement.

I'm not saying it's a bad idea(I wish they were all the same) it's just never going to happen.
Jason
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But what is going to happen and it's a mathematical certainty, removing table size and conditions from the fargorate equation is that all games played between two players will be played with both players having identical equipment conditions.

Therefore standardizing equipment would not change fargorate one iota.

JC
 
jasonlaus

jasonlaus

Rep for Smorg
Silver Member
JC said:
But what is going to happen and it's a mathematical certainty, removing table size and conditions from the fargorate equation is that all games played between two players will be played with both players having identical equipment conditions.

Therefore standardizing equipment would not change fargorate one iota.

JC
Click to expand...

Never doubted that. Just agreed that it would be nice to see all players play on the same equipment - even though it will never happen.
Jason
 
iusedtoberich

iusedtoberich

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I don’t see any problem in our sport by not having the same table conditions at every event. I mean in general, not specific to Fargo.

Every single golf course in the world is different. American football grass surfaces are all different. Race track courses and surfaces are all different. Tennis surfaces are all different. None of these differences diminish any of those sports, or make a win on one condition any less meaningful than a win on another condition. About all that matters for “worth” of win in any sport is if the top contenders were in attendance competing alongside you.
 
J

jrctherake

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
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If equipment dont Matt then we should not hear EVEN ONE F...IN word about table, pockets...... AND situations such as actual game or exhibition or just playing at home when John S. or who ever does break Willie's record.

Not one word!!!!!!

You folks seem to want to have your cake and eat it tooooooo!
 
jasonlaus

jasonlaus

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Silver Member
jrctherake said:
*********************************************

If equipment dont Matt then we should not hear EVEN ONE F...IN word about table, pockets...... AND situations such as actual game or exhibition or just playing at home when John S. or who ever does break Willie's record.

Not one word!!!!!!

You folks seem to want to have your cake and eat it tooooooo!
Click to expand...

:thumbup::thumbup:
Jason
 
A

AtLarge

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
realkingcobra said:
If you bet on fargo rates alone on the last 16 matches of the world 9b championships, you'd have booked a loser. According to fargo rates, SVB should have won the title.
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If you had bet on the "Fargo Favorite" in each of the last 15 matches (Round of 16 players through Finals), and had bet the same amount in each of those 15 matches, you'd have come out considerably ahead.
 
O

one stroke

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
AtLarge said:
If you had bet on the "Fargo Favorite" in each of the last 15 matches (Round of 16 players through Finals), and had bet the same amount in each of those 15 matches, you'd have come out considerably ahead.
Click to expand...

Well your the man of numbers , let's see that



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A

AtLarge

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Gold Member
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one stroke said:
Well your the man of numbers , let's see that

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Click to expand...

The player with the higher FargoRate won (by a quick count) 11 of the last 15 matches. By the numbers I saw at the time, the only matches won by the player with the lower rating were Kazakis d. Feijen, Deuel d. Ko P-Y, Biado d. Wu J., and Biado d. SVB.
 
ShortBusRuss

ShortBusRuss

Short Bus Russ - C Player
Silver Member
AtLarge said:
The player with the higher FargoRate won (by a quick count) 11 of the last 15 matches. By the numbers I saw at the time, the only matches won by the player with the lower rating were Kazakis d. Feijen, Deuel d. Ko P-Y, Biado d. Wu J., and Biado d. SVB.
Click to expand...

And one must take into account that an alternating break format very much narrows the gap between players, as well. Get a 3-0 lead against a player in alternating breaks, and that is a MASSIVE advantage. And 3-0 is fairly easy to get if a few rolls go your way.

A 3-0 lead against Shane in a winner breaks format is not quite as definitive, because with Shane's control on the break, you are only 1-2 mistakes away from losing the match no matter the score.
 
