Great News For Tournament Operators

Paul Schofield

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The 9th tournament using the No Conflict Rules was held over the weekend in Erie PA. The rules take hours off the time it takes to run an event. The rules have proven to be acceptable. The tournament fills easily and turns quite a few players away. We had 64 players, $7000 calcautta, and a $3000 prize fund, with a $35 entry fee. Full Results

The ball on the break is not worth keeping. Getting rid of it saves time. The players get along much better and the tournament is more fun.

A combination of the No Conflict Rules with a new Modified Double Elimination format resulted in a completed event in 13 hours and 15 minutes (race to 7, race to 6). The finals even went the extra race to 6.
 
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AtLarge

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Paul, please explain how your modified double elimination format works.
 

JC

Coos Cues
That's OK; I just thought a brief description here would be helpful.

Or just post it here in detail. You made a point to say how good it works, why not just share it with everyone?

Edit: This sentence in the no conflict rule confused me "The breaker is not required to make a ball on the break in order to keep his turn at the table." Does that mean the breaker continues even if the break is dry as long as two balls cross midfield?
 
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sfleinen

14.1 & One Pocket Addict
Gold Member
Silver Member
Or just post it here in detail. You made a point to say how good it works, why not just share it with everyone?

That's right. Was this an advertisement for No Conflict rules, or was it instead an advertisement for Paul's event in Erie, PA?

-Sean
 

Paul Schofield

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Edit: This sentence in the no conflict rule confused me "The breaker is not required to make a ball on the break in order to keep his turn at the table." Does that mean the breaker continues even if the break is dry as long as two balls cross midfield?

Yup...and no one complains...and not one argument in over 10,000 racks in 9 events. I can live with it. My tournaments move.

I don't know how I can explain the Modified Double Elimination Chart on this forum. I am willing to share it with any tournament operator that might want to try it.

One player from Florida cracked me up. He studied the chart for the longest time and anounced that it was magic.
 
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Paul Schofield

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Here is some food for thought:

In a standard 64 man double elimination format, after the first round, 32 players need to win 6 straight matches to capture the event. The other 32 players have to win 12 straight matches.

In a standard 128 man double elimination format, after the first round, 64 players need to win 7 straight matches to capture the event. The other 64 players have to win 14 straight matches.

Is this equitable?
 

Jaden

"no buds chill"
Silver Member
I have to say, I really like those rules.

I think that it is a really good set of rules there. Simple, very little room for the majority types of complaints that usually generate in a tourney. I really like them...

Jaden
 

daddyfats

Registered
Here's my guess at a modified double elimination.
After each round in the winners bracket, the losers drop into a bracket that is all their own. Nobody ever drops into their bracket. This creates a new bracket after each winners bracket round which avoids feeding the same losers bracket continually with new players, which is why they end up playing so many times in a standard format.

Here's a 16 player example to save typing!

After the first round there are two 8 player brackets.
After the second round, there are three 4 player brackets.
After the third round, there are four 2 player brackets.
After the fourth round, there are 4 players left, three of which have one loss.
They play out from here.
If I'm correct, an undefeated winner would play one less game than the second place finisher. If the eventual winner had two win twice, the two finalists would have played the same amount of games.

Is this how it's done?
 

rlw

...............
Silver Member
the last time I played in a Modified Double Elimination format everybody will play a least twice but not everybody will get to lose twice. If you lose your first match you go in the losers bracket then lose again your done. If I remember correctly in the winners bracket if you make it to the third round undefeated and lose your done.
 

Paul Schofield

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I think that it is a really good set of rules there. Simple, very little room for the majority types of complaints that usually generate in a tourney. I really like them...

Jaden


Thank you. I will just let the results speak for themselves. There are no problems with the No Conflict Rules. There is an overflow of players and the events move fast.

rhw & daddyfats: The formats you described do not resemble the format I developed and am using.
 
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JC

Coos Cues
Yup...and no one complains...and not one argument in over 10,000 racks in 9 events. I can live with it. My tournaments move.

I don't know how I can explain the Modified Double Elimination Chart on this forum. I am willing to share it with any tournament operator that might want to try it.

One player from Florida cracked me up. He studied the chart for the longest time and anounced that it was magic.

If you can explain the modified double elimination chart to league operators who contact you then you can explain it here. Quit being so cutesy and just spit it out. No one likes people telling secrets around them. If it takes this much work to find out about it then the luster of it fades pretty fast. Last chance dude. Explain it or quit talking about it.
 
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Paul Schofield

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I would also like to add that the DE Format is not a good one but it is the best we have. Many tournament promoters do not like DE because of all its inequities.
 

spanky79

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
So are you going to explain it or not. Sounds like you are just hear to toot your own horn. If you really wanted to come on here and help people then do it. Explain the damn thing or move on.
 
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gsm1sw

Banger by birth
Gold Member
Silver Member
If you can explain the modified double elimination chart to league operators who contact you then you can explain it here. Quit being so cutesy and just spit it out. No one likes people telling secrets around them. If it takes this much work to find out about it then the luster of it fades pretty fast. Last chance dude. Explain it or quit talking about it.

lighten up people, it's not like he has info on how to get into some super secret club. If you really want the info just PM him. How much WORK is that.
 

spanky79

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
lighten up people, it's not like he has info on how to get into some super secret club. If you really want the info just PM him. How much WORK is that.

I can care less and will never use it, but why come on and continue to toot your own horn while acting like you are here to give info and then just keep beating around the bush.
 

JC

Coos Cues
lighten up people, it's not like he has info on how to get into some super secret club. If you really want the info just PM him. How much WORK is that.

At this point, slightly more work than it's worth.:yeah:
 

Paul Schofield

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I am sending out (UPS) a bunch of sample tournament charts tomorrow to those who requested. I also have a request from Mark Griffin. Mark will receive his chart via courier at his Diamond booth at the expo.

The new DE chart saves significant time. Even still, I will say emphatically that nothing, that's NOTHING saves more time than the No Conflict Rules. I ran tournaments more than 20 years ago and they were torture. I swore them off. I went to the US Open a few years ago and was reminded why I don't run events. I devised the No Conflict Rules and decided to try again. The rules changed the whole atmosphere of the tournament. I have run 9 tournaments since. I now enjoy the tournaments and look forward to having the next one.

We are doing recreation. This is supposed to be fun.
 
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lorider

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
the last time I played in a Modified Double Elimination format everybody will play a least twice but not everybody will get to lose twice. If you lose your first match you go in the losers bracket then lose again your done. If I remember correctly in the winners bracket if you make it to the third round undefeated and lose your done.

that is the way the apa regionals is set up.

the 1st day has a losers bracket where you can play again. the 2nd day is single elimination.
 
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