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- Thread starter marek
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Everyone crying this is outrageous must not follow *any* legitimate sport that is in the olympics. They are *all* like this, without exception.
If testing were done on American pros, there would be almost no American pros.
The sports are also all tied together I believe from a WADA standpoint. So if US pool were drug tested, and there were 50 positives, those 50 positives would count as part of the quota for the entire US Olympic team, and affect other sports such as gymnastics.
If you want pro pool to be a real sport, then be prepared for huge changes. Maybe, it’s better to stay as a niche like we are now and take whatever drugs you want.
If testing were done on American pros, there would be almost no American pros.
The sports are also all tied together I believe from a WADA standpoint. So if US pool were drug tested, and there were 50 positives, those 50 positives would count as part of the quota for the entire US Olympic team, and affect other sports such as gymnastics.
If you want pro pool to be a real sport, then be prepared for huge changes. Maybe, it’s better to stay as a niche like we are now and take whatever drugs you want.
Yes, if pool should find it's way into the Olympics the anti doping rules might be a problem
for a lot of countries and their medal efforts. I'd like to see pool in the Olympics, but the
banned substances might be asking a little too much.
Maybe the WPA would consider changing from "banned substances" to "illegal substances" if they really want to test
One question: why would/should they???
in many european countries, during amator tournaments , amator players can be subject to doping drug tests , which are independent of their national pool/billard organization ...
for the record the most frequent drug trace found during those -amator players- tests is THC , which is a direct no-go : the player wins often (= almost always) a direct suspension...
i would be extremely curious to see the results of a massive pro players test , because the use of beta-blockers as doper isn't -IMHO- a legend at a pro level. same goes for golf, same goes for shooting ...
for the record the most frequent drug trace found during those -amator players- tests is THC , which is a direct no-go : the player wins often (= almost always) a direct suspension...
i would be extremely curious to see the results of a massive pro players test , because the use of beta-blockers as doper isn't -IMHO- a legend at a pro level. same goes for golf, same goes for shooting ...
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Yep
Too many cases of unintentional bans due to certain medications sportspersons take. My favorite tennis player Maria Sharapova was banned for substance that was not banned pre-2016 and was added to list in early 2016 so she was banned. Onus is on sportspersons to check medication they are taking is not on the list. Too late to say after positive that you didn't know
In legal speak, it is a technicality but it is still a ban. Mario will come back as many banned sportspersons have
I thought of Sharapova right upon reading Mario's statement.
I remember speculation was that she would take the medication in order to recover faster during tournament play. Also it would calm you down regarding nerves.
Whether that is all speculative BS or fact, I'm not sure.
But to anyone who is medically trained here on AZ, could a blood pressure medication help you remain calm during play by slowing heart rate?
I am also by no means accusing Mario of cheating. I always enjoy watching him and Albin fight through the world cup of pool for Austria, but there has to be a reason this medication was on the banned list "with the'+' sign" might have been extra strength. Which brings the heart rate down even more. So was it the+ sign that made it banned, but not the regular medication?
A lot of questions still
The organization that is recognized by the IOC as an international sports federation is the WCBS, World Confederation of Billiard Sports. The WPA is a member of the WCBS, as are the snooker and carom international organizations.
The IOC requires compliance with WADA regulations and testing of all sports federations.
This is not something new. The drug testing requirement has been around for a long time. This is not something made up on the spur of the moment.
From 2008:
"ANNOUNCEMENT 22.11.2008
Hurghada, 21st November, 2008
On Friday 21st November at 22.00 UMB has been informed about a positive case concerning the WADA Anti-Doping Regulations.
Following Anti-Doping tests made during the World Championship Three Cushion at St. Wendel (Germany) last month, player PETER DE BACKER has been tested positive on one of the products listed on the WADA Anti-Doping list 2008.
Consequently to this occurrence the player is immediately and momentarily suspended from all international and national competitions.
As a consequence of this suspension the player can not continue to participate in the ongoing Hurghada World Cup competition 2008.
Jean-Claude Dupont
President UMB"
Hurghada, 21st November, 2008
On Friday 21st November at 22.00 UMB has been informed about a positive case concerning the WADA Anti-Doping Regulations.
Following Anti-Doping tests made during the World Championship Three Cushion at St. Wendel (Germany) last month, player PETER DE BACKER has been tested positive on one of the products listed on the WADA Anti-Doping list 2008.
Consequently to this occurrence the player is immediately and momentarily suspended from all international and national competitions.
As a consequence of this suspension the player can not continue to participate in the ongoing Hurghada World Cup competition 2008.
Jean-Claude Dupont
President UMB"
as i wrote in my previous post, in europe even amator players can be tested during a tournament, and the most frequent trace of drug found is ... THC , which is the 1st cause of doping-related suspensions... even the use of pot/weed is almost legal in some european countries , it causes a direct competition suspension when the trace is > to 0 .
IMHO the use of beta blockers as 'aid' in billiard/pool isn't a legend , but it's only my own humble opinion ...
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Beta blockers use among pool players is definitely not a legend,i know of at least one pro who even participated at World Cup of Pool who likes to play "chemically enhanced" on BB
I’d be curious why people think pool players, and particularly American pool players, would have any trouble adhering to an anti-doping policy for WPA-affiliated events if a more organized tour was established. What specifically would you think they would fail? Marijuana? Cocaine? Prescription drugs in general?
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In case anyone tries to search on this topic, here is the statement as text....
STATEMENT: MARIO HE
Mario He has withdrawn from the European squad for the forthcoming Mosconi Cup after receiving notification of a failed drugs test.
