John Barton us open ban
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JC
Coos Cues
Never thought I would miss Chef Jeff.
He would be able to explain this to you eloquently.
JC
Systema Spetsnaz is a type of street fighting, developed or adapted I think, for their armed forces.
Ive bought a lot of stuff from Mike hes awesome to me
Omega does not make a Rugged(tm) model.
JB Cases makes a model that is called the Rugged, it is trademarked.
There will be ZERO dilution because we will NOT allow it to happen.
Sadly JB Case cannot prove those are knockoffs if the competitor doesn’t advertise his cases as a JB Case. The competition can definitely say it’s an hommage design. How many times have we seen this done. Cues, cases and many everyday household items.
The typical dive watch made from various companies like Rolex, Omega and Seiko are not scrutinized.
Nothing more. Enjoy your JB Case and Acme. They are essentially the same just like enjoy your watches.
Looks the same. Enjoy both.
You don't know what a knockoff is.
You are confusing the term knockoff and counterfeit. The legal term you are looking for is confusion. If a normal consumer can be confused and think that an item is another brand item based on the appearance then one of those items is a knockoff of the other one.
And in fact you have made the point clearly by your statement that they are essentially the same. You have by that statement alone proved that the knockoff is exactly that while seemingly trying to prove the opposite.
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No, Jay Flowers was not the originator of the tooled leather case. There were many before him doing tooled leather cases. He was the first to MARKET a tooled leather case in that style. Dennis Swift was making cases before him.
I don't make copies of any case. IF I ever make a version of any style that was being made before I came along then I give credit to those who came before me and I make improvements to the style so that my addition to the genre is better than what came before.
A knockoff is simply a crappy version of something else. Any praise it gets is BECAUSE someone else came up with the look and the knockoff adopts the look but cuts corners and doesn't adopt the quality.
Any person with eyes can see that the cases MH brought out are KNOCKOFFS of JB Cases. Now that said, there is no law in the USA that says you cannot copy the look of something else. It's perfectly legal to make knockoffs within certain parameters.
It is NOT legal to lie about those knockoffs with false advertising in order to attempt to make consumers believe that they are as good as the original if they are provably inferior.
I don't have any problem with knockoffs. For 29 years I have been coming up with designs which have all been knocked off. Some of the knockoffs are so ridiculous that you would have to see it to appreciate the hilarity. I am at the point the most copied case maker ever in my opinion.
And yes there are elements from other cases in my cases. Just like there are elements in every cue that were present in something that came before. But we all understand quite well when something new comes along that no one did before, when someone takes those elements and reshapes them, redefines them, makes a new design that supercedes all that came before. And we understand when someone comes after that and knocks off that design.
Someone here mentioned the argument I had with Jack. Do any of you even remember what it was about? I don't think so.
Some person posted up a case that was a mashup of a Justis and an Instroke and was bragging about how happy they were. That person was then criticized for getting a knockoff of a Justis. Jack chimed in and asked if anyone had information on the maker.
I said, in that thread, that I thought it was crazy to see so many people going off about the Instroke/Justis mashup when not a single word was said about the Whitten knockoffs. (And STILL you all don't mention the abundance of dead nuts Whitten knockoffs out there). I wrote a bit about knockoffs and original design and what was what.
Someone sent jack a private message containing a private message between myself and a dealer 8 MONTHS prior, where the dealer was asking about vinyl knockoffs of Justis cases and if he could get them from us. Rather than tell that dealer that the knockoffs were already available through J&J, I said that maybe we (Sterling Gaming) might bring them in sometime in the future but for the time being he could get good cases from Sterling Gaming.
Jack then posted that message in a thread called Design Thief Exposed. And many of you gleefully jumped on that bandwagon accusing me of stealing Jack's designs even though I had NOTHING to do with the mashup that started the "hunt" nor was I making or importing the then and still EXISTING vinyl knockoffs of Justis cases sold by J&J.
Point being that you can HATE on me all you want but the truth is that all I have ever done in this business is make and deliver BETTER cases than what existed before I started making cases. And now I continue to deliver cases that are better than what is out there. How does one do this? By studying everything out there and taking what works and leaving the rest. By doing small improvements CONSTANTLY. By listening to needs and finding solutions.
A pool cue case isn't about appearance. It is a tool that should be designed from the inside out for PROTECTION first and utility and durability and comfort. Those of you who think it's about appearance deserve to get crap knockoffs that can damage your cue.
I sat in a showroom in China, the same one Jack sat in, surrounded by 40 years of case making represented in all of the knockoffs of every major case design. Basically 40 years of flat out ripping off original work by creating poor quality knockoffs. And you all ate them up. Did you support Joe Porper or did you own a knockoff? I will bet that almost every one of you bought and owned a knockoff of a Porper case at some point. Where are your tears for Joe?
But wait, did Joe originate the foam core case or was it Bob Meucci? How about Ron Thomas, did he originate the styles he made or did he use styles that others were doing before him? Where is your criticism?
The criticism is reserved 100% for me because I dared to speak up on these topics. Any maker that doesn't make waves is considered to be "good" and any maker that stands up and says the truth is considered to be a troublemaker and one which needs to be disciplined.
