What will it take to Jump start Pool in America

DrawtheRock · Dec 30, 2008

Interest in Pool has be dwindling in the US for quite some time. The Pro Pool Tour doesnt generate enough money for most players to even go from tournament to tournament and many rooms across the United States are closing.

We definitely need several things to happen (including the economy to improve) for pool to be on the upswing again.

Several things I think would help do this..both for short term gains and more importantly long term.

1) Getting the base established-- The kids and young adults need to be interested in pool so that there is a solid base going forward.
--The collegiate straight pool program used to be a very good thing as well as college student unions that used to have quite a few pool tables going in. They dont have straight pool tournaments for colleges anymore (think its 8ball or 9ball) and most the student union people dont know how to run them. NEED THE BCA TO ACTIVELY PROMOTE THESE AND MARKET THEM CORRECTLY. Also, many college student unions have less pool tables. The table companies should help with this market.
Another one is in the bowling alleys. They used to come with quite a few pool tables in them as well, but as we all know the bowling alleys were going out of business as well. Well they are now picking up again and Brunswick is building new bowling centers and gearing them for kids--go on a weekend day and look at all the kids parties (lights out with flourescent balls, kids music playing, areas set up for pizza and cakes)--but one thing was missing. The pool side of things. Big new facilities with 4-6 bar tables in the bar!! No kids going in there!!

2)General Interested Revitalized-- We need another color of money to come out. I think Fatboy's idea for tournaments will be great and hopefully it will be promoted and covered on the internet to get the most out of it (I am sure he will). Jay's book will be good for interest and I am sure a great read, but since it will be many stories it will be hard to make a movie out of it. We need a book that could be made into a movie. Even though it would be heavily based on gambling (so was the hustler and color of money by the way) I think it would be the most entertaining book written. The life of Keith Mcready!! Start from a child and go into his adult life. I think he has been the most colorful character in pool for the past 20-30 years and a biography in Keith could make for a great movie.

What does everybody else think about how we can jumpstart this great sport?

Tom In Cincy · Dec 30, 2008

Can you answer this question?

First:
there is a $500,000,000 stadium being built (Tampa Bay)

Question:
What would that be equal to in the Pocket Billiard industry?

Pocket Billiards needs a new and exciting VISION and someone to make the VISION, reality.

Currently there isn't a product that is worth investing in to the tune of $500Million, is there?

The existing state of pool and its players does not offer any chance of creating change, just status quo. The only change that Pool and its Players can see is a decline in Pool's popularity.

Where are the Visionaries?

The Grinder · Dec 30, 2008

Embrace the reality of pool

I think that pool has been trying (without much success) to present its top players as something they are not. I beleive that pool should embrace its roots and the more colorful side of the sport (Gambling & Sh*t talking) by promoting cash games among top players and televising them with the players wearing mics and without all of the dress codes and other rules that do not present the sport the way it really is.

Poker is a great example of this. Poker After Dark often has high stakes cash games that are telvised and contain foul mouthed rants (Phil Helmuth) and it seems to work for them. I honestly believe at this point it can only help.

TXsouthpaw · Dec 30, 2008

money, and more money. ala ipt except without the con artist running it.

and a REAL hollywood movie. One with a big star and a real budget.

SupaFoo · Dec 30, 2008

I'm not $ure what it i$, but there'$ got to be $omething that can make billiard$ more $ucce$$ful in the U$A...

tjlmbklr · Dec 30, 2008

Me winning the lottery and opening a Banger free pool hall where jumps shots are aloud, masses are for excepted for the gifted and streaming matches are a regular past-time. And I would host a annual AZB kings tourny....Man the ideas are endless and there I just need the cash and lots of it! You'd all come to check it out, right? :welcome:

Big C · Dec 30, 2008

The Grinder said:
I think that pool has been trying (without much success) to present its top players as something they are not. I beleive that pool should embrace its roots and the more colorful side of the sport (Gambling & Sh*t talking) by promoting cash games among top players and televising them with the players wearing mics and without all of the dress codes and other rules that do not present the sport the way it really is.

