Misconception About Follow Through

Sharivari · Oct 23, 2019

I can remember that one day a player came over and told me to follow through the cueball. He said the tip and the cueball will then be longer in contact and I will get more rotation on the cueball. I practiced it and it worked great.

But a few years later I have a different opinion. I claim that we are doing this to get a better timing on the shot and not to have longer contact with the cueball. To prove my point I made a short video with slow motion footage and some graphics to explain everything.

https://youtu.be/oAfWJsKLouw

I would love to hear your opinions on this topic.

Shari

trob · Oct 23, 2019

Edit. Not worth the time. Lol

Scherf · Oct 23, 2019

I don't think the tip stays in contact any longer at all. You follow through so your stroke stays consistent through contact and there for online. If you just poke at the ball, your arm will tense up at contact and thus throwing your shot in various directions.

garczar · Oct 23, 2019

Scherf said:
I don't think the tip stays in contact any longer at all. You follow through so your stroke stays consistent through contact and there for online. If you just poke at the ball, your arm will tense up at contact and thus throwing your shot in various directions.

I agree. It assures a forceful, positive on-line strike. Watch 3c players. They can get stupid action with almost zero follow-thru when needed. FT doesn't impact spin.

SFC9ball · Oct 23, 2019

The Tip stays in contact with the cue ball for 1/1000 of a second. what the cue stick does after that has no effect on the shot.

Patrick Johnson · Oct 23, 2019

Scherf said:
I don't think the tip stays in contact any longer at all. You follow through so your stroke stays consistent through contact and there for online. If you just poke at the ball, your arm will tense up at contact and thus throwing your shot in various directions.

garczar said:
I agree. It assures a forceful, positive on-line strike. Watch 3c players. They can get stupid action with almost zero follow-thru when needed. FT doesn't impact spin.

SFC9ball said:
The Tip stays in contact with the cue ball for 1/1000 of a second. what the cue stick does after that has no effect on the shot.

These comments are true - they're also what Sharivari says in his video.

pj
chgo

BRussell · Oct 23, 2019

Good video. I think a lot of us know that tip contact time isn't increased (despite some debate about it!), but I liked the explanation of how it is involved in timing. I don't think I've seen it explained quite like that before, as an alternative to the "increased tip contact time" idea.

I do not think timing is fully determined by follow-through, though. I don't think the video says that either, but I wonder what other techniques can be used to improve timing. I think my timing on my break could be better, but I'm not quite sure what to do to improve it, or even how to know for sure whether your timing is early or late or right on.

Patrick Johnson · Oct 23, 2019

BRussell said:
Good video. I think a lot of us know that tip contact time isn't increased (despite some debate about it!), but I liked the explanation of how it is involved in timing. I don't think I've seen it explained quite like that before, as an alternative to the "increased tip contact time" idea.

I do not think timing is fully determined by follow-through, though. I don't think the video says that either, but I wonder what other techniques can be used to improve timing. I think my timing on my break could be better, but I'm not quite sure what to do to improve it, or even how to know for sure whether your timing is early or late or right on.

I notice lots of good breakers choke up on the cue for breaking (grip it forward of their usual place). I imagine this is a timing thing: they don't reach full stroke speed until a little after the "bottom" of their pendulum stroke.

pj
chgo

dr_dave · Oct 23, 2019

BRussell said:
Good video. I think a lot of us know that tip contact time isn't increased (despite some debate about it!), but I liked the explanation of how it is involved in timing. I don't think I've seen it explained quite like that before, as an alternative to the "increased tip contact time" idea.

Another way to describe it is that the follow-through is a symptom of a good, accelerating stroke into the CB. If there is limited follow-through, that is a symptom of poor stroke delivery into the CB (e.g., decelerating into the CB, or adding tension during the stroke). For more info, see:

follow-through resource page

Regards,
Dave

dr_dave · Oct 23, 2019

Patrick Johnson said:
I notice lots of good breakers choke up on the cue for breaking (grip it forward of their usual place). I imagine this is a timing thing: they don't reach full stroke speed until a little after the "bottom" of their pendulum stroke.

