FargoRate Top Woman in the World is 679. Why?

Jude Rosenstock

Jude Rosenstock

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Why the top international women are significantly higher than American women is a tough question for a bunch of American men to answer. The truth is, I've never spent any time in any of the countries these great women hail from and have no idea what may distinguish them. I do know many American women on the pro tour seem to begin playing pool in adulthood which seems to be a significant distinguishing characteristic from American men. My favorite example is Jennifer Barretta, who started playing pool at the age of 30.

I believe (and this is just my opinion), something about American culture remains terribly patriarchal. Like, it's so deeply rooted, we don't even see it. Perhaps, someone could ask Jennifer about her thoughts. She has not only risen to be one of the top women in the country but has also traveled all over the world and competed against the very best. She might have some valuable insights that could answer this question.
 
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DecentShot

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Jude Rosenstock said:
Why the top international women are significantly higher than American women is a tough question for a bunch of American men to answer. The truth is, I've never spent any time in any of the countries these great women hail from and have no idea what may distinguish them. I do know many American women on the pro tour seem to begin playing pool in adulthood which seems to be a significant distinguishing characteristic from American men. My favorite example is Jennifer Barretta, who started playing pool at the age of 30.

I believe (and this is just my opinion), something about American culture remains terribly patriarchal. Like, it's so deeply rooted, we don't even see it. Perhaps, someone could ask Jennifer about her thoughts. She has not only risen to be one of the top women in the country but has also traveled all over the world and competed against the very best. She might have some valuable insights that could answer this question.
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Ironically, I think its the fitness model style of touring pro that the international women typically shy away from and are better for it. It comes down to are you worried about training in the gym for your IG followers or training to run out? Practically speaking I think American women pool players play too much on 7 footers.
 
F

FeelDaShot

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
DecentShot said:
I think part of the perception is based on Kristina's willingness to put herself out there by gambling with the boys. I'm not saying she is Jeanette, but it is a little like saying in 2001 "I can't believe The Black Widow isn't ranked higher." I do think she can get there, but she hasn't even lost her baby fat, give her game some time.
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For me, it has nothing to do with gambling against men. Actually, I've never seen her play any well known men. I'm referring to her results against women only.

Maybe I only hear about the good results which is why my perception is skewed? But I'm pretty sure she's won (or is winning) the euro tour. I've seen her beat Jasmin Ouschan a few times so I expected her to be higher than Jasmin at least. She's also at the top of the 2019 AZB Moneylist (36% higher than 2nd place Siming Chen). But I know a lot of tournaments aren't reported to AZB.
 
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Jude Rosenstock

Jude Rosenstock

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
DecentShot said:
Ironically, I think its the fitness model style of touring pro that the international women typically shy away from and are better for it. It comes down to are you worried about training in the gym for your IG followers or training to run out? Practically speaking I think American women pool players play too much on 7 footers.
Click to expand...

Jennifer Barretta was a competitive body builder before IG was a thing and there are many professional players, both men and women, who believe staying in shape gives them a competitive edge.

Regarding the 7-foot thing, I'm curious which players you're referring to. All of the American women on the pro tour I know routinely practice and compete on 9-foot tables.
 
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DecentShot

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
FeelDaShot said:
For me, it has nothing to do with gambling against men. Actually, I've never seen her play any well known men. I'm referring to her results against women only.

Maybe I only hear about the good results which is why my perception is skewed? But I'm pretty sure she's won (or is winning) the euro tour. I've seen her beat Jasmin Ouschan a few times so I expected her to be higher than Jasmin at least. She's also at the top of the 2019 AZB Moneylist (36% higher than 2nd place Siming Chen). But I know a lot of tournaments aren't reported to AZB.
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I think its a little of both. She can really play.
 
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DecentShot

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Jude Rosenstock said:
Jennifer Barretta was a competitive body builder before IG was a thing and there are many professional players, both men and women, who believe staying in shape gives them a competitive edge.

Regarding the 7-foot thing, I'm curious which players you're referring to. All of the American women on the pro tour I know routinely practice and compete on 9-foot tables.
Click to expand...