Poker is a great example of this. Poker After Dark often has high stakes cash games that are telvised and contain foul mouthed rants (Phil Helmuth) and it seems to work for them. I honestly believe at this point it can only help.

I like this idea. I would like to see a reality TV series documenting the lives of several different players. Focusing on the time spent on the road and leading up to a big tournament and the battles through the brackets. Pool could also benefit from another big movie. The last one was, of course, TCOM back in 1986.

gunzby · Dec 30, 2008

Public interest of course. This sport needs a Tiger Woods or Michael Jordan type player. It needs a pro player that takes a casual player into someone who is chomping at the bit to be better. Considering the coverage of pool this may take some time.

It's possible to create interest by having a mega money tourney each year like with poker, but you would also need some personalities in the game to make it more appealing.

Professional fishing is very much the same deal. You may be sponsored, but that doesn't mean you're getting paid by them. You might get a few free lures, reels or rods, but most often you just get a discount. You then pay a thousand or more to enter, live in a motel if you're lucky and a campground or your car if you're the majority. Once you win about $70k for one season you break even which means you'll need to win quite a bit more to pay the bills that aren't fishing related. For every KVD, Jimmy Houston and Bill Dance there are hundreds of guys going broke trying to do something they love. What makes it worse is fishing isn't much of a money game. They make extra cash being nice to the sponsors rich friends and making appearances, but if you aren't very well known you're out of luck.

cmbwsu · Dec 30, 2008

Live Stream "May" Help

The public has a very negative view concerning anything billiards/pool related. The hollywood stigma has put things in a very bad light -- for the most part anyway -- for quite some time now. That is not easy to circumvent. Of late, live streaming has become bigger and bigger and, if handled right, could be part, albeit a small part but a part nonetheless, of our saving grace.

I have been researching and finding lots of live streaming sites (see link below) where interest from future players and sponsors are growing. As an example, just the other night I let it be known to viewers (at two different sites) that I had a list of live pool streaming sites if anyone was interested. I received 112 PMs and sent them all the list. I received almost a like amount of thank-you responses along with comments such as:

a) "I have always wanted to get involved in pool but was afraid of the environment that surrounds it. Now I can see I was wrong."

b) "Bob, I had no idea it was like this. I seen men and women, young and old, all involved and interacting in a way I did not expect. Very nice."

c) "I especially like the way the chat room was handled. If anyone tried to spam or talk out of hand, like they do at Yahoo and other pool game sites I've been going to, the moderator warned them once politely and immediately banned them explaining that "this or that" cannot be tolerated. What an image shift I have gotten since finding this site." (Site: http://www.ontherailtv.com/ )

d.) ".....I really want to start learning how to play now."

e) "I never knew people could control the cue ball like that. I want to learn how to do that. Where can I go to ......" (Gave a list of questions and I provided answers as best I could)

If I continued I would fill up this whole thread -- I think you got my point.

The way I see it, moderators and players alike need to conduct themselves in such a way as to counteract the hollywood image in order to bring more followers (viewers), create new players, and increase sponsorships. The age old adage must apply: Promote "the" game, not "my" game attitude must be prevalent both behind and in front of the camera -- then there are the forums :wink:.

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=125477

Bob

SteveH · Dec 30, 2008

Bob,
This is awesome that you put together a big list for people and really appreciate it. I think the streaming era is here and just really starting to catch on. So far I feel it has been nothing but a positive for a lot of people. thanks
:thumbup:
STEVE

gunzby · Dec 30, 2008

If I ever win the Powerball I would have three things on my agenda.
- Pay off all my bills
- Open up my dream pool hall
- Promote The World Series of Pool with pots big enough to raise an eyebrow.

sjm · Dec 30, 2008

The Grinder said:
I think that pool has been trying (without much success) to present its top players as something they are not. I beleive that pool should embrace its roots and the more colorful side of the sport (Gambling & Sh*t talking) by promoting cash games among top players and televising them with the players wearing mics and without all of the dress codes and other rules that do not present the sport the way it really is.