The case is ongoing, however, He has decided to withdraw from the European Mosconi Cup squad while he awaits the outcome of the investigation.
He said: “I‘m so, so sad that this happened. There is never a right time for this but this was the worst time I could imagine. The Mosconi Cup was always my dream and I made it, but now I can’t play it because I was tested positive by a doping test by a non-performance enhancing drug.
“It’s unreal and like a nightmare, which I will never forget in my life. I have high blood pressure, which I have had since a young age and my mum has it as well. I got a medicine which was not on the doping list. However, it didn’t work and we changed the pill. The new medicine had the same name just with a Plus on it, so that‘s why I was not concerned about it. But this wasn‘t legal.
“I want to say sorry to the organisations and federations that have to do some work because of my fault.”
He qualified for the 2018 Mosconi Cup through finishing second on the European Team ranking. He will be replace by Greece’s Alex Kazakis, who was the next highest placed player on the combined ranking list. The full, final ranking list can be viewed here: http://www.matchroompool.com/wp-content/uploads/euro-rankings-2018-18.pdf
Mario He has withdrawn from the European squad for the forthcoming Mosconi Cup after receiving notification of a failed drugs test.
The case is ongoing, however, He has decided to withdraw from the European Mosconi Cup squad while he awaits the outcome of the investigation.
He said: “I‘m so, so sad that this happened. There is never a right time for this but this was the worst time I could imagine. The Mosconi Cup was always my dream and I made it, but now I can’t play it because I was tested positive by a doping test by a non-performance enhancing drug.
“It’s unreal and like a nightmare, which I will never forget in my life. I have high blood pressure, which I have had since a young age and my mum has it as well. I got a medicine which was not on the doping list. However, it didn’t work and we changed the pill. The new medicine had the same name just with a Plus on it, so that‘s why I was not concerned about it. But this wasn‘t legal.
“I want to say sorry to the organisations and federations that have to do some work because of my fault.”
He qualified for the 2018 Mosconi Cup through finishing second on the European Team ranking. He will be replace by Greece’s Alex Kazakis, who was the next highest placed player on the combined ranking list. The full, final ranking list can be viewed here: http://www.matchroompool.com/wp-content/uploads/euro-rankings-2018-18.pdf
The argument that JAM made was that banned for a blood pressure medication this is
ridiculous. Generally, the anti doping regs a are to prevent the use of performance
enhancing substances. In that you really can't play if you're dead, I suppose the blood
pressure meds could be considered performance enhancing, but I can't imagine they
make you break better, shoot better, or provide you with the sudden ability to never miss
a shot or anything like that. They keep your blood pressure at a safe level so you can
function normally, but apparently there is something in them that rings the violation bell.
Pool requires very little of what a 100 meter sprinter, or a cross country skier, or a
gymnast, or a competitive swimmer has to do to maintain playing shape, maybe the rules
for pool players don't need to be as restrictive. Now, most illegal substances probably
wouldn't aid the pool player, but they're illegal, testing for illegal should be a given.
I'm not saying the should or would change their policy, like I said - rules are rules,
but I fail to find a substance that would actually enhance a pool players performance
excepting a good pair of glasses for some, which I understand are not illegal.
In my reading, THC is only prohibited “in-competition”. WADA cites a urinary threshold of 150ng/mL (not zero). It used to be 75ng/mL pre-2011 but too many athletes were testing positive. My understanding is this means an athlete would likely be fine if they stopped use 1-2 weeks before competition.
https://www.wada-ama.org/en/media/news/2013-05/new-threshold-level-for-cannabis
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Beta blockers are commonly-used blood pressure meds, and are also used to reduce shakes and anxiety. That's why they've been banned. We don't know that's what He got flagged for, but it's a pretty good bet, since high blood pressure was mentioned in his statement.
Above it was mentioned that He changed from one kind of medication to the "+" version. Something was added to the plus version (beta blockers, anti-anxiety stuff, THC, ???) that was a violation. It was not the basic blood pressure med that was banned. Here is the relevant part of He's statement:
"... I got a medicine which was not on the doping list. However, it didn’t work and we changed the pill. The new medicine had the same name just with a Plus on it, so that‘s why I was not concerned about it. But this wasn't legal. ..."
Pool doesn’t require muscles brought upon by steroids like sprinting does. But to think drugs that calm the body or focus the brain don’t help short term performance, is naive. I’ve personally seen, as I’m sure most of us have, pills being popped right before a match, a joint smoked during a match, a line snorted off the countertop right before a match, etc.
Archer even had a centerpiece spread on one of the billiard mags in his prime that he was on rx meds that helped him play better and he was going to turn a leaf and be clean.
Video gamers are also all drugged up.
Like I said, be careful what you wish for. With greater pay, coverage, fame, acceptance of a sport, so comes scrutiny. Being a niche is also freedom.
Archer even had a centerpiece spread on one of the billiard mags in his prime that he was on rx meds that helped him play better and he was going to turn a leaf and be clean.
Video gamers are also all drugged up.
Like I said, be careful what you wish for. With greater pay, coverage, fame, acceptance of a sport, so comes scrutiny. Being a niche is also freedom.
Diuretics are the most common anti-hypertension med, and many of them are banned. I believe they're banned mainly because they get other drugs out of the system quickly because they make you pee.
Also beta blockers are an anti-hypertension med, and they're banned because they have anxiety-reduction and "shake"-reduction effects.
Appleton and a few other pool players are or used to be sponsored by cheqio, which probably didn't have any banned substances (because they're chock full of stuff that doesn't do anything), but advertise as pills and drinks that reduce fatigue and increase focus.
Don't worry. Some members like to fly off the hinges without knowing any of the facts.