bluestone & slate

realkingcobra · Mar 27, 2016

TableTek said:
Is this kinda like "Christopher Columbus discovered North America" or "Vietnam was a conflict and not a war" or how about "Its not you, its me!"... I too am very interested in seeing your references on this. In that Bluestone is a natural stone mined in northern PA. Even though your Blue Wax theory was obvious BS, you are correct in that Bluestone is sedimentary sandstone while slate is also sedimentary but from mica.

Here is my reference, it is an easy read..

http://www.ehow.com/list_7466991_differences-bluestone-slate.html

You know you missed me Glen!

Diamond misses you, wondering when you're going to pay them for their tables you sold but kept the money instead of paying for the tables

PS, it's an easy read....tables you have in inventory to sell.....when you sell them the manufacturer gets paid, you get a commission.....guess you didn't read that very well....and kept all the money instead......nice!

tjohnson · Mar 28, 2016

As Tony stated, slate is indeed a metamorphic rock which began its life as a sedimentary rock called shale. During metamorphism, the elevated temperature and pressure turn the clay minerals in the shale to very small flakes of mica which all tend to lie in the same plane, which gives the slate the ability to split into flat sheets.

"Brunstone" as many have stated, is not slate but a fine-grained sandstone, a sedimentary rock. It may contain a little mica, which is a flexible mineral, but brunstone is mostly quartz and feldspar and this makes Brunstone less flexible/more brittle than slate. I have looked pretty closely at the Brunstone in my GC1 and although it is sandstone, it is either slightly metamorphosed or the grains are very well cemented together, most likely by quartz. Brunstone is a hard, tough rock, not crumbly at all.

"Bluestone" is not a geologic term, but rather a trade name for a wide variety of commercially sold rock that have blue or gray tints. This happens all the time: your "granite" counter tops may or may not be granite. In the counter-top trade, just about any rock that is not marble is called "granite". I've seen "bluestone" that is limestone and "bluestone" that is sandstone.

There is a grayish-blue commercial sandstone that is quarried in Pennsylvania that is called "bluestone". This rock is part of a ~380 million year old group of sandstones that are exposed in a band of rock that runs through eastern PA and is part of the ancient Catskill Delta. Although some of the Catskill Delta rocks are blue/gray, many are reddish brown, just like my Brunstone.

So, here's my theory: Brunstone = Pennsylvania "Bluestone". The quarrymen probably call ALL of the Catskill Delta rocks that they mine "Bluestone", because that is the trade name. Doesn't matter if the rocks are reddish-brown or truly blue/gray, to them it's all "bluestone". I suspect that some people at Brunswick would occasionally call the rock in the GC1s "bluestone" because that is the trade name of the rock rather than the made-up name "brunstone".

timsmcm · Mar 28, 2016

What is the quality difference between slate and brunstone? Is it as good as slate or would I be better off looking for a slate table?

Tony_in_MD · Mar 28, 2016

Not a mechanic so I cannot say if there is any quality difference between the two surfaces. My brunstone, is hard flat and smooth. Perfectly level. I have played on Diamond Pro's - Pro-Ams, and other tables with slate surface, and have never noticed a difference.

I think the most important thing is to have the right person work on the table.

timsmcm said:
What is the quality difference between slate and brunstone? Is it as good as slate or would I be better off looking for a slate table?

TableTek · Mar 28, 2016

realkingcobra said:
Diamond misses you, wondering when you're going to pay them for their tables you sold but kept the money instead of paying for the tables

PS, it's an easy read....tables you have in inventory to sell.....when you sell them the manufacturer gets paid, you get a commission.....guess you didn't read that very well....and kept all the money instead......nice!

Yes, Table-Tek inc does have a small debt owed to Diamond which is being paid on. Find me a business without expense, short and long term liability columns... Your ignorance is almost too much to bear. If they feel that I have not kept my contractual agreement on repayment (which there is none), then they are fully within their rights to sue Table Tek. Fact is I lost $4000 dealing with them and would suggest anyone who does seek to follow in my path to do business with them not make my mistake, get everything in writing first...before you get inventory. By the time they gave me numbers, the tables were already in my shop. I make plenty of mistakes, for a while there I was even believing the bullshit coming out of your mouth. Fact of the matter is, you are a bag of hot air. Arguing with you is like trying to explain physics to a toddler.

And yes, even though slate begins life as mica sediment it does go from shale to slate through metamorphosis. See, a misspoken statement is easily admitted and corrected. Thank you for correction, I do appreciate it.