Poker is a great example of this. Poker After Dark often has high stakes cash games that are telvised and contain foul mouthed rants (Phil Helmuth) and it seems to work for them. I honestly believe at this point it can only help.

I don't think poker is a good example of anything.

I watched the World Series of Poker last week on TV and the announcer noted that the winner of the main event was the sixth consecutive amateur winner. People play poker for the same reason they play the lottery --- because there's a chance at great fame and fortune, and even though it's not likely, it's worth a shot. Poker players, like lottery players, as a group are losing money, with no money added at the World Series of Poker. but the top guys are walking away with so much that it entices potential participants. When six amateurs in a row win the World Pool Championship, pool can expect fields of thousands willing to ante up a $10,000 entry fee.

Another issue is that Poker is an adult's game. Only a few who play in the World Series of Poker are young. Taking the poker approach is fine if you want to keep out the kids, and maybe that would work. My guess, however, is that it would not.

The unsuitability of the typical poolroom for kids was drilled home for me earlier today when I shot at a poolroom (not my usual room) generally considered one of the New York City area's better ones. There was action in progress and there was sharking, gamesmanship, name calling, loud foul language and a generally boisterous atmosphere. The room management did nothing to discourage the gamblers from this kind of behavior. I recall looking at my opponent and commenting "if you want to know why pool in America is in trouble, just listen. If you were here with your kid, is there any chance that you wouldn't leave rather than subject a youngster to this?" A kid-friendly poolroom is neither a reality nor a priority in most of the poolrooms you find, and it's a sad truth in our game.

Kids, far more than adults, idolize sports stars, but if we continue to manage pool in America in a way that deal the kids out of the poolroom, few young people will ever care about pro pool players, and for that very reason, pro pool players will never be a) big stars, or b) popular choices to sell key products to some very important consumer groups.

Pool can continue to embrace and be defined by its seedier side, but such a direction is fundamentally at odds with attracting youthful players, which I believe is the only path to achieving the kind of vitality we all dream of in this sport.

Paul Schofield · Dec 30, 2008

No one knows what it will take to jump start pool.

An up and coming player set up the balls in an impossible situation and asked a wise old player what he would do in this spot. The wise old player looked at the situation and replied "I don't know what I would do from here, but I would certainly try to figure out how I got in this spot and try to fix that!"

The question should be "Why does pool need jump started?"

poolmouse · Dec 30, 2008

sjm said:
I don't think poker is a good example of anything.
...[snip]...
Pool can continue to embrace and be defined by its seedier side, but such a direction is fundamentally at odds with attracting youthful players, which I believe is the only path to achieving the kind of vitality we all dream of in this sport.

Well said. I can't believe there are people who think trash talking and attitude is going to advance the game's popularity.

Poolmouse

219Dave · Dec 30, 2008

I'm just wondering out loud here, and don't have the answer, but I'd like to hear more about the link between how strong pro pool is and how popular pool is in America. People in these threads often attribute the downslide in pool's general popularity to the sorry state of pro pool. Do you guys think that this is the case? I played a lot of pool in high school and college, and I doubt that any of my buddies had ever heard of any pro pool players other than Minnesota Fats. I don't think that TCOM (which came out while I was in college) gave pool a huge bump amongst my friends.

I know that some people here object to the parallels, but if pro golf ceased to exist do you think that all the golf fanatics that I work with would stop playing on the weekends? Would the local card games dry up if televised pro poker disapeared?

Again, I don't know the answers here, but it seems to me that pro tournament pool, serious pool hall pool, and the popularity of pool with casual people in the general public are separate spheres that only have some overlap.

I'm sure that other people have mentioned this at some point, but I also wonder how much the rise of video games and the internet has drawn teenagers away from pool.

(It's late and I'm tired, so forgive me if I'm not getting my point across).

Colin Colenso · Dec 30, 2008

imho, the only way to make pool a high profile sport is to create appealing content.

That may be Tournament coverage, movies, tv shows or video games.

