No respect for players that won't gamble?

Very well said!

I love both the gambling-players and the pure tournament-players, and I believe that those who excel in tournament-play could also do the same in gambling, and vice versa.

The pressure is enourmous on both kind of players.

I am however pretty sure that there is only a handful of players in the world, if that much, who would get in the box with Ralf Souquet in a long all-around challenge.

He IS, without doubt, the player of the decade 2000-2010, and he has been performing at the highest level for almost 20 years now. And never bet a dime.

I think Ralf is doing all he can to make the game a profession. problem is he has all the gamblers holding him back. No big sponsor will ever get behind a bunch of gamblers...

Well said!
Gambling is choice and not a requirement to playing pool!

Ralph is a stand up guy... very nice.. .. and a professional in every sense of the word.

Germans dont gamble.. ( on the whole)... just how it is. To use that fact as a slight against their game and/or heart.. grasping at straws plain and simple.

You DO NOT need to gamble to love playing pool.
Nuff Said.

What "gambler" would want to f*&k with Souquet on the green felt anyhow? They should be glad he doesn't gamble...LOL. Do they think he would get on the table and fold? Please.....

I think what makes me avoid tournaments among other reasons is that I'm a poor loser. I can't stand to lose a match 7-6 and have the opponent catch three deciding rolls and think he beat me. That's why most people that would rather gamble can't stand a short race. You can lose a short race to someone that you can give the six to in a long, drawn out setting or ahead set. It's frustrating. I'd venture to say that half of the guys that play tourneys are doing it because they have no action. Or, to say, they are too well known in that area. It's their only option. Some play tourneys just to say they did, and played "so and so." Woo Hoo. I like to win, and so does everybody else. What's worse than giving up five games and the eight going to seven and getting beat? I'll tell you. It's the guy telling everyone how he drilled you. APA situation? I probably played the hardest in the one year in the APA. I wasn't about to let myself down. Anyway, I'd like to see the percentage of players in a tournament that are there because there's no other option.

pressure

Unless you are broke or not a very good gambler there is far less pressure gambling than formal competition. Gambling lets you get into the box more often and it can be argued that gambling puts more pressure on you than playing someone else for nothing, depends on the person and the bet. However a smart gambler always has a few more barrels to fire, if not at this opponent, another.

In formal competition you have usually one chance to stay on the shorter path up the winners side, and usually one chance to do or die on the losers side. The only other chance at most tournaments is to go find some action to make the trip worthwhile if you have busted out. Then you have unlimited chances unless your money runs out. I compete in formal competition because I enjoy it, I bet on pool tables to make money.

Hu

ShootingArts said:

Unless you are broke or not a very good gambler there is far less pressure gambling than formal competition. Gambling lets you get into the box more often and it can be argued that gambling puts more pressure on you than playing someone else for nothing, depends on the person and the bet. However a smart gambler always has a few more barrels to fire, if not at this opponent, another.

In formal competition you have usually one chance to stay on the shorter path up the winners side, and usually one chance to do or die on the losers side. The only other chance at most tournaments is to go find some action to make the trip worthwhile if you have busted out. Then you have unlimited chances unless your money runs out. I compete in formal competition because I enjoy it, I bet on pool tables to make money.

Hu

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Dammit Hu, you're the man. This last paragraph makes perfect sense.

Shawn, I hear ya man....

Used to play this guy in APA Masters.....great guy, everytime we played it was a good match, but I beat him like 7-5.....his comment, every time, was that he was a money player and doesn't play well for less than $500 a set.....I felt I was a better player, but I never took the bait - $500 is too much for me to lose just to find out somebody lays down in league just to throw out some bait....

Tournament player with skills and tenacity = heart

Person that spends hours upon hours working on their game = heart

Tough gambler that takes good even matches = heart

Gambler that outruns the nuts = heart

Gambler that negotiates well to always get a game in their favor = match-up artist, does not equate to heart

They don't gamble for the same reason Mosconi didn't gamble, they have sponsors. Shane won't be gambling anymore either now that he has cuetec sponsoring him and he will have more money in his bank account than most of the cash players.

