How Parris Cues Are Made
- Thread starter 9Ballr
- Start date
Snooker cues are normally REALLY LOW deflection...
Agreed. Even when taking into account the lighter balls, the thinness of the shaft compared with a standard pool cue more than compensates for the denser ferule material. So less squirt.
But having said, that I do think that brass is probably sub-optimal, and is one area where snooker cue tech could usefully evolve. After 30 years, I had Mike Wooldridge change the ferule of my John Paris cue to some synthetic compound that is lighter than brass, and am pleased with the result.
I remember reading some advice on selecting a cue from a snooker pro many many years ago. He said that all you need to do is to look along the cue and see if it looks straight by eye. If it looks straight then it is fine. Do not then roll it along the bed of the table to further check for straightness, as anything reveals by that will be entirely spurious.
So perhaps snooker players are less obsessed with straightness. But of course anyone whose living depends on being able to sell hand made snooker cues would not be doing themselves any favors if they did not produce absolutely straight cues.
Having said this, plenty of snooker players find other things to obsess about when selecting cues. One entirely spurious feature that seems to have appeared over the last few years is the delusion that the number or closeness of the 'arrows' in the grain of the ash somehow improves the quality of the hit. Complete nonsense of course.
This is the first time I have heard that theory.
Can you provide a source?
I agree, way too big.
Shaun Murphy has a new cue, 8.75 mm tip, made by John Parris
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCFUvQSPtMs
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It is not a 'theory'. It's nonsense
No, sorry. I am sure you could find reference to if you browse one of the UK based snooker forums, but I wouldn't waste your time. You come across enough rubbish on the internet as it is without deliberately seeking it out.
It may well be nonsense, but I have seen it affect the asking and selling prices of cues.
Just for clarification, one will see the "arrows" referred to as "chevrons" occasionally.
I have a couple of snooker cues, one a vintage US made maple cue from about 1963, and the other a Canadian made cue from the early to mid 1950's, also maple. I do not yet have an ash snooker cue.
I have been watching for an ash snooker cue for my collection and have passed up some great examples for various reasons.
My experience and impression is that the snooker players are not in fact as obsessed with such things as straightness as US players. The "roundness" was also mentioned. Obviously, a snooker cue made by these means may not be as round as a pool cue made on a lathe. But we stroke the cue, we don't spin it. LOL!
When I was a kid I was taught NOT to roll a pool cue, just sight down it. Now people commonly roll cues. And now people sometimes want to know if the straightness was checked on a lathe with a dial indicator! I'm surprised people haven't started asking for the tolerances of the lathe the cue was checked on!
It's wood. It moves. For sure. Regardless of age, preparation, processing, or species, no wood is completely stable, It is an inherently unstable material. Wood can be more or less stable depending on numerous factors, but it can't be completely stable.
What I am curious about is this:
Producing the cue by planing cuts the wood with the grain. Producing the cue by lathe cuts the wood essentially at 90 degrees to the grain, across it.
What effect, if any, does this have on the wood. Does it have anything to do with stability of the wood?
Or is it in fact incidental?
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Those are very interesting questions. I hope you get some answers. I wonder what they would have to say about it in the cuemakers section.
Agree. Dominic Dale, snooker player and commentator, had this to say when asked about about using non-brass ferrules in snooker:
"The white and black fibre or resin ferrules are great, but the problem is that snooker players have been accustomed to using brass ferrules for so long that it would be very difficult to get used to anything else. The phenolic resin or fibre ferrules do not carry as much power as traditional brass ferrules but can create great amounts of spin on the cue ball. Peter [Ebdon] has experimented with a black fibre ferrule, while Steve [Davis] played for a while with a white one, similar to those of the nine-ball pool players. You could use an 11mm resin or fibre ferrule because it throws the ball just like timber due to its lack of weight and mass – it’s as if you haven’t got a ferrule on the cue at all. With my own experimentation, I found they played a lot like a brass ferrule at about 9.5mm. When you play a shot with right-hand side, you get an initial movement to the left – the Americans call it ‘squirt’. With the resin or fibre ferrules, you don’t get that nearly as much. If you start off in snooker using one you would be fine, although they may not be as durable as brass ferrules and can become misshapen over time."