That's exactly how it is. The way I see it you all would rather be lied to and have your egos stroked instead of hearing the truth. You bring up Jay Flowers to knock me even though you know FULL WELL what they story is because it's been discussed here dozens of times with dozens of pictures and stories to back up the claims. In fact if it were not for me then it's a near certainty that we would not have found out that the Nora Van Horn was the actual maker of J.E.F. Q Cases.
So yes, I know the history of case making pretty well at this point. Not all of it of course but a significant part. And I know the difference between an original design and a knockoff. Many of you are confused about that which is normal because it's not something you really think about unless you're a designer/maker.
Once you have spent a lot of time figuring out how to make something and you come up with a version that is unique to you then you will understand how it feels when someone else makes a crappy version of what you made and pretends like it is as good or better.
Most of you will never have to deal with that because you are not makers. You haven't invested any significant time, effort or money into building something that is appreciated by your customers only to see some other person simply take your look, make a cheapo version and THEN lie about it as if it's actually a well made piece. Most of you are consumers and not makers. So for a lot of you any two things that look similar enough are thought to be similar enough to get the job done. I get that.
But because you have that notion it doesn't automatically come true. When I bought my first J.E.F. Q Case I naively thought it MUST protect better than my Porper because it looked better and why would the maker not put in the same or better protection than my Porper? I found out the hard way in the form of a broken cue that in fact the $400 leather case didn't protect as well as my $150 Porper. I had to become a maker to get the type of case I wanted to protect my cues. And once I started making cases I started to see the amount of crap pushed into the market by unscrupulous sellers who don't care about your equipment. They only care about volume and acceptable loss. As long as they stay under 3% complaint that they have to exchange product to resolve they consider a product to be a success.
But you don't see the broken cues, the cues that rattle, the cues that get dings and scratches because of poor construction. You don't see behind the curtain because you don't know what to look for and because you think that one is as good as the other.
Counterfeit or Knockoff.
The Fender Stratocaster has been an iconic guitar for over 50 years. There have been many guitar makers that have made their own version of the strat design. Most recently, has been PRS (Paul Reed Smith). The most noticeable difference is the design of the headstock, but show any layperson the body and they'd think they were the same guitars. John Mayer who in his early years played a Fender, made the switch some time ago over to PRS, and actually had a signature series created for him.
So look at the images below of the Fender (top) and PRS (bottom), and tell me is the PRS a counterfeit or a knockoff.
The Fender Stratocaster has been an iconic guitar for over 50 years. There have been many guitar makers that have made their own version of the strat design. Most recently, has been PRS (Paul Reed Smith). The most noticeable difference is the design of the headstock, but show any layperson the body and they'd think they were the same guitars. John Mayer who in his early years played a Fender, made the switch some time ago over to PRS, and actually had a signature series created for him.
So look at the images below of the Fender (top) and PRS (bottom), and tell me is the PRS a counterfeit or a knockoff.
The top case is clearly marked as an Acme case, so what's the problem here? I just don't get it John. The quality of your cases stand for themselves and pool players have enough sense to know what they are buying and why. Some may chose to go for the less expensive option for purely monetary reasons and I don't blame them for that.
Chinese manufactures have been copying designer merchandise for decades now (as you well know) and there is no way to stop this practice, other than intercepting the shipments at the ports of entry. I'm sure there are counterfeit copies of your cases being made and sold in China with your name and logo on them. Why not go after the real counterfeiters and leave Mike alone to do his thing. He doesn't appear to be hurting your business model, at least not as much as you are doing by giving him all this free publicity.
I would advise you that this thread has become the best free advertising Acme has ever gotten on here. He should be thanking you.
I am with Jay on this one.
Couldn't help myself: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHDO78QfLbE Hey JB, just picture MH in the flying suit.
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Counterfeit or Knockoff.
The Fender Stratocaster has been an iconic guitar for over 50 years. There have been many guitar makers that have made their own version of the strat design. Most recently, has been PRS (Paul Reed Smith). The most noticeable difference is the design of the headstock, but show any layperson the body and they'd think they were the same guitars. John Mayer who in his early years played a Fender, made the switch some time ago over to PRS, and actually had a signature series created for him.
So look at the images below of the Fender (top) and PRS (bottom), and tell me is the PRS a counterfeit or a knockoff.
Knockoff-A counterfeit would have 'Fender' on it.
I thnk John's focus isn't on the use of his "look". He may not be happy about it but he prabably figured it would happen at some point. I think what John is saying is he thinks it illegal (underhanded at minimum) to advertise such product as having a retail price eqaul to what his cases sell for THEN claiming them to be "on sale" when in fact the price those look alike cases are selling for is their actual normal price and never regularly sold for the retail price they advertised.
I think he thinks it makes it look like their product is on parallel to his and that they're giving the customer a "deal". I think believes their product is substandard and never did or could have retailed for what they claim.
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I wouldn't be at all shocked to find out that John is somehow involved in both case companies, and is creating an alternative brand to compete against himself. Tissot and Omega come to mind. Made by the same company, catering to two very different markets.
I for one had never heard of Acme until now...
Bait? He stole my **CAR**, drove it to Vegas, then lost it in a pool game. THEN, he CALLED ME and asked for air fare home!!!
So i sent it. Cause he's a nice guy... most of the time. Plus he's my friend and what are friends for. I ended up with a new car. Cost me 25K, but hey... want a little, pay a little. C'est la vie.
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