How many money leagues request you to file an irs w9 form

calcwby4u · Aug 29, 2014

Joined a new League that started up about 4 months ago and getting ready to start playoffs where the money payout comes.

This past week every team member received a request to file a W9 with the League Office. I've never heard of such a thing. Have you?

buckshotshoey · Aug 29, 2014

Anything over 100 dollars is supposed to be claimed as Income......I think. IRS cracking fown on them?

nobcitypool · Aug 29, 2014

I've never played in a money league but I've owned several businesses and it is quite simple from an accounting point of view. Unless they're keeping the money under the table, if you show income, you need to show expense (with receipts, W9's, etc.) or you'll have to pay taxes on it.

Black-Balled · Aug 29, 2014

You don't wanna pay taxes on the pool money? Don't then. Not fair of one to expect a league owner to intentionally not file though...

nobcitypool · Aug 29, 2014

Black-Balled said:
You don't wanna pay taxes on the pool money? Don't then. Not fair of one to expect a league owner to intentionally not file though...

I'm not sure not paying is wise. However, I would think in most cases, it would be better to take all the deductions you should have for playing pool and also declare the cash from the money league as income. If you take mileage, table time, food & beverage along with pool cues, chalk, etc., I suspect you will have a decent deduction. If the IRS balks at this, you can always argue then it isn't plausible to treat the prize money as income.

With all that said, contact a real accountant for the correct, professional answer. In general, it isn't a good idea to not declare income on your tax returns. If someone files a W9 on you, that means the IRS has been alerted about this income you got. All it takes is for this to catch the eye of one IRS auditor and you could be in a little bit of trouble.

randyg · Aug 30, 2014

I know for a fact that the
APA
BCAPL
VNEA
all require the form to be in your file.
I think the tax point is $600.

randyg

miscrewed89 · Aug 30, 2014

All the years I played in leagues, never had to do such a thing! League money was always kept separate and paid back out the same way it came in... cash!
The money has already been taxed, countless times! Why must they keep on taxing it? Never mind... that's a completely different discussion. One that always ends up with me posting something that would likely get me a visit from a couple of NSA agents! Lol!

bdorman · Aug 30, 2014

You only pay income taxes on your NET gains from playing pool: winnings minus expenses (losses, travel, food, amortized equipment, etc).

There are probably 5 players in the US who need to pay income taxes from pool

if that.

Agent 99 · Aug 30, 2014

bdorman said:
You only pay income taxes on your NET gains from playing pool: winnings minus expenses (losses, travel, food, amortized equipment, etc).

There are probably 5 players in the US who need to pay income taxes from pool if that.

This is the reality ... The tax laws in the US are so convoluted, that the only folks who really have to pay any, are those who do not manufacture the necessary paper work to document expenses.

US tax laws actually allow people to substantially, if not totally eliminate any tax obligations.

This is why there are proponents of a flat tax system that does not have exemptions or deductions of any kind.

sfleinen · Aug 31, 2014

randyg said:
I know for a fact that the
APA
BCAPL
VNEA
all require the form to be in your file.
I think the tax point is $600.

randyg

Hey folks, I just want to add Tony Robles' NAPL to this list. As many of you know, Tony's wife Gail is a CPA, and I spoke to her about this thread. She wanted me to relay the following:

Gail Glazebrook Robles said:
Hi Sean!!

Yes for certain divisions of leagues where we know players could receive more than $600 over a year we have players complete a W9.

I just read that thread... Those people who say you don't have to pay on anything but the net are all wrong....
Unless you're in pool as a business (which most aren't, it's a hobby) then the income is all on the 1040 and the expenses go on a schedule A subject to the overage of 2.5% AGI. So unless you itemize and enough expenses to go 2.5% over your AGI, you get ZERO expenses claimed. 99%of the pool players in the US could not prove they are in the business of playing pool. They compete, sure, but they don't have a business plan, profit potential, etc, all the things you need for a business model.

So there you have it -- from a CPA (and a stellar one, too).

-Sean

randyg · Aug 31, 2014

sfleinen said:
Hey folks, I just want to add Tony Robles' NAPL to this list. As many of you know, Tony's wife Gail is a CPA, and I spoke to her about this thread. She wanted me to relay the following:

So there you have it -- from a CPA (and a stellar one, too).