Currently, I think the content is pretty bland for all but the dedicated enthusiast. I dought 9-ball, 10-ball, straight pool or 8-ball will ever be popular content.

Trick shots have had moderate success, but even I fall asleep between shots watching that.

The average joe doesn't want to see players shoot shots that they think they can make. 80% of the shots in current games look easy. There's no WOW factor in that.

btw: In poker, the WOW factor came when they started showing the players' cards. The audience became IN on the game.

Colin

David Beck · Dec 30, 2008

Just need an official tour with a lot of money, clear rules, watchable content, and something to spark interest.

chazdillon · Dec 30, 2008

its going to take the companies making millions of dollars every year off of us and league players to contribute back to the sport. the same way golf sponsors drop millions of dollars on a weekend tourney. the interest of watching a match with a first prize of 5k is not as interesting as 100k or more. thank viking for there tour but ask them why they are a million dollar buisness every year and the payouts at there tour stops are 2k.

the player points are helping the same way tennis players are ranked in the world. u dont see alot of tennis on tv but sponsors are paying top dollar and have huge events.

also look how many people are playing texas holdem after the start of the wsop. look at how much its grown over the past 6 years. its unreal. so my answer is huge payouts. if u build it they will come.

also espn needs to give the men some airtime. im tired of watching women not run out. no offense to the ladies.

The Grinder · Dec 30, 2008

True Life - I'm a pool player or hustler

Big C said:
I like this idea. I would like to see a reality TV series documenting the lives of several different players. Focusing on the time spent on the road and leading up to a big tournament and the battles through the brackets. Pool could also benefit from another big movie. The last one was, of course, TCOM back in 1986.

I think it has be as good as some of these other ideas they are working on. The other thing is they have a young audience. Someone should at least submit the idea.

http://www.mtv.com/ontv/castingcall/index.jhtml?castingId=1486761

manwon · Dec 31, 2008

DrawtheRock said:
Interest in Pool has be dwindling in the US for quite some time. The Pro Pool Tour doesnt generate enough money for most players to even go from tournament to tournament and many rooms across the United States are closing.

We definitely need several things to happen (including the economy to improve) for pool to be on the upswing again.

Several things I think would help do this..both for short term gains and more importantly long term.

1) Getting the base established-- The kids and young adults need to be interested in pool so that there is a solid base going forward.
--The collegiate straight pool program used to be a very good thing as well as college student unions that used to have quite a few pool tables going in. They dont have straight pool tournaments for colleges anymore (think its 8ball or 9ball) and most the student union people dont know how to run them. NEED THE BCA TO ACTIVELY PROMOTE THESE AND MARKET THEM CORRECTLY. Also, many college student unions have less pool tables. The table companies should help with this market.
Another one is in the bowling alleys. They used to come with quite a few pool tables in them as well, but as we all know the bowling alleys were going out of business as well. Well they are now picking up again and Brunswick is building new bowling centers and gearing them for kids--go on a weekend day and look at all the kids parties (lights out with flourescent balls, kids music playing, areas set up for pizza and cakes)--but one thing was missing. The pool side of things. Big new facilities with 4-6 bar tables in the bar!! No kids going in there!!

2)General Interested Revitalized-- We need another color of money to come out. I think Fatboy's idea for tournaments will be great and hopefully it will be promoted and covered on the internet to get the most out of it (I am sure he will). Jay's book will be good for interest and I am sure a great read, but since it will be many stories it will be hard to make a movie out of it. We need a book that could be made into a movie. Even though it would be heavily based on gambling (so was the hustler and color of money by the way) I think it would be the most entertaining book written. The life of Keith Mcready!! Start from a child and go into his adult life. I think he has been the most colorful character in pool for the past 20-30 years and a biography in Keith could make for a great movie.

What does everybody else think about how we can jumpstart this great sport?

The following is my opinion, I mean no disrespect to anyone.

1. Pool and Billiards needs a Governing Body, currently there is nothing that fills this requirement in the United States. This Governing Body must then promote Pool and Billiards to Americas youth. This could be done many ways, but the simplest way would be to promote our