Ball in Hand handicap system

I know nothing about it. Anyone have insight or resources about how it is setup?


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I know nothing about it but you have a Great Name

MattPoland said:

I know nothing about it. Anyone have insight or resources about how it is setup?

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Matt...I think this is new league being promoted by Mike Sigel. The handicap consists of each skill level getting a certain # of bih every game. One of my students, Mark Mariani (youngstownkid on here) was on the winning team last summer that won $100,000!

Scott Lee
Director, SPF National Pool School Tour

I think the UBL has the potential to bring in a big influx of new players for a number of reasons. First, the ball in hand handicap system makes it so anyone can win. While some people may not like it, this proves that it is a fair system. Essentially, the system is designed to make you play your best and run out utilizing how ever many (if any) ball in hands you get.

Second, because beginner players can now compete against much better players and have a reasonable chance to win, they will stay active in the league and active players often bring in other players. They also tend to want to improve which also means money spent on table time, equipment, etc.

Finally, the prize money - $100,000 to the winning team, $40,000 to the second, $20,000 for third, $15,000 for fourth, $10,000 for 5th - 6th, and $5,000 for 7th - 16th (not including the 10% of the prize money - over and above the team prize - paid to the rooms of the winning teams) - far exceeds the other leagues.

I agree that it is an unconventional handicap system but if you watch a few matches I think most will see it's benefit. Beginning players can now be competitive and good players and pros now have to play near perfect (to their ability) to win consistently.

Scott Lee said:

Matt...I think this is new league being promoted by Mike Sigel. The handicap consists of each skill level getting a certain # of bih every game. One of my students, Mark Mariani (youngstownkid on here) was on the winning team last summer that won $100,000!



Scott Lee

Director, SPF National Pool School Tour

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Thanks. I’ve heard of the league but not the system. Curious about how you hand out BIH. In something like 9-ball, that’s interesting thinking about how low level players fail to process patterns.


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It was actually started by Mike Sigel several years ago, way before the UBL. He started a circuit on the West Coast, actually while he was house pro at Champion Billiards, Frederick, Maryland.

The circuit started, but I don't think it really got going. There were a couple investors. The premise is that rather than a handicap, a certain number of ball(s) in hand would be given from the stronger player, to the weaker player, to even out the game. It does have some merit, but like all handicap systems, probably something to be complained about. What else do you do about handicaps but complain?

All the best,
WW

It ran one session in just a few states. The winning team played out of one of the rooms in FL that I play out of (Corner Pocket, Clearwater). They won $10,000. The GPPA did not play any more sessions after that.

Scott Lee
Director, SPF National Pool School Tour

WildWing said:

It was actually started by Mike Sigel several years ago, way before the UBL. He started a circuit on the West Coast, actually while he was house pro at Champion Billiards, Frederick, Maryland.

The circuit started, but I don't think it really got going. There were a couple investors. The premise is that rather than a handicap, a certain number of ball(s) in hand would be given from the stronger player, to the weaker player, to even out the game. It does have some merit, but like all handicap systems, probably something to be complained about. What else do you do about handicaps but complain?

All the best,
WW

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I imagine that the ball in hand handicap takes away safety play on the part of the better player. Does anyone know how the handicap is applied?

jimmyg said:

I imagine that the ball in hand handicap takes away safety play on the part of the better player. Does anyone know how the handicap is applied?

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I would like to know as well.

jimmyg said:

I imagine that the ball in hand handicap takes away safety play on the part of the better player. Does anyone know how the handicap is applied?

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It doesn't take safety play away, but it does change the strategy. Before, you mostly play safe to keep your opponent from hitting their ball. Now, I would think playing safe would be done to get your opponent to use a ball in hand and to tie their balls up so that even with ball in hand they have trouble making it.

jrctherake said:

I would like to know as well.

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If you're opponent misses and leaves you so.ewhere you don't like, you can just use one of your BIH. If you get out of line during a run, use a BIH.

The Only Time I Know Of That You Can't Use It Is When You're On The 8 Ball. I don't know if why my phone capitalized each letter as if I was writing a title...weird

TonyFL said:

It doesn't take safety play away, but it does change the strategy. Before, you mostly play safe to keep your opponent from hitting their ball. Now, I would think playing safe would be done to get your opponent to use a ball in hand and to tie their balls up so that even with ball in hand they have trouble making it.

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Changes it entirely. Doesn't appear that playing safe by locking up your opponent, or playing 2-way shots, has an advantage until your opponent has run out of his allotted BIHs. The players getting these BIH handicaps would have to be close to beginners and I wouldn't think most good players would enjoy competing at that level. JMHO.

