is the perfect stop shot the holy grail ??

bbb

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
to the professional instructors
if you had a student to mold
who never played pool (no bad habits )
would you focus on the the mechanics to produce the perfect stop shot first
and 1/ 2 /3 diamonds on command forward or back wards ??
then go on to the rest of the game ??
if not
how would you structure his/hers development ?
 

BilliardsAbout

BondFanEvents.com
Silver Member
to the professional instructors
if you had a student to mold
who never played pool (no bad habits )
would you focus on the the mechanics to produce the perfect stop shot first
and 1/ 2 /3 diamonds on command forward or back wards ??
then go on to the rest of the game ??
if not
how would you structure his/hers development ?

At the risk of causing controversy, I say stop shot technique is overrated in terms of the number of teaching materials I've seen emphasizing stop shots and connect-the-dot runs, just one way to think about patterns. Most shots aren't stop shots, and newbies need to learn other shape tools.

A good student of mine referred his spouse to me for lessons, she literally did not know whether to hit the balls with the pretty blue end or the black bumper of her cue stick. She took a ten lesson beginning billiards class with me and a follow-up lesson or two then led her team to Nationals the next year. We emphasized in that course stance first, stroking technique second, feel of the cue ball third, then pocketing balls then shape.
 

SFC9ball

JimBaker PBIA Instructor
Silver Member
The stop shot is used for more than just "Stopping the Ball", it is a huge factor when playing position, I.E. tangent line which helps us determine the path of the cue ball. Players don't use the stop shot enough. I see a lot of players getting into trouble because they are wanting to spin the cue ball to help pocket the ball or get position when they don't need too.
 

Ralph Kramden

BOOM!.. ZOOM!.. MOON!
Silver Member
At the risk of causing controversy, I say stop shot technique is overrated in terms of the number of teaching materials. I've seen emphasizing stop shots and... connect-the-dot runs... just one way to think about patterns. Most shots aren't stop shots, and newbies need to learn other shape tools.

A good student of mine referred his spouse to me for lessons, she literally did not know whether to hit the balls with the pretty blue end or the black bumper of her cue stick. She took a ten lesson beginning billiards class with me and a follow-up lesson or two then led her team to Nationals the next year. We emphasized in that course stance first, stroking technique second, feel of the cue ball third, then pocketing balls then shape.

Aren't all shots that follow the stun line stop shots? Stop shots coming off the CB at angles, always follow the tangent line.
IMO teaching how to stop a CB dead is important. That player can play shape off the stun line... Not just connect-the-dots.

.
Edit: bbb... I'm not an instructor
 
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FranCrimi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
to the professional instructors
if you had a student to mold
who never played pool (no bad habits )
would you focus on the the mechanics to produce the perfect stop shot first
and 1/ 2 /3 diamonds on command forward or back wards ??
then go on to the rest of the game ??
if not
how would you structure his/hers development ?

Where are you getting this from? Are you making it up or are you quoting someone?
 

sparkle84

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
to the professional instructors
if you had a student to mold
who never played pool (no bad habits )
would you focus on the the mechanics to produce the perfect stop shot first
and 1/ 2 /3 diamonds on command forward or back wards ??
then go on to the rest of the game ??
if not
how would you structure his/hers development ?

I'm going to ignore the above and focus on the question posed in the title of your thread.
"Is the perfect stop shot the holy grail?"
The answer is yes. It's the single most important shot in pool.
 

bbb

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Where are you getting this from? Are you making it up or are you quoting someone?
fran
i am not making it up or quoting someone
i am trying to reach a high level of pool playing even tho i started at a very old age at being serious about pool
so i am not talking about the kids at 4-12 who could hang out at a pool room and learn "naturally "
i try to be analytical about things
and i have come to the conclusion
if your stroke and alignment isnt true (and the perfect stop shot proves that,,jmho,,icbw.. )
all you can learn about pattern play
kicking systems
aiming systems
etc
dont matter if you cant hit where you aim with precision and with no unintentional spin as the foundation to build on
now that you know where i am coming from
whats your opinion on my thoughts ?
i respect what you have to say..:)
 

bbb

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
I'm going to ignore the above and focus on the question posed in the title of your thread.
"Is the perfect stop shot the holy grail?"
The answer is yes. It's the single most important shot in pool.

at least someone agrees with me....:thumbup:
 

BilliardsAbout

BondFanEvents.com
Silver Member
The stop shot is used for more than just "Stopping the Ball", it is a huge factor when playing position, I.E. tangent line which helps us determine the path of the cue ball. Players don't use the stop shot enough. I see a lot of players getting into trouble because they are wanting to spin the cue ball to help pocket the ball or get position when they don't need too.

Yes, you are correct. The tangent line is the soul of pool.

But I believe you are talking about sidespin and not vertical axis shots? Vertical axis play with the tangent line or choosing to cut or drive balls near the pockets for degrees of thick hit, etc. gives a lot of flexibility in shape. It's easier for many students to plot natural roll than to try to calculate tangent line force and vertical axis on a cut object ball.
 