-Sean

Thanks Sean
randyg

Pushout · Aug 31, 2014

sfleinen said:
Hey folks, I just want to add Tony Robles' NAPL to this list. As many of you know, Tony's wife Gail is a CPA, and I spoke to her about this thread. She wanted me to relay the following:

So there you have it -- from a CPA (and a stellar one, too).

-Sean

Veeeerrrrryyyyy interesting!!

Black-Balled · Sep 1, 2014

Just to clarify...

I was not suggesting anybody duck the tax man. My intent was: if you don't want to pay taxes on it, then don't, but you should expect to take sole responsibility for that choice, not for the league to have any involvement in skirting its legal obligations.

sfleinen · Sep 1, 2014

Black-Balled said:
Just to clarify...

I was not suggesting anybody duck the tax man. My intent was: if you don't want to pay taxes on it, then don't, but you should expect to take sole responsibility for that choice, not for the league to have any involvement in skirting its legal obligations.

Hi Walt:

I don't think Gail was referring to you in this, and I agree with you that folks that decide not to pay taxes on their earnings (winnings, really), should take that on their own head as their own choice -- not to defer responsibility to the league.

Rather, I think Gail was referring to the folks that say you only pay taxes on the "net" -- which is wrong. You have to calculate everything first, to see if you even qualify for expense write-off. Most pool players (99%) don't.

-Sean

liakos · Sep 1, 2014

Black-Balled said:
Just to clarify...

I was not suggesting anybody duck the tax man. My intent was: if you don't want to pay taxes on it, then don't, but you should expect to take sole responsibility for that choice, not for the league to have any involvement in skirting its legal obligations.

Nobody should duck the tax man! Everybody needs to contribute there fair share so Obama can go on his lavish vacations with his wife and kids while the world slowly burns! We need to pay taxes so the welfare scum of the earth can get there fair share! God knows, out of everybody, that the majority of the welfare and illegal immigrants that rape this country out of money are much more deserving!

Inaction · Sep 1, 2014

buckshotshoey said:
Anything over 100 dollars is supposed to be claimed as Income......I think. IRS cracking fown on them?

I think the IRS wants income from any source to be taxed. If you find $5 on the ground, it is income to you.

No one would claim it, and there would be no way to prove it.... yet. Big brother might be able to in the future, with all the cameras that are out there. ;-)

macguy · Sep 1, 2014

nobcitypool said:
I'm not sure not paying is wise. However, I would think in most cases, it would be better to take all the deductions you should have for playing pool and also declare the cash from the money league as income. If you take mileage, table time, food & beverage along with pool cues, chalk, etc., I suspect you will have a decent deduction. If the IRS balks at this, you can always argue then it isn't plausible to treat the prize money as income.

With all that said, contact a real accountant for the correct, professional answer. In general, it isn't a good idea to not declare income on your tax returns. If someone files a W9 on you, that means the IRS has been alerted about this income you got. All it takes is for this to catch the eye of one IRS auditor and you could be in a little bit of trouble.

I did it for years and never had a problem. I would write a check for my entry fees and if the room owner wanted he could just sign it back to me and I would give him the cash.

I deducted my gas and motel costs, food. I never tried to deduct stuff like practice time or equipment but I took everything that directly related to tournament play and travel no matter how small the tournament.

one stroke · Sep 1, 2014

liakos said:
Nobody should duck the tax man! Everybody needs to contribute there fair share so Obama can go on his lavish vacations with his wife and kids while the world slowly burns! We need to pay taxes so the welfare scum of the earth can get there fair share! God knows, out of everybody, that the majority of the welfare and illegal immigrants that rape this country out of money are much more deserving!

Dam you must have been pulling your hair out during Bush's terms

Q: Is it true that George W. Bush took more vacation days than Barack Obama?

A: Yes. Before his two-week trip to Martha's Vineyard in August, Obama's count was 125 full or partial days and Bush's total at the same point in his presidency was 407.

1

How many money leagues request you to file an irs w9 form

calcwby4u

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buckshotshoey

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nobcitypool

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Black-Balled

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nobcitypool

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randyg

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miscrewed89

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bdorman

Dead money

Agent 99

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sfleinen

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randyg

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Pushout

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Black-Balled

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sfleinen

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liakos

Banned

Inaction

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macguy

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one stroke

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