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Match Statistics for 14.1 scoring app - 03-14-2018, 07:54 AM

I'm working on an iOS (Apple) 14.1 scoring app. It's looking a lot like my Android scoring app (the 14.1 Straight Pool Scorer), but hopefully better. Below are the match statistics I'm planning to include. Any ideas for other stats you'd like to see?

Total Points 100
Shots Taken 120
Shots Made 105 (83%)
Misses 10 (8%)
Good Misses 5 (50%)
Safeties 5 (4%)
Good Safeties 4 (80%)
Fouls 5 (4%)
Good Fouls 1 (20%)
High Run 45
Average Run 11.0
  
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04-02-2018, 10:02 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by slach View Post
I'm working on an iOS (Apple) 14.1 scoring app. It's looking a lot like my Android scoring app (the 14.1 Straight Pool Scorer), but hopefully better. Below are the match statistics I'm planning to include. Any ideas for other stats you'd like to see?

Total Points 100
Shots Taken 120
Shots Made 105 (83%)
Misses 10 (8%)
Good Misses 5 (50%)
Safeties 5 (4%)
Good Safeties 4 (80%)
Fouls 5 (4%)
Good Fouls 1 (20%)
High Run 45
Average Run 11.0
Length of game, and average time per shot. To make this possible to you’d have to have a timeout or pause button for bathroom breaks...lol


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High Runs:

2018 - In Game - 97
2008 - Practice - 119
2011 - Highest on Video - 50

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04-03-2018, 11:43 AM

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Originally Posted by stevekur1 View Post
Length of game, and average time per shot. To make this possible to you’d have to have a timeout or pause button for bathroom breaks...lol
These are on now the list, thanks.

Here's few other new stats suggestions that have come up...

Number Break Shots
Made Break Shots (& %)
Points After Break Shot (& avg)
Points after Opponent's Safety (& avg)
Points after Opponent's Foul (& avg)
Points after Opponent's Miss (& avg)
  
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04-14-2018, 05:34 PM

HI Slach,

I am also working on a scoring app. I am interested on the stats you are trying to calculate, I am also calculate some stats and want to calculate more. What you write is not very clear:

Total Points 100
- Ok this is the current score. Fine
Shots Taken 120
- What is this? The total number of strokes? It includes everything shot taken, safeties also?
Shots Made 105 (83%)
- What is this? The number of shot that resulted in 1 or more balls legally pocketed? How can it be greater that the total points?
Misses 10 (8%)
- How do you calculated this? Anytime a player doesn't pocket a ball? What if it is a safe? How does your app knows the difference?
Good Misses 5 (50%)
- Please define in terms of data input
Safeties 5 (4%)
- Please define in terms of data input
Good Safeties 4 (80%)
- Please define in terms of data input
Fouls 5 (4%)
- Please define in terms of data input
Good Fouls 1 (20%)
- Please define in terms of data input
High Run 45
- Ok.
Average Run 11.0
- Not too informative. Often players make 1 ball with the intention of player safe on the next shot. This is skewing the piece of data enormously.


Can you tell me all the buttons your app will have? I feel if you want calculate what is listed above you need many more buttons than just +1, miss/safe, foul
  
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04-15-2018, 12:04 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2/5MR2 View Post
HI Slach,

I am also working on a scoring app. I am interested on the stats you are trying to calculate, I am also calculate some stats and want to calculate more. What you write is not very clear:

Total Points 100
- Ok this is the current score. Fine
Shots Taken 120
- What is this? The total number of strokes? It includes everything shot taken, safeties also?
Shots Made 105 (83%)
- What is this? The number of shot that resulted in 1 or more balls legally pocketed? How can it be greater that the total points?
Misses 10 (8%)
- How do you calculated this? Anytime a player doesn't pocket a ball? What if it is a safe? How does your app knows the difference?
Good Misses 5 (50%)
- Please define in terms of data input
Safeties 5 (4%)
- Please define in terms of data input
Good Safeties 4 (80%)
- Please define in terms of data input
Fouls 5 (4%)
- Please define in terms of data input
Good Fouls 1 (20%)
- Please define in terms of data input
High Run 45
- Ok.
Average Run 11.0
- Not too informative. Often players make 1 ball with the intention of player safe on the next shot. This is skewing the piece of data enormously.