This is more of a bio-mechanics thing (mostly shoulder leverage with body lift and elbow drop, also using the strong range of elbow flex) rather than a "timing" thing. For an explanation, see the videos and articles here:

break technique advice resource page

Enjoy,
Dave

mikemosconi · Oct 23, 2019

dr_dave said:
Another way to describe it is that the follow-through is a symptom of a good, accelerating stroke into the CB. If there is limited follow-through, that is a symptom of poor stroke delivery into the CB (e.g., decelerating into the CB, or adding tension during the stroke). For more info, see:

follow-through resource page

Regards,
Dave

I think this is the correct explanation- follow through is a result of delivering the cue stick to the cue ball with full relaxation of the muscles involved. This is true in most sports - being relaxed at the point of execution (bodily) while being focused simultaneously by sight produces optimum results. That muscle relaxation will result in the observed follow through.

evergruven · Oct 23, 2019

dr_dave said:
This is more of a bio-mechanics thing (mostly shoulder leverage with body lift and elbow drop, also using the strong range of elbow flex) rather than a "timing" thing. For an explanation, see the videos and articles here:

break technique advice resource page

Enjoy,
Dave

I'm not sure about all the physics and whatnot,
but it was watching efren
where I first realized a player could get a longer/more efficient pendulum motion on their break stroke
by choking up on the cue
a result of choking up seems to be potential for
a more comfortable stroke, more power, and control

I admittedly forgot about this, I think because
1. my break is decent
but also
2. I'm now realizing my cue balance point being further back
has subconsciously prevented me from taking advantage of the benefits of choking up

dr_dave · Oct 23, 2019

evergruven said:
dr_dave said:

This is more of a bio-mechanics thing (mostly shoulder leverage with body lift and elbow drop, also using the strong range of elbow flex) rather than a "timing" thing. For an explanation, see the videos and articles here:

break technique advice resource page

Click to expand...

I'm not sure about all the physics and whatnot

The videos and articles on the page explain and demonstrate it fairly clearly if you are interested.

evergruven said:
I'm now realizing my cue balance point being further back has subconsciously prevented me from taking advantage of the benefits of choking up

If you use a closed bridge on the break, it shouldn't matter.

Regards,
Dave

mvp · Oct 23, 2019

dr_dave said:
Another way to describe it is that the follow-through is a symptom of a good, accelerating stroke into the CB. If there is limited follow-through, that is a symptom of poor stroke delivery into the CB (e.g., decelerating into the CB, or adding tension during the stroke). For more info, see:

follow-through resource page

Regards,
Dave

Dr Dave, after contact what happens to the cue is completely irrelevant correct? Once the cueball leaves, follow through doesn’t change a thing. It’s just good mechanics for repeating a decent stroke correct?

dr_dave · Oct 23, 2019

mvp said:
dr_dave said:

Another way to describe it is that the follow-through is a symptom of a good, accelerating stroke into the CB. If there is limited follow-through, that is a symptom of poor stroke delivery into the CB (e.g., decelerating into the CB, or adding tension during the stroke). For more info, see:

follow-through resource page

Click to expand...

Dr Dave, after contact what happens to the cue is completely irrelevant correct? Once the cueball leaves, follow through doesn’t change a thing. It’s just good mechanics for repeating a decent stroke correct?

That's correct. Check out the resource page. It describes everything in detail.

Regards,
Dave

garczar · Oct 23, 2019

mvp said:
Dr Dave, after contact what happens to the cue is completely irrelevant correct? Once the cueball leaves, follow through doesn’t change a thing. It’s just good mechanics for repeating a decent stroke correct?

That's well said. Good mechanics generally produce a good follow thru.

Shuddy · Oct 23, 2019

BRussell said:
Good video. I think a lot of us know that tip contact time isn't increased (despite some debate about it!), but I liked the explanation of how it is involved in timing. I don't think I've seen it explained quite like that before, as an alternative to the "increased tip contact time" idea.

I do not think timing is fully determined by follow-through, though. I don't think the video says that either, but I wonder what other techniques can be used to improve timing. I think my timing on my break could be better, but I'm not quite sure what to do to improve it, or even how to know for sure whether your timing is early or late or right on.

Except tip contact time can increase or decrease: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zH2PHaGl8Ik&t=3m27s

evergruven · Oct 23, 2019

dr_dave said:
The videos and articles on the page explain and demonstrate it fairly clearly if you are interested.

If you use a closed bridge on the break, it shouldn't matter.

Regards,
Dave

hi dave, thanks for the shout and links
I do often use an open bridge on the break
but even if I were to use a closed bridge
I wouldn't want to depend on that to keep my cue down
I'd rather the balance point just be in the right place
that said, I've still yet to possess a cue with a forward-facing balance point
so while that might be good for choking up on the cue
I'm not sure how that would affect the rest of my game
my next cue I hope to find out

ps really enjoyed the new sidespin vid
I like the combination of diagrams and footage of actual play
and as always
the expert commentary:thumbup:
thanks again

dr_dave · Oct 24, 2019

evergruven said:
ps really enjoyed the new sidespin vid
I like the combination of diagrams and footage of actual play
and as always the expert commentary:thumbup:
thanks again

Im glad to hear it.

Thank you,
Dave

8cree · Oct 24, 2019

Another benefit of good follow through is staying down on the shot. We all know how badly jumping/standing up can affect a stroke/shot. Good info here! Thanks for sharing!

Misconception About Follow Through

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