Some of the legends of the game who gambled and hustled ended up dead broke.

Ok Shawn, you got me, I'll play you.

alstl said:

They don't gamble for the same reason Mosconi didn't gamble, they have sponsors. Shane won't be gambling anymore either now that he has cuetec sponsoring him and he will have more money in his bank account than most of the cash players.

Some of the legends of the game who gambled and hustled ended up dead broke.

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But they have a lifetime of experience that most on here would only dream about.

alstl said:

They don't gamble for the same reason Mosconi didn't gamble, they have sponsors. Shane won't be gambling anymore either now that he has cuetec sponsoring him and he will have more money in his bank account than most of the cash players.

Some of the legends of the game who gambled and hustled ended up dead broke.

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Are you sure that Shane won't gamble anymore? Because I think you are wrong, unless you can prove it.

As a matter of fact, Shane will gamble $ 5,000 this coming Wednesday, against Scott Frost, broadcasted live at TAR. I guess Cuetec knows about that...

I mostly agree with the OP on this one.

There ARE differences between tournament play and gambling sessions, though. In a tournamnet you have to come with your game right out of the gate and you get only one match to stay in it. When you are gambling you can wear down the other guy, you can influence things with the spot or the bet, etc.


I can see both sides of what has already been said. I tend to like to grind it out and see who will outlast the other guy after a few hours or more. I like to lock up and play a long session. A couple mistakes or rolls will not determine the winner at the end.

This is the same thinking as to why a match is not one game or a race to three. It is just not a good gauge of who is the better player. A race to 7 is prob THE MINIMUM that is required to mean anything at all.

I know what the crawfish was saying. I play in the APA as a 7, and I usually do very well, but sometimes after giving up a spot on a small table and losing to a much weaker player, it stinks. You feel a little cheated. I have been guilty of challenging a guy who proceeds to talk crap to a "real" game for something. In the end, you just have to realize that tournamnet, or league play, etc is a different animal. They each have their pros and cons. They are different, but to excel in either ( or both) you have to be skilled and able to play under pressure.


But to try and discredit ANY of the top players mentioned in any way because they refuse to gamble is ridiculous! These are all WORLD CLASS players who have proven this fact time and time again.

These are not the trash talking guys at the local bar who back down for playing a game for $10! Get real. I wonder how many real gamblers would be able to play their best pool with an audience and a TV camera in their face? You do not get to pick the equipment, the time of day, or any of the other things that you get to influence in a gambling situation.

I think that both types of players should be respected. To be great at either takes skill. A lot comes down to the personality type and previous experience.


The bottom line is that a great player SHOULD NOT be disrespected because they make a choice not to gamble.


Jw

Shawn Armstrong said:

Been there, done that, got the t-shirt.

What's the score at now? I beat you 3 sets at the Pocket, 8-ball match at the CPA, and I think you've drilled me twice or three times in the 9-ball CPA. Mind you, the drillings were when you were two rankings less than me (kidding myself - the ball count was so one-sided, he could have been two rankings higher than me and still won).

Turning into a good "league" rivalry!

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Two of the sets (9 and 10 ball) at end pocket could have went either way, neither of us played overly awesome.

I dont think I'll be coming back to Burlington for league so our rivalry will have to continue only at regionals! That guy with the beard is SO scared to play me that he got me on his team...... ahahahha.

Id like to play some sets again, for whatever, even $10s or pops. End pocket, any time! I want to be able to play well and maybe win.

just one more comment

I just wanted to say one more thing. To people who think that these top pro players aren't playing for anything. I strongly disagree!

Think for a minute what they have on the line. Their tour status, possible endorsements ( $$) , reputaion as a player, in addition to any prize money they may or may not win. Add to that that it is being recorded to be on record forever.

These players have invested way more ( airfare, hotel, travel expenses, entry fees, oh yeah. and the many years of dedication! ) BEFORE the match even begins. You want to say that someone who will put up say $500 or more is putting MORE on the line?

Yes I know that they get some endorsement money will cover a lot of expenses, but they had to earn that first too.


Jw