Can you tell me all the buttons your app will have? I feel if you want calculate what is listed above you need many more buttons than just +1, miss/safe, foul
The apps are available, one Android (v4), one iOS (v1) and one Windows (v1). They're all very similar, the Android one's been around a few years, the other two are new. They're all free.

There's links to the apps on the downloads page of www.cue-md.com, or search for '14.1 Scorer' in the Apple or Google app stores.

Here's an explanation of the match stats, the Breaks stat is only in the Android App (currently)...

Shots Taken - one for each ball made plus one for each safety, miss or foul.
Shots Made & percent - one for each ball made, percent is (Shots Made/Shots Taken)

Misses & percent - one for each miss, percent is (Misses/Shots Taken)
Good Misses & percent - one for each miss your opponent did not make any balls after, percent is (Good Misses/Misses)

Safeties & percent - one for each safety, percent is (Safeties/Shots Taken)
Good Safeties & percent - one for each safety your opponent did not make any balls after, percent is (Good Safeties/Safeties)

Fouls & percent - one for each foul, percent is (Fouls/Shots Taken)
Good Fouls & percent - one for each foul your opponent did not make any balls after, percent is (Good Fouls/Fouls)

Breaks - number of break shots (after a new rack)
Good Breaks & percent - number of Break shots in which the called ball was made, percent is (Good Breaks/Breaks)

High Run - self explanatory, I think
Average Run - number of balls made/number of innings
  
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04-17-2018, 06:37 PM

Hey Slach, I have downloaded the app. Used it for a while. I am surprised the score is entered inning by inning (instead of ball by ball).

Few remarks about the values you calculate.

Shots Taken - one for each ball made plus one for each safety, miss or foul.
This will be fairly accurate except when a player makes 2 or more balls with 1 shot, then it will be a little off.

Shots Made & percent - one for each ball made, percent is (Shots Made/Shots Taken)
Again, both of these will be a little off if a player makes multiple balls with 1 shot. But more important: what is this suppose to measure? If you have 2 very good players in a match, there will be long runs which will drive the value of 'percent' up --but-- the safety battles will also be longer as both player are also very good at going 1 or 2 rails and coming back behind the stack, which will drive the value of 'percent' down. So in the end, what does this number tells you?

Misses & percent - one for each miss, percent is (Misses/Shots Taken)
Same remark. The variable length of the safety battles (which impact 'Shot Taken') prevent this number to have much meaning.

Good Misses & percent - one for each miss your opponent did not make any balls after, percent is (Good Misses/Misses)
Not sure what this is measuring. When the player tries to leave nothing it is a 'safe', not a miss right? So a good miss is just a lucky miss ?

Safeties & percent - one for each safety, percent is (Safeties/Shots Taken)
This will tell how much safety play there was in a match. So yes, somewhat useful.

Good Safeties & percent - one for each safety your opponent did not make any balls after, percent is (Good Safeties/Safeties)
I like this one. It will correlate with how good a player is at safety play. One problem: when a player calls safe, no rail, it is a foul. In your app you will just enter a foul, but what really happened here is a bad safe, and this is not recorded.

Fouls & percent - one for each foul, percent is (Fouls/Shots Taken)
Ok. Interesting to know how many fouls there is in a match. But a higher percentage doesn't imply bad play because there is no distinction made between voluntary fouls and real 'screwing up' fouls. Top players will sometimes have long safety battles with plenty of voluntary fouls which will give a result similar to bad players screwing up over and over again.

Good Fouls & percent - one for each foul your opponent did not make any balls after, percent is (Good Fouls/Fouls)
I think this is a good one. Only problem I see: when a player was trying to make a ball, fouls, but gives nothing. This is not really a 'good foul', more of a lucky foul.

Breaks - number of break shots (after a new rack)
So this is just the number of racks right?

Good Breaks & percent - number of Break shots in which the called ball was made, percent is (Good Breaks/Breaks)
A number close to 100% will indicate a high level of play (not always) but lower values don't mean much. And in a race to 100 there will be only around 13 break shots. What does the value 6/13 (~45%) means? Very little.

High Run - self explanatory, I think
Good.

Average Run - number of balls made/number of innings
Good. Except that safety battles sometimes include pocketing 1 ball while knowing fully that the next shot will be a safety. This is not the same as a run ending because of a miss or screwing up on position.

I thought about implementing some of these but decided not to for the reasons above. Like I said before, my app takes the score ball by ball so I have more data to calculate useful stats. But even with that I have a hard time finding useful stats to calculate other than the high runs, the number of fouls and other basic stuff.

More specifically I would like to have a stat that measure the quality of the safety play. But the subtle distinction between 'voluntary foul', 'screw up' foul and bad-safe foul makes it very difficult.
  
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04-18-2018, 08:30 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2/5MR2 View Post
Hey Slach, I have downloaded the app. Used it for a while. I am surprised the score is entered inning by inning (instead of ball by ball).

Few remarks about the values you calculate.

Shots Taken - one for each ball made plus one for each safety, miss or foul.
This will be fairly accurate except when a player makes 2 or more balls with 1 shot, then it will be a little off.

Shots Made & percent - one for each ball made, percent is (Shots Made/Shots Taken)
Again, both of these will be a little off if a player makes multiple balls with 1 shot. But more important: what is this suppose to measure? If you have 2 very good players in a match, there will be long runs which will drive the value of 'percent' up --but-- the safety battles will also be longer as both player are also very good at going 1 or 2 rails and coming back behind the stack, which will drive the value of 'percent' down. So in the end, what does this number tells you?

Misses & percent - one for each miss, percent is (Misses/Shots Taken)
Same remark. The variable length of the safety battles (which impact 'Shot Taken') prevent this number to have much meaning.

Good Misses & percent - one for each miss your opponent did not make any balls after, percent is (Good Misses/Misses)
Not sure what this is measuring. When the player tries to leave nothing it is a 'safe', not a miss right? So a good miss is just a lucky miss ?

Safeties & percent - one for each safety, percent is (Safeties/Shots Taken)
This will tell how much safety play there was in a match. So yes, somewhat useful.

Good Safeties & percent - one for each safety your opponent did not make any balls after, percent is (Good Safeties/Safeties)
I like this one. It will correlate with how good a player is at safety play. One problem: when a player calls safe, no rail, it is a foul. In your app you will just enter a foul, but what really happened here is a bad safe, and this is not recorded.

Fouls & percent - one for each foul, percent is (Fouls/Shots Taken)
Ok. Interesting to know how many fouls there is in a match. But a higher percentage doesn't imply bad play because there is no distinction made between voluntary fouls and real 'screwing up' fouls. Top players will sometimes have long safety battles with plenty of voluntary fouls which will give a result similar to bad players screwing up over and over again.

Good Fouls & percent - one for each foul your opponent did not make any balls after, percent is (Good Fouls/Fouls)
I think this is a good one. Only problem I see: when a player was trying to make a ball, fouls, but gives nothing. This is not really a 'good foul', more of a lucky foul.

Breaks - number of break shots (after a new rack)
So this is just the number of racks right?

Good Breaks & percent - number of Break shots in which the called ball was made, percent is (Good Breaks/Breaks)
A number close to 100% will indicate a high level of play (not always) but lower values don't mean much. And in a race to 100 there will be only around 13 break shots. What does the value 6/13 (~45%) means? Very little.

High Run - self explanatory, I think
Good.

Average Run - number of balls made/number of innings
Good. Except that safety battles sometimes include pocketing 1 ball while knowing fully that the next shot will be a safety. This is not the same as a run ending because of a miss or screwing up on position.

I thought about implementing some of these but decided not to for the reasons above. Like I said before, my app takes the score ball by ball so I have more data to calculate useful stats. But even with that I have a hard time finding useful stats to calculate other than the high runs, the number of fouls and other basic stuff.

More specifically I would like to have a stat that measure the quality of the safety play. But the subtle distinction between 'voluntary foul', 'screw up' foul and bad-safe foul makes it very difficult.
You make some very good points, particularly how safety battles effect the stats.

I think you'll be asking a lot to have players enter each shot, hopefully some others on this forum will voice an opinion.

Regardless, good luck with your app.
  
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04-20-2018, 04:06 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by slach View Post
You make some very good points, particularly how safety battles effect the stats.

I think you'll be asking a lot to have players enter each shot, hopefully some others on this forum will voice an opinion.

Regardless, good luck with your app.
Thanks,

My app main function is to be a scoreboard that you add on top of a video or a live stream, so a third person is supposed to enter the scores, ball by ball. I also have a rack by rack mode if there is no third person available but in that case you get no stats at all, just the score.

One thing you could do in your easily in your app is to show all the big runs (10 balls or more) instead of just the high run. That is what I do in mine and I found it gives a very good idea of the level of play.
  
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