Thank you.

jimmyg said:

Changes it entirely. Doesn't appear that playing safe by locking up your opponent, or playing 2-way shots, has an advantage until your opponent has run out of his allotted BIHs. The players getting these BIH handicaps would have to be close to beginners and I wouldn't think most good players would enjoy competing at that level. JMHO.

Thank you.

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What I think you have to keep in mind is that potentially, both players have ball in hand(s) to use during the game. So if Player A is rated at a "3", they get 3 ball in hands. If Player B is rated at a "2" they get 2 ball in hands. It's not an either / or system.

Again, the system is designed to make you run out as often as possible. The only way to win matches consistently is to play as near perfect to your ability as possible.

Originally Posted by jimmyg View Post
Changes it entirely. Doesn't appear that playing safe by locking up your opponent, or playing 2-way shots, has an advantage until your opponent has run out of his allotted BIHs. The players getting these BIH handicaps would have to be close to beginners and I wouldn't think most good players would enjoy competing at that level. JMHO.

Thank you

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TonyFL said:

What I think you have to keep in mind is that potentially, both players have ball in hand(s) to use during the game. So if Player A is rated at a "3", they get 3 ball in hands. If Player B is rated at a "2" they get 2 ball in hands. It's not an either / or system.

Again, the system is designed to make you run out as often as possible. The only way to win matches consistently is to play as near perfect to your ability as possible.

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Sounds a little over-complicated for two beginners each getting several ball in hands per game, and I can't imagine an A or B player getting BIH from a D player. If it's successful, who am I to disagree?

Good luck.

jimmyg...The better the player, the less bih they get. An A player playing a D player would give up ball in hand...they wouldn't be getting it themselves. For the highest rated players, they might be giving an additional couple of ball in hand shots, plus whatever the lower skilled player is assigned.

Scott Lee
Director, SPF National Pool School Tour

jimmyg said:

Sounds a little over-complicated for two beginners each getting several ball in hands per game, and I can't imagine an A or B player getting BIH from a D player. If it's successful, who am I to disagree?

Good luck.

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Originally Posted by jimmyg View Post
Sounds a little over-complicated for two beginners each getting several ball in hands per game, and I can't imagine an A or B player getting BIH from a D player. If it's successful, who am I to disagree?

Good luck.

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Scott Lee said:

jimmyg...The better the player, the less bih they get. An A player playing a D player would give up ball in hand...they wouldn't be getting it themselves. For the highest rated players, they might be giving an additional couple of ball in hand shots, plus whatever the lower skilled player is assigned.

Scott Lee
Director, SPF National Pool School Tour

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That's why I couldn't imagine it, Scott. :smile:

For the lower rated players each with a BIH handicap...why not have the number of BIHs cancel one another's out. For instance, if one was handicapped @ 3 BIHs and another @2, it may make sense and be a quicker game if the lower rated player in this example and game, simply getting 1 BIH. Just an idea.

Still, can't imaging too many good players wanting to compete at this level and in this manner. JMHO.

jimmyg said:

That's why I couldn't imagine it, Scott. :smile:

For the lower rated players each with a BIH handicap...why not have the number of BIHs cancel one another's out. For instance, if one was handicapped @ 3 BIHs and another @2, it may make sense and be a quicker game if the lower rated player in this example and game, simply getting 1 BIH. Just an idea.

Still, can't imaging too many good players wanting to compete at this level and in this manner. JMHO.

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JImmy, more bih mean quicker games, not slower. Have you seen SL2s and SL3's play one another ? lol I'd give them bih on every shot they took

So, give the SL2 three bih and the SL3 only two bih, and that game is going to move quickly, they way it should. Five bih in in one game guarantee's 5 balls sunk, and hopefully a leave on at least one other ball. So, that's 10 balls down. Lets assume the balls that are tied up, they actually chose them early, which also will speed up the game.

ChicagoRJ said:

JImmy, more bih mean quicker games, not slower. Have you seen SL2s and SL3's play one another ? lol I'd give them bih on every shot they took

So, give the SL2 three bih and the SL3 only two bih, and that game is going to move quickly, they way it should. Five bih in in one game guarantee's 5 balls sunk, and hopefully a leave on at least one other ball. So, that's 10 balls down. Lets assume the balls that are tied up, they actually chose them early, which also will speed up the game.

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Never...Sounds like fun. :wink: