Experiments in looking at the cueball while delivering the stroke.

Michael Andros

tiny balls, GIANT pockets
Silver Member
Me and a buddy used to shoot spot shots, for a buck a shot, on a 12' snooker table set up with tight golf pockets. Ahhh the slow days.

I miss slow days at pool halls. I made a couple hundred one time because the guys in the room had no idea why the end of a tape measure moves. :thumbup:

Yupperz. I can't tell you how many times, on slow days, we would bet who could run out the door first from the back wall. Or who could throw a rock the farthest in the field across the street ( a Mc Donald's now, for the last 35 years or so ). And it was also on slow days that I was introduced to all those pool games no one these days has ever even HEARD of ( cribbage, cowboy pool, pill pool, etc, etc... )!

Yeah... slow days in the room. Thanks for reminding me, Chuck.
 

markjames

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Sure. My eyes at the point of cuestick cueball
contact are focused on the leather tip.

Where it will end, and stopping it there.

Post shot cue tip stillness is the goal,
And i must say i am getting much better.
Not just better, much better.
 

DrCue'sProtege

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Sure. My eyes at the point of cuestick cueball
contact are focused on the leather tip.

Where it will end, and stopping it there.

Post shot cue tip stillness is the goal,
And i must say i am getting much better.
Not just better, much better.

In other words, you are now a CUE BALL LAST player.

Correct?
 

Boxcar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
You only get a microsecond to determine the outcome of each and every shot. That moment occurs when the tip strikes the cue ball.
 

slach

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
If you have a very straight, repeatable stroke and can hit the spot you want on the cue ball (after a couple warm-up strokes) without looking at it then you'll usually want to be looking at the object ball last. You need to really develop your coordination, muscle memory and fundamentals to do this, takes many hours for most.

I find myself looking at the cue ball about half the time, depends on the shot and how I'm stroking that day. Some days my stroke's all over the place, others it's pretty well on, hard to explain why.
 

Scott Lee

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Steve...You obviously know what's correct (OB last for most shots), but you don't follow that line yourself...hence the 2nd sentence about being "all over the place". Train yourself to look at the OB before you start your final backswing. You'll get a better result. The four shots to look at the CB last...break, kick, masse' and jump shots. :thumbup:

Scott Lee
Director, SPF National Pool School Tour

If you have a very straight, repeatable stroke and can hit the spot you want on the cue ball (after a couple warm-up strokes) without looking at it then you'll usually want to be looking at the object ball last. You need to really develop your coordination, muscle memory and fundamentals to do this, takes many hours for most.

I find myself looking at the cue ball about half the time, depends on the shot and how I'm stroking that day. Some days my stroke's all over the place, others it's pretty well on, hard to explain why.
 

Pete

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Steve...You obviously know what's correct (OB last for most shots), but you don't follow that line yourself...hence the 2nd sentence about being "all over the place". Train yourself to look at the OB before you start your final backswing. You'll get a better result. The four shots to look at the CB last...break, kick, masse' and jump shots. :thumbup:

Scott Lee
Director, SPF National Pool School Tour


Tried with the break, scary. Never tried with kicking but will try. Masse' yep and the jump either the cue ball or a spot I'm trying to jump over...
 

Scott Lee

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Actually, Boxcar, the outcome has already been decided before you pull the cuestick back, the last time, along with the proper PEP and other SPF variables. If not, chances of success are greatly reduced. If you haven't made your mind up, once your bridge hand hits the cloth, within 8-12 seconds, stand back up and decide what you're going to do, before you stand back down on the shotline.

Scott Lee
Director, SPF National Pool School Tour

You only get a microsecond to determine the outcome of each and every shot. That moment occurs when the tip strikes the cue ball.
 

Scott Lee

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Pete...Try breaking with your eyes closed (close them before you start your final backswing, and keep them closed, and your bridge hand on the table, until after the CB strikes the rack.) Then open your eyes, and survey the results (both in terms of CB control, and break results). That will show you how accurate (or not) your transition is, and whether you're tightening up on the break like almost everybody out there (not necessary). If you're still getting inconsistent results, try backing off on how hard you're trying to hit the break. Speed, timing and cue weight are the key ingredients for a better break. :grin:

For accurate kicking, use an upright stripe as your CB, and focus on the spot on the rail diamond, or cushion you're trying the hit, during that part of your PEP. Switch your eyes to the CB before you start your final backswing, and trust your stroke. Adjust speed and/or spin as necessary.

Scott Lee
Director, SPF National Pool School Tour

Tried with the break, scary. Never tried with kicking but will try. Masse' yep and the jump either the cue ball or a spot I'm trying to jump over...
 

atlas333

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Cue balls last?

Last October I got a GCIII and started playing again after a 20 year layoff. Last spring I started using CBL and my play improved greatly. Now recently after finding this thread about a month ago I am trying both ways and am still determining what is best for me but so far is seems like some shots are better for each technique. As I am still experimenting I am not certain which will be my predominant shot.
I have now read the whole thread and thank Greg for such a useful thread and hope to see more interesting threads here where people a civil with each other.
 

JazzyJeff87

AzB Plutonium Member
Silver Member
Steve...You obviously know what's correct (OB last for most shots), but you don't follow that line yourself...hence the 2nd sentence about being "all over the place". Train yourself to look at the OB before you start your final backswing. You'll get a better result. The four shots to look at the CB last...break, kick, masse' and jump shots. :thumbup:

Scott Lee
Director, SPF National Pool School Tour

I have never tried looking at cue ball on the break but that’s interesting. I will try the eyes closed too.

The other time I look at the cue ball last is when I’m totally tree topped. I get all lined up and then stare dead at the spot I need to hit on the CB to avoid that awful “TWRANK” sound. Very satisfying shots to make.
 

slach

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Steve...You obviously know what's correct (OB last for most shots), but you don't follow that line yourself...hence the 2nd sentence about being "all over the place". Train yourself to look at the OB before you start your final backswing. You'll get a better result. The four shots to look at the CB last...break, kick, masse' and jump shots. :thumbup:

Scott Lee
Director, SPF National Pool School Tour

Object ball last isn't quite 'settled science'. Had a lesson with another highly regarded instructor/coach/multi Mosconi cup player who told me 'you look at cue ball last'. My opinion is that most pro level players have their stroke so well tuned that they can hit the cue ball right on the dot without looking as they finish (they may not even consciously know where they're looking). Obviously the goal is to have such a stroke. But for the rest of us (perhaps lacking the natural talent, coordination and practice time) some compromise could improve results.
 

ShootingArts

Smorg is giving St Peter the 7!
Gold Member
Silver Member
video doesn't always match audio!

Object ball last isn't quite 'settled science'. Had a lesson with another highly regarded instructor/coach/multi Mosconi cup player who told me 'you look at cue ball last'. My opinion is that most pro level players have their stroke so well tuned that they can hit the cue ball right on the dot without looking as they finish (they may not even consciously know where they're looking). Obviously the goal is to have such a stroke. But for the rest of us (perhaps lacking the natural talent, coordination and practice time) some compromise could improve results.



Been a few years but I deliberately chased down video to watch eyes of pro's as they shot. More than a few that "look at the object ball last" have their eyes stray to the cue ball as the stick starts forward for the last time. They genuinely aren't aware of this but the video tells the story.

If I was inclined to debate I might say very precise shots look at the cue ball last, shots you need a long free stroke, look at the object ball last, or even something well out past the object ball. I look wherever is convenient, cue ball, object ball, any point on the line or extended line between the balls, or let my eyes unlock into a thousand yard stare and look at nothing at all. Closing my eyes works too. What I have never cared for is "look away" shooting because this pulls muscles around and deliberately or not has to be compensated for. I don't want that compensation to sneak into my regular stroke.

For a power break I don't look at cue ball last, may not even look at the object ball last. Looking past the table to a higher point often suited me fine. More of a one pocket player now so back to looking at the rack breaking one pocket. I confirm hit or miss by how the cue ball comes off of the rack. I consider the one pocket break one of the most precise shots in pool.

No doubt I have posted a time or two before in this old thread, too many posts to hunt through!

Hu
 

evergruven

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I generally like cue ball last
not sure that it's "better"
but I naturally do it, and like it fine
no hard rule there tho
agree that each shot is unique
and should be treated as such
 

Pete

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Pete...Try breaking with your eyes closed (close them before you start your final backswing, and keep them closed, and your bridge hand on the table, until after the CB strikes the rack.) Then open your eyes, and survey the results (both in terms of CB control, and break results). That will show you how accurate (or not) your transition is, and whether you're tightening up on the break like almost everybody out there (not necessary). If you're still getting inconsistent results, try backing off on how hard you're trying to hit the break. Speed, timing and cue weight are the key ingredients for a better break. :grin:

For accurate kicking, use an upright stripe as your CB, and focus on the spot on the rail diamond, or cushion you're trying the hit, during that part of your PEP. Switch your eyes to the CB before you start your final backswing, and trust your stroke. Adjust speed and/or spin as necessary.

Scott Lee
Director, SPF National Pool School Tour
Scary Scott (I tend to Pop N Squat style break), but I'll give it a try. I know Max Emberle Talks about the cue ball last. And I do the eyes closed shooting sometimes too (mostly out of fear of how bad I'll miss lol).

Thanks Scott...
 

ShootingArts

Smorg is giving St Peter the 7!
Gold Member
Silver Member
yeah I think so too!

Mark Williams eyes closed potting.
https://youtu.be/Pobc0qDwgz8
The first shot looks to be object ball last.;)



Definitely looked at the object ball last on that first shot, but it was an easy shot!(grin)

I had to watch the next video with Ronnie O too. Huge brass ones to ask what the prize for 147 was when he had eight points. Had he not gotten out then he would have looked pretty silly! Of course his opponent can't help having a bit of an "Oh crap!" look on his face.

Great to see you in the thread 435 posts after you started it!

Hu
 

gregcantrall

Center Ball
Silver Member
Great to see you in the thread 435 posts after you started it!

Hu

January 21, 2013 Was my opening post.

Today there is no doubt that it works for me. It is one part of the overall routine. Finding the shot line then establish a solid shooting platform that gives mechanical advantage to the delivery system, is first. Focusing on point of contact and path through the ball goes with a precision delivery system. Getting it all makes for FUN!

I am all about looking for every way to improve. Lessons not only accelerated my improvements but gave me something I may never have accomplished on my own.
I noticed improvements in three students of John Schmidt after only a few lessons. They all said that John teaches cue ball last. Hmm could be a good time to hit him up for lessons.
 

HawaiianEye

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'm sure I USUALLY look at the cue ball last.

If you are lined up right with the cue ball and the object and have a straight stroke, then the cue ball is your only target.

If you hit it "correctly", all the other things should fall into place.
 
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