Radial Tap (standard fit)

I have been on the list at Atlas and Prathers for over a month and no stock from either as of today, I might try to make my own using a stainless radial pin and cutoff wheel. I called both this morning and they have no idea when they will recieve more.--Leonard

SpitzCues said:

I looking to purchase a standard fit radial tap. Atlas has been out of stock for a while, and they are not sure when more are coming . Anybody got an extra? Suggestions? Thanks.

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You could mill a groove in the pin itself, just like a regular tap and see if it works for you. Center drill the back end and braze a crossbar to act as a T-handle. That would give you a good fit. Hope this helps.

Actually you need the standard and the undersize taps ... Undersize tap for shaft ... sorry I don't know where they are available ...

HoskenCues said:

You could mill a groove in the pin itself, just like a regular tap and see if it works for you. Center drill the back end and braze a crossbar to act as a T-handle. That would give you a good fit. Hope this helps.

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Just milling flutes in a pin will not turn it into a tap.
It will still be just a pin with some slots in it. It won't cut a proper thread without a 'cutting' leading edge. This is where knowing a tool grinder can be helpful. Only the first few threads of a tap do the actual cutting. The rest of the threads on the tap merely act as a guide.
Even after you've got your cutting edge ground on the pin/tap, you've still got a 'tap' that is dangerously under-size. Dangerous in the sense that you risk splitting the shaft when connecting the cue. There is NO clearance.
I'd be very surprised if you even got the shaft to go on without locking-up.

Patent....

Hey guys, I was wondering...
What if Uni-Loc* Corp. of America (For what ever reason),
does not plan to make another "Production Run"?
Their site has patent #'s listed.. (Only #'s).
What if they don't make the taps..
Can or would they leave the industry with all the Radial Pin Cues
and extra pins for future cues (And the shafts that are sold as "aftermarket")?
The Law says they can.. it's their Product (Patented)..

Alton < Wants both Standard and Undersize..

I did ask Eric at Atlas... He'll ask Richard W..
Atlas sells the Uni'Loc* Radial connecting screw that has a square groove running down the length..
Might tweak it to get the cutting edge angle that K.J. mentioned.
long time ago, I did use a small endmill. milling downward on the face, off-setting the Mill so the radius creates a
cutting edge/relief, But, like K.J. also said, it will not leave clearence..
Was good for cleaning out the existing threads..

KJ Cues said:

Just milling flutes in a pin will not turn it into a tap.
It will still be just a pin with some slots in it. It won't cut a proper thread without a 'cutting' leading edge. This is where knowing a tool grinder can be helpful. Only the first few threads of a tap do the actual cutting. The rest of the threads on the tap merely act as a guide.
Even after you've got your cutting edge ground on the pin/tap, you've still got a 'tap' that is dangerously under-size. Dangerous in the sense that you risk splitting the shaft when connecting the cue. There is NO clearance.
I'd be very surprised if you even got the shaft to go on without locking-up.

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Thanks for the clarification KJ.
I have done this method with a 3/8-10 pin, I did modify it, chamfered to have a cutting edge, used tool steel for that and it worked good for me since i had difficulty having a fit i like with the standard tap out there. I have not done this with a radial pin though.

I have been a auto tech for 38 years and have ground many taps for the bastard sizes with a cutoff wheel and the proper size bolt to thread metal and I promise you this you can make a great tap with very little machinery that will work great. When the first cars we had to work on with metric threads got into our repair facillity's we didn't have the taps or axcess to them so we made them and finished the job or lost a customer to the dealerships. Threads to be cut into wood are a lot easier than threads into steel or cast iron in a hard to get to engine compartment I assure you KJ.--Leonard

poolcuemaster said:

I have been a auto tech for 38 years and have ground many taps for the bastard sizes with a cutoff wheel and the proper size bolt to thread metal and I promise you this you can make a great tap with very little machinery that will work great. When the first cars we had to work on with metric threads got into our repair facillity's we didn't have the taps or axcess to them so we made them and finished the job or lost a customer to the dealerships. Threads to be cut into wood are a lot easier than threads into steel or cast iron in a hard to get to engine compartment I assure you KJ.--Leonard

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Well, there you have it, straight from the poolcuemaster.
A bolt and a cut-off wheel and you've got a tap.
Now that we know that threads are easier cut in wood than in steel or cast iron, why all the fuss? Get the cut-off wheel and get busy.

Kinda makes you wonder why Atlas & Prather charge what they do for a specialty tap. I guess they don't realize how easy they are to make.