TableTek · Mar 28, 2016

tjohnson said:
As Tony stated, slate is indeed a metamorphic rock which began its life as a sedimentary rock called shale. During metamorphism, the elevated temperature and pressure turn the clay minerals in the shale to very small flakes of mica which all tend to lie in the same plane, which gives the slate the ability to split into flat sheets.

"Brunstone" as many have stated, is not slate but a fine-grained sandstone, a sedimentary rock. It may contain a little mica, which is a flexible mineral, but brunstone is mostly quartz and feldspar and this makes Brunstone less flexible/more brittle than slate. I have looked pretty closely at the Brunstone in my GC1 and although it is sandstone, it is either slightly metamorphosed or the grains are very well cemented together, most likely by quartz. Brunstone is a hard, tough rock, not crumbly at all.

"Bluestone" is not a geologic term, but rather a trade name for a wide variety of commercially sold rock that have blue or gray tints. This happens all the time: your "granite" counter tops may or may not be granite. In the counter-top trade, just about any rock that is not marble is called "granite". I've seen "bluestone" that is limestone and "bluestone" that is sandstone.

There is a grayish-blue commercial sandstone that is quarried in Pennsylvania that is called "bluestone". This rock is part of a ~380 million year old group of sandstones that are exposed in a band of rock that runs through eastern PA and is part of the ancient Catskill Delta. Although some of the Catskill Delta rocks are blue/gray, many are reddish brown, just like my Brunstone.

So, here's my theory: Brunstone = Pennsylvania "Bluestone". The quarrymen probably call ALL of the Catskill Delta rocks that they mine "Bluestone", because that is the trade name. Doesn't matter if the rocks are reddish-brown or truly blue/gray, to them it's all "bluestone". I suspect that some people at Brunswick would occasionally call the rock in the GC1s "bluestone" because that is the trade name of the rock rather than the made-up name "brunstone".

Awesome answer! I've seen what they refer to as PA bluestone quite a bit, its close to shale when it chips. We see it used for pavers around here quite a bit. I have never seen it used in pool tables, but then again I am not a geologist either so I probably couldn't tell if I did. I have seen brunstone crack, I cant fix it well.. Very sandy and even though I've not used that many different types of glue on it, what I did use failed to form a good bond. Thanks for adding some insight.

realkingcobra · Mar 28, 2016

TableTek said:
Yes, Table-Tek inc does have a small debt owed to Diamond which is being paid on. Find me a business without expense, short and long term liability columns... Your ignorance is almost too much to bear. If they feel that I have not kept my contractual agreement on repayment (which there is none), then they are fully within their rights to sue Table Tek. Fact is I lost $4000 dealing with them and would suggest anyone who does seek to follow in my path to do business with them not make my mistake, get everything in writing first...before you get inventory. By the time they gave me numbers, the tables were already in my shop. I make plenty of mistakes, for a while there I was even believing the bullshit coming out of your mouth. Fact of the matter is, you are a bag of hot air. Arguing with you is like trying to explain physics to a toddler.

And yes, even though slate begins life as mica sediment it does go from shale to slate through metamorphosis. See, a misspoken statement is easily admitted and corrected. Thank you for correction, I do appreciate it.

Yeah, right....and I'm receiving payments for the money I had to pay Diamond because you ripped them off once before on a Canada bound Diamond Pro8......you're a real trustworthy person to deal with.....NOT!!!

fastone371 · Mar 28, 2016

timsmcm said:
No I mean bluestone. I hear that most gold crown 1 tables had either brunstone or bluestone, no slate. And I hear both have a tendency to sag or bow over time. I am looking at a 1 that is nice but won't be able to look at it apart so I can see the top of the slates unless I purchase it. If it were in pieces it would be better. From what I have been reading on these forums is slate and bluestone almost look alike.

My Gold Crown 1 has what most other Gold Crowns of the era came with, Brunstone. I have no slate sagging problems which I would guess for the most part comes from incorrect shimming or table set-up rather than the type of "stone" used. I certainly would not let a Gold Crown having Brunstone keep me from buying it.

Dave · Mar 29, 2016

a new forum?

Great Idea! I'll propose it then...

Axe to Grind

feel free to move it over there and knock yourselves out

if you need to step it up a notch...

move to the sub forum "Pissing Match"

I'm sick of these petty digressions.

realkingcobra · Mar 29, 2016

Dave said:
Great Idea! I'll propose it then...

Axe to Grind

feel free to move it over there and knock yourselves out

if you need to step it up a notch...

move to the sub forum "Pissing Match"

I'm sick of these petty digressions.