O

one stroke

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
AtLarge said:
The player with the higher FargoRate won (by a quick count) 11 of the last 15 matches. By the numbers I saw at the time, the only matches won by the player with the lower rating were Kazakis d. Feijen, Deuel d. Ko P-Y, Biado d. Wu J., and Biado d. SVB.
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What about Filler or we talking something different

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336Robin

336Robin

Multiverse Operative
Silver Member
The only reason to play a single elimination match in my opinion is if the
entry is free or is being paid by a sponsor. There would have to be a ton of money
being made off of advertisements or viewing in order to justify that. All things
considered I have a problem believing the audience base is that big or could be made that big.

I'd have to see numbers of people willing to pay for streams or seating.

The other option is that every big event be on the scale of the SBE even then we need new blood
in the customer base. Members of The Pool League System need a reason to be involved. That's
our new life blood.


Bob Jewett said:
No, according to the probabilities predicted by the ratings, he had a reasonable chance to win, but it was fairly unlikely. You don't have to play too many matches as a 70% favorite before you lose one and are out in a single elimination format.

Now, if they had played races to 1000 each match, his odds of winning would have been better.
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realkingcobra said:
If you bet on fargo rates alone on the last 16 matches of the world 9b championships, you'd have booked a loser. According to fargo rates, SVB should have won the title.
Click to expand...

mikepage said:
We actually did this calculation. FargoRate predicted SVB had an 86% chance of losing.
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Last edited:
bioactive

bioactive

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
jrctherake said:
Look, it's not far fetched to want standardized tables.

Is there a weight limit on break cues? .... yes it is.

Is there a minimum length on jump cues?..... yes it is.

Not complicated to figure it out. Sure, a costly endeavor for some but it would still be nice to know all tables had certain "guidelines"..... other than just having 6 holes or str8 rails...

I hear people say "he/she ran "x" number of racks"..... lol.... and then find out it was on a toy table with 5.5 inch pockets.

That same person would then compare that "run" to another run on a table that is 2 feet longer and 4.25 inch pockets....

If you don't see my point, oh well..... you may be one of the people I've overheard talking.....

I hope not,

Rake
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Most establishments involved in amateur league play are constrained to only bar tables. How do you plan on standardizing?
 
mikepage

mikepage

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
jrctherake said:
*********************************************

If equipment dont Matt then we should not hear EVEN ONE F...IN word about table, pockets...... AND situations such as actual game or exhibition or just playing at home when John S. or who ever does break Willie's record.

Not one word!!!!!!

You folks seem to want to have your cake and eat it tooooooo!
Click to expand...

As you suggest, equipment matters quite a lot when you are talking about ABSOLUTE measures, such as

HIGH RUN
GAME PACKAGES (high runs of another sort)

If we want to compare these, then table size, pocket size, pocket facings geometry, and slickness of rail cloth all matter.

But we don't do that very often. Usually we are interested in RELATIVE performance, two people playing on the same equipment at the same time.

That doesn't mean the equipment issues go away, but it does make them a considerably smaller deal.
 
J

jrctherake

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
mikepage said:
As you suggest, equipment matters quite a lot when you are talking about ABSOLUTE measures, such as

HIGH RUN
GAME PACKAGES (high runs of another sort)

If we want to compare these, then table size, pocket size, pocket facings geometry, and slickness of rail cloth all matter.

But we don't do that very often. Usually we are interested in RELATIVE performance, two people playing on the same equipment at the same time.

That doesn't mean the equipment issues go away, but it does make them a considerably smaller deal.
Click to expand...

I already knew that you know all to well all the variables.

Only reason I mentioned it is because, as you know, there are a great number of people that consider themselves players that do not fully understand.... but they "think" they do.

I just felt the need to throw it out there.

I know it is basically a non issue in competition situations since both people are playing on the same table. The thing is, I hear talk about those exact things all the time from far less than good players and from really, really strong players alike.

We dont hear it on here very much. Lol.... it's easy to figure out why.
 
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