How come Predator, OB, Mezz, and other spliced shaft/cue products haven't taken over the snooker world?
When you hit a ball on the right with a cue it goes left. Same as when the cue ball hits an object ball.
This is supposed to happen. It isn't an aberration, accident, or mistake. It's physics.
Many are convinced there is something wrong with it I think. But that's another discussion.
Why haven't the LS products taken over snooker? I dunno. They also have poor fundamentals, poor stance and stroke, they aim wrong, stroke wrong... :wink: It's a wonder they make any balls at all, especially with those tight pockets on those huge tables that demand great accuracy. :wink:
Maybe when they fix their fundamentals they will upgrade their equipment. Oh...then they'll be playing pool. :grin-square::grin::wink:
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How come Predator, OB, Mezz, and other spliced shaft/cue products haven't taken over the snooker world?
Because snooker players have squirt at manageable levels through the thinner shafts they have always used. So they don't need a 'high tech' solution.
But for a pool player who is used to playing with 12 or 13mm shaft, and who is not comfortable playing with something around 10 or 11mm, Predator etc may be worth looking at.
Although I wouldn't argue about it, I am not convinced.
Their ferrules are heavy, and those snooker shaft tapers are pretty stiff. I think they do still deal with the kind of squirt and/or deflection we do when we play with standard maple shafts.
To be fair, all levels of squirt and/or deflection are "manageable" to use your word. The degree of compensation will vary from cue to cue, that's all. How well one can compensate will have a lot to do with practice and talent I think.
They don't need a high tech solution because they trained to compensate. They also don't typically change cues like they change sock as Americans seem to do nowadays. Play with the same cue for decades and then somebody tells you there is something wrong because it isn't LS or LD. Yeah. Goes off like a fart in church. When I play with my Joss I don't realize I am compensating for anything, I just play. But I have played with it over 30 years.
I am quite enjoying 31 inch skinny shafts on my 1980 Huebler though (originals believe it or not). And I suspect it may have a lot to do with what you are saying. I believe they are inherently lower deflection. They would be even more so without the old heavy ferrules that are on them.
We don't need high tech anymore than the snooker players do. We want it. We like it. But need? That's a strong word. Most championships were won and most records set with standard old school pool shafts. The LD revolution isn't what some would like it to be in that regard. Those stats will change with passing time and LD and high tech will lead, of course.
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I am not a cue maker but might be able to help a bit ...
Many use "live tooling" rather than single point cutters in their lathes. The live tooling cuts in the same direction that the plane cuts in the Parris Cues video, while the lathe turns the cue radially like they do by hand in the video.
I have no idea what affect this all might have on the wood stability. I do know that turning wood on a metal lathe with a single point tool will either show lots of tool marks with some tearing, or take a very long time due to a very low feed rate. :boring2:
Dave <--- has several lathes but no live tooling and rarely cuts wood
Thanks for your thoughts.
Yes, I understand the live tooling. But the cue is still turning while the live tooling is cutting. This results in a spiral.
There have been a couple of very nice responses in the cuemakers forum on this matter.
Indeed, as I understand it they are very careful with their feed rates. Not all of their tooling is live, as you pointed out the example of boring. In fact, many of those with basic repair lathes alone have no live tooling at all.
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Snooker cues are normally REALLY LOW deflection...
Just curious, have you ever tried one on a pool cue ball? With the additional mass of a pool cue ball, I wonder if that would hold up in pool as well as it does in snooker.
I would like to try a snooker cue, a quality one like Parris, to play with. I was checking ebay for them and seems they are only really available in the UK.
By the way, this is one of the more interesting threads I've seen in a while. I guess that makes me a true cue nerd.
I have been watching too. You can find an occasional seller shipping internationally. I have passed up a few for various reasons but am confident I will get something I want.
You can specifically search UK eBay as well. I generally search several different countries.
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