If you don't like what you're reading, my suggestion is don't open the thread

Dave · Mar 29, 2016

I'll take that advise. Thank you.

Jerking off in public isn't pretty. ;-]

realkingcobra · Mar 29, 2016

Dave said:
I'll take that advise. Thank you.

Jerking off in public isn't pretty. ;-]

Watched a little to much Pee Wee Herman while you were growing up:thumbup:

DMM4342 · Nov 10, 2016

BRUNSwick and BRUNStone

1981; Brunswick filed the word Brunstone the with the United Stated Patent and Trademark Office (probably for TradeMark protection).
Classification Statement:

“Resin impregnated sandstone material used as a substitute for slate for construction purposes.”

and again…

“Resin Impregnated Sandstone Material Used as a Substitute for Slate for Billiard Table Beds and Billiard Playfields”

(Use Google, and no whining!)

realkingcobra · Nov 10, 2016

DMM4342 said:
BRUNSwick and BRUNStone

1981; Brunswick filed the word Brunstone the with the United Stated Patent and Trademark Office (probably for TradeMark protection).
Classification Statement:

“Resin impregnated sandstone material used as a substitute for slate for construction purposes.”

and again…

“Resin Impregnated Sandstone Material Used as a Substitute for Slate for Billiard Table Beds and Billiard Playfields”

(Use Google, and no whining!)

Not the same material as what was used in their tables for well over 20+ years before 1981. Read the GC1 manual that came out in 1961, clearly states the use of Brunstone in the table:thumbup:

PS, there is NO resins in the makeup of the Brunstone in the OLDER GC'S, it's sandstone mined from sandstone rock quarries and Brunswick named it Brunstone.

DMM4342 · Nov 10, 2016

realkingcobra said:
Not the same material as what was used in their tables for well over 20+ years before 1981. Read the GC1 manual that came out in 1961, clearly states the use of Brunstone in the table:thumbup:

PS, there is NO resins in the makeup of the Brunstone in the OLDER GC'S, it's sandstone mined from sandstone rock quarries and Brunswick named it Brunstone.

From Brunswick's TradeMark of Brunstone
Resin Impregnated Sandstone Material Used as a Substitute for Slate for Billiard Table Beds and Billiard Playfields

Link
http://www.trademarkia.com/brunstone-73316458.html

realkingcobra · Nov 10, 2016

DMM4342 said:
From Brunswick's TradeMark of Brunstone
Resin Impregnated Sandstone Material Used as a Substitute for Slate for Billiard Table Beds and Billiard Playfields

Link
http://www.trademarkia.com/brunstone-73316458.html

If you'd have read that a little further, you'd have seen that Brunswick was denied their request because the time limit expired. Further more, it's stated "words" that can describe the product such as the single word, "sandstone" and not to run all the description words together to describe the product. Like I said, there is NO resins in the sandstone that the Brunstone is made from. Don't believe me, just prove me wrong.....with as much brunstone as there is out there you shouldn't have a problem coming up with evidence to back up your claim......LMAO.....good luck:thumbup:

tjohnson · Nov 13, 2016

My GC1 has sandstone. Either slightly metamorphosed to quartzite or the grains are naturally well cemented with silica-quartz. No resin.

Maybe it's time to just call the rock slabs what they are: slate, sandstone, etc. Some of the "slate" in the Chinese tables I've seen pictures of are actually schist (coarser grained than slate, has prominent dark and light bands). Made-up names like Brunstone (Chinastone?) aren't really necessary, unless you are Brunswick and are worried that your customers will be turned off by the truth!

fastone371 · Nov 14, 2016

tjohnson said:
My GC1 has sandstone. Either slightly metamorphosed to quartzite or the grains are naturally well cemented with silica-quartz. No resin.

Maybe it's time to just call the rock slabs what they are: slate, sandstone, etc. Some of the "slate" in the Chinese tables I've seen pictures of are actually schist (coarser grained than slate, has prominent dark and light bands). Made-up names like Brunstone (Chinastone?) aren't really necessary, unless you are Brunswick and are worried that your customers will be turned off by the truth!

I am not sure if I qualify as a Brunswick customer but my sandstone in my GCI serves me just fine, in almost 50 years of service my table has had no problems so Im sure it will still be good sandstone long after I am gone.

sbk510 · Jun 16, 2018

I have just picked up what looks to be a GC1. The slate (leaning against the wall here) looks to have blue filler in it. Is this possible?

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

realkingcobra · Jun 16, 2018

That's brunstone.

bluestone & slate

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