Thank you Leonard, I feel assured. Your post is indeed enlightening.

KJ Cues said:

Well, there you have it, straight from the poolcuemaster.
A bolt and a cut-off wheel and you've got a tap.
Now that we know that threads are easier cut in wood than in steel or cast iron, why all the fuss? Get the cut-off wheel and get busy.

Kinda makes you wonder why Atlas & Prather charge what they do for a specialty tap. I guess they don't realize how easy they are to make.

Thank you Leonard, I feel assured. Your post is indeed enlightening.

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KJ would you like a little wager that it can't be done to work good if so I'm up for it, I love a challenge and never give up.--Leonard

I don't know if you can make a tap out of the radial pin.
If you could, I think it'd still be short.
You'll have to grind down the bottom threads if you want to chuck up on that .
Those threads are already about .360 od.

Maybe this place could make up some for you guys http://www.widell.com/

Widell

I have special taps from Widell.

The 5/16" x 14, 3/8" x 10, 11, 12 and 14.. and .348" x 11.5 Thds.
I orderd them when these sizes wern't available (Mid 90's)..

I even ordered a Radial Split die from them.I used it to make my Delrin Radial Joint Protectors..

Widell told me (at that time) I had to buy them thru J & L Industries, Widell's distributors.
I could not buy direct, although I did all "Leg work", and J&L did nothing but collect money.
..(Extra money lost for a useless middleman)
Couldn't go direct then.. Maybe now?
Wes Hunter got his Taps and Split Dies made at Royal Machine..(?)

I've heard and thought the Radial wasn't patentable..
So, somebody going chance-um?..
Or, make plenty and sell them to us.
It's cheaper when ordering in quantity..
The problem is, they gotta make it "Per Sample"..
Or doe's Uni-Loc* show/offer the specs?

poolcuemaster said:

KJ would you like a little wager that it can't be done to work good if so I'm up for it, I love a challenge and never give up.--Leonard

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Leonard,

I've made many taps and know that it can be done, in a crude sense.
What I think you are failing to understand is that we're not talking about a 3/8x16 or a 12x1.5mm.
The thread in question is one of the most precise ever made.
Uni-Loc calls it the 'Radial'. The CNC industry calls it the 'ball-screw'. The medical industry calls it the 'Surgical pin'. It's all the same design. The pitch and diameter may change but the design is the same.

Bill Stroud and Paul Costain have brought a 'version' of this same thread to the cue industry to provide a more precise fit-up for the joint of a cue. It seems to be working rather well. There is nothing crude about it.

You are certainly welcome to tap your Radial pin shafts with whatever homemade tap you choose. You may put some threads in the hole but I seriously doubt that the fit will be anywhere close to what the originators of this pin had intended. If you feel that is good enough for your clients then go for it. I'll stay with the tap that was intended for this pin.

If you feel that your 'fabbed' tap is equally as good, equally precise, then forget the one-time wager with me and fire-up the cut-off wheel.
Apparently there's a void in the supply chain at the moment so there's money to be made.

Per the recommendation of a few prominent cue makers on here, I bought the Atlas undersized tap about 6 months ago and love it. It is TIGHT on the shaft and loose for the pin insertion. Plus it is in stock. Game over.

SpitzCues said:

DanO, How could the undersize tap be loose for the pin installation?

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The threads on a genuine radial pin or an exact copy have threads that are .010 smaller in diameter at the butt end of the pin than at the shaft end for glue clearance.

Dick

The regular tap really has not much use.
The bottom threads of the barreled pin is only .360 and less than 5/16 minor.
Only useful for the A-joint if you use all thread radial for connecting screw.
http://prathercue.com/
Prather has them now.

What they said...

I think Dick told me to run it in few times with wax if your shaft is too tight. I believe Eric told me that a Q-tip with linseed oil seals it nicely and allows for a smooth pin insert into the shaft. If you bore both sides your run out it practically nothing.

I know this is an old thread but...

I own a josey cue and had Bob Danielson made a shaft for it.

The shaft threads on uncomfortably tight, the original josey shaft has a larger hole, so I’m assuming Bob used the undersized tap?

The radial pin Keith uses doesn’t appear to be the uniloc radial pin, so I’m not sure if this is part of the issue as well? Any insight on this would be appreciated.

Are the threads of the the undersized tap the same diameter as the standard fit? Is it possible to just bore the hole out to the same size Keith made his hole and maintain the threads or will the shaft need to be retapped as well?

Thanks for your time.