I was watching a Pro Tour event recently live, I forgot the name of it, but it was where the American women were playing against the International ladies, and all I could think of in every match and every shot.... Wow, the American women look completely out of place on these big tables. No chance to get to the positions they need to run out...they didn't even have the strength of stroke to do it. Those same type of table runouts looked like NO problem for the Asian women. For me, the difference was clear.
 
Jude Rosenstock

Jude Rosenstock

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
DecentShot said:
I was watching a Pro Tour event recently live, I forgot the name of it, but it was where the American women were playing against the International ladies, and all I could think of in every match and every shot.... Wow, the American women look completely out of place on these big tables. No chance to get to the positions they need to run out...they didn't even have the strength of stroke to do it. Those same type of table runouts looked like NO problem for the Asian women. For me, the difference was clear.
Click to expand...

You're seeing a talent-gap and I can't argue with you there. The very best women are not in America, that is certain. That said, you made two accusations. One, they spend too much time at the gym prepping for IG posts and two, they play on bar boxes. I think your comments undermine the dedication many of the American women have and you don't know who you were watching? Don't you think that's a little unfair?
 
S

skogstokig

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Jude Rosenstock said:
Why the top international women are significantly higher than American women is a tough question for a bunch of American men to answer. The truth is, I've never spent any time in any of the countries these great women hail from and have no idea what may distinguish them. I do know many American women on the pro tour seem to begin playing pool in adulthood which seems to be a significant distinguishing characteristic from American men. My favorite example is Jennifer Barretta, who started playing pool at the age of 30.

I believe (and this is just my opinion), something about American culture remains terribly patriarchal. Like, it's so deeply rooted, we don't even see it. Perhaps, someone could ask Jennifer about her thoughts. She has not only risen to be one of the top women in the country but has also traveled all over the world and competed against the very best. She might have some valuable insights that could answer this question.
Click to expand...

i wouldn't necessary define the problem as stemming from american culture. did jean balukas do bikini photo shoots? from what i've read she was appreciated for her merits and not her looks. this seems to have changed in the 80's with ewa mataya and loree etc and the high heels and glittery dresses that then followed. i might be wrong, i'm not a women's pool expert by any means. but maybe the 80's lingered a bit too long in american women pool? even when the snooker girls came over and dominated there were still some high heels, model photoshoots and other diversions all the while when sharpshooter karen corr was taking dead aim for the trophy.
 
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DecentShot

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Jude Rosenstock said:
You're seeing a talent-gap and I can't argue with you there. The very best women are not in America, that is certain. That said, you made two accusations. One, they spend too much time at the gym prepping for IG posts and two, they play on bar boxes. I think your comments undermine the dedication many of the American women have and you don't know who you were watching? Don't you think that's a little unfair?
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Fair is only a place where they judge pigs. As far as the IG comment, it was hyperbole to demonstrate that in America we have unlimited options. I always know who I'm watching. I know they are dedicated, the problem is they look like dedicated C+ players on 9 foot Diamonds with 4 1/2" pro cut pockets.
 
Jude Rosenstock

Jude Rosenstock

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
skogstokig said:
i wouldn't necessary define the problem as stemming from american culture. did jean balukas do bikini photo shoots? from what i've read she was appreciated for her merits and not her looks. this seems to have changed in the 80's with ewa mataya and loree etc and the high heels and glittery dresses that then followed. i might be wrong, i'm not a women's pool expert by any means. but maybe the 80's lingered a bit too long in american women pool? even when the snooker girls came over and dominated there were still some high heels, model photoshoots and other diversions all the while when sharpshooter karen corr was taking dead aim for the trophy.
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I don't think it necessarily has to do with bikini shoots and high heels either. And, I think Jean Balukas is a remarkable and exceptional person. What I do know is that there are women all across Asia ranked significantly higher than American women and I think I'm too American and male to properly address why.
 
Jude Rosenstock

Jude Rosenstock

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
DecentShot said:
Fair is only a place where they judge pigs. As far as the IG comment, it was hyperbole to demonstrate that in America we have unlimited options. I always know who I'm watching. I know they are dedicated, the problem is they look like dedicated C+ players on 9 foot Diamonds with 4 1/2" pro cut pockets.
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So, who were you watching?
 