FranCrimi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
fran
i am not making it up or quoting someone
i am trying to reach a high level of pool playing even tho i started at a very old age at being serious about pool
so i am not talking about the kids at 4-12 who could hang out at a pool room and learn "naturally "
i try to be analytical about things
and i have come to the conclusion
if your stroke and alignment isnt true (and the perfect stop shot proves that,,jmho,,icbw.. )
all you can learn about pattern play
kicking systems
aiming systems
etc
dont matter if you cant hit where you aim with precision and with no unintentional spin as the foundation to build on
now that you know where i am coming from
whats your opinion on my thoughts ?
i respect what you have to say..:)

Okay, I see where you're coming from now. I think the question you're really asking is if the stop shot is a good indication that your stroke and alignment are correct.

It's a step in the right direction, but it's far from fool-proof as an indicator. It just means you shoot stop shots pretty well --- but what happens when you are faced with other types of shots?

A player's fundamentals often change with their attitude towards a shot. That's how I can read a player's mind when he's at the table. I know by the way he walks around and by the way he approaches and strokes the shot how he feels about it and where his indecision is. It always shows up in his execution. It's my biggest tool for helping players that I work with.

Of course --- continue to shoot stop shots if you like --- it certainly won't hurt you. But more importantly, learn your tendencies at the table. You can start with the shots you don't like and practice them until you like them. Then move on to something else you don't like to do.

If you can start to make the shots you hate, then that's a good indicator that you're stance and stroke are coming together nicely.
 

measureman

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'm going to ignore the above and focus on the question posed in the title of your thread.
"Is the perfect stop shot the holy grail?"
The answer is yes. It's the single most important shot in pool.

the single most important shot is not dogging the winning ball.
 

bbb

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Okay, I see where you're coming from now. I think the question you're really asking is if the stop shot is a good indication that your stroke and alignment are correct.

It's a step in the right direction, but it's far from fool-proof as an indicator. It just means you shoot stop shots pretty well --- but what happens when you are faced with other types of shots?

A player's fundamentals often change with their attitude towards a shot. That's how I can read a player's mind when he's at the table. I know by the way he walks around and by the way he approaches and strokes the shot how he feels about it and where his indecision is. It always shows up in his execution. It's my biggest tool for helping players that I work with.

Of course --- continue to shoot stop shots if you like --- it certainly won't hurt you. But more importantly, learn your tendencies at the table. You can start with the shots you don't like and practice them until you like them. Then move on to something else you don't like to do.

If you can start to make the shots you hate, then that's a good indicator that you're stance and stroke are coming together nicely.
fran
thanks for the reply
of course you have to make your hate shots your loved ones
but
you cant work on "hate shots" and expect consistent results
unless you can hit the cue ball where you aim and hit the target you are aiming at ACCURATELY
jmho
icbw
your thoughts ??
 
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jrctherake

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
to the professional instructors
if you had a student to mold
who never played pool (no bad habits )
would you focus on the the mechanics to produce the perfect stop shot first
and 1/ 2 /3 diamonds on command forward or back wards ??
then go on to the rest of the game ??
if not
how would you structure his/hers development ?

No teacher here but this is what I've noticed:

When in dead stroke my stop shots stop dead........no matter the speed or distance.

When not in dead stroke stop shots always roll forward, back, left or right as little as an inch or spin a little, especially at greater distances.

I'm he'll when I'm well, but I'm sick a lot
 

greyghost

Coast to Coast
Silver Member
Ask yourself this

“Is it ok for the ball to not be exactly where I want it”

Or maybe

“If every shot could be a stop shot would that be good?”






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 

FranCrimi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
fran
thanks for the reply
of course you have to make your hate shots your loved ones
but
you cant work on "hate shots" and expect consistent results
unless you can hit the cue ball where you aim and hit the target you are aiming at ACCURATELY
jmho
icbw
your thoughts ??

I used to demonstrate stop shots to a class while standing on one foot with one leg on the table, using my toes as a bridge instead of my hand. Not kidding.

If you want good fundamentals, then work on your fundamentals. If you want to learn stop shots, then work on stop shots.
 

bbb

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
I used to demonstrate stop shots to a class while standing on one foot with one leg on the table, using my toes as a bridge instead of my hand. Not kidding.

If you want good fundamentals, then work on your fundamentals. If you want to learn stop shots, then work on stop shots.

is working on fundamentals different from working on stop shots??
if so
how ?
 

FranCrimi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
is working on fundamentals different from working on stop shots??
if so
how ?

The reason why I demonstrated shooting stop shots standing on one leg with the other on the table and using my toes as a bridge was to show the players that our bodies have an amazing way of compensating for our errors. But these compensations are still limitations. I certainly wouldn't be able to shoot a power draw shot with any kind of decent result that way.

Being able to shoot stop shots doesn't necessarily mean that you have good fundamentals. You may be compensating in ways that you don't even realize. You're going to have to do a whole lot more than just shoot stop shots to assure yourself that you have good fundamentals.
 
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