CreeDo

CreeDo

Fargo Rating 597
Silver Member
Why do people need there to be some special excuse for another country
to be better than america at certain sports?

The whole mindset is ridiculous.
It's not our divine right or destiny to be the best at all things.

We're gonna be good at some things and not as good at others.
Women's pool is just one of those things.
The fact that we were the best 30 years ago isn't relevant in 2019.

When Efren won all his titles, does anyone say "yeah but that's only because
his government supported him" or do we just give him credit where it's due?
 
Maniac

Maniac

2manyQ's
Silver Member
CreeDo said:
Why do people need there to be some special excuse for another country
to be better than america at certain sports?

The whole mindset is ridiculous.
It's not our divine right or destiny to be the best at all things.

We're gonna be good at some things and not as good at others.
Women's pool is just one of those things.
The fact that we were the best 30 years ago isn't relevant in 2019.

When Efren won all his titles, does anyone say "yeah but that's only because
his government supported him" or do we just give him credit where it's due?
Click to expand...

^^^^^What he said^^^^^

Maniac
 
D

DecentShot

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
CreeDo said:
Why do people need there to be some special excuse for another country
to be better than america at certain sports?

The whole mindset is ridiculous.
It's not our divine right or destiny to be the best at all things.

We're gonna be good at some things and not as good at others.
Women's pool is just one of those things.
The fact that we were the best 30 years ago isn't relevant in 2019.

When Efren won all his titles, does anyone say "yeah but that's only because
his government supported him" or do we just give him credit where it's due?
Click to expand...

You say special excuse, I can see that, but I believe we are talking about real Socio-political reasons.
 
jokrswylde

jokrswylde

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
CreeDo said:
Why do people need there to be some special excuse for another country
to be better than america at certain sports?

The whole mindset is ridiculous.
It's not our divine right or destiny to be the best at all things.

We're gonna be good at some things and not as good at others.
Women's pool is just one of those things.
The fact that we were the best 30 years ago isn't relevant in 2019.

When Efren won all his titles, does anyone say "yeah but that's only because
his government supported him" or do we just give him credit where it's due?
Click to expand...

"Need" has nothing to do with it. And I haven't seen anyone be negative here. It is perfectly reasonable to examine factors that can influence when a country is dominant at a certain activity.

Besides, last I checked, this is a discussion forum, and how many threads on Revos or non working ppv streams do we need? I think this is a great thread... I wish there were more like it.
 
K

KMRUNOUT

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Jude Rosenstock said:
You're seeing a talent-gap and I can't argue with you there. The very best women are not in America, that is certain. That said, you made two accusations. One, they spend too much time at the gym prepping for IG posts and two, they play on bar boxes. I think your comments undermine the dedication many of the American women have and you don't know who you were watching? Don't you think that's a little unfair?
Click to expand...



I’m pretty sure Jennifer Baretta plays primarily on 9’ tables. I’m also pretty sure she trains at pool significantly.

KMRUNOUT


Sent from my iPhone using AzBilliards Forums
 
CreeDo

CreeDo

Fargo Rating 597
Silver Member
jokrswylde said:
"Need" has nothing to do with it. And I haven't seen anyone be negative here. It is perfectly reasonable to examine factors that can influence when a country is dominant at a certain activity.

Besides, last I checked, this is a discussion forum, and how many threads on Revos or non working ppv streams do we need? I think this is a great thread... I wish there were more like it.
Click to expand...

Touché :)

I would LOVE to see less "this PPV stream isn't working" posts myself.
I definitely don't make them because I enjoy it :/


DecentShot said:
You say special excuse, I can see that, but I believe we are talking about real Socio-political reasons.
Click to expand...

Yeah fair enough, I am just a little allergic to seeing NPR politics creep into the discussion,
I've heard more than my fill about the red menace.
 
D

DecentShot

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
sjm said:
Yes, and she has multiple top tens at Turning Stone, a tournament featuring a very tough field.
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Obviously I have not seen as many of her matches as you. But what I have seen of her matches at Turning Stone? It seems to devolve into an absolute war of attrition, but a win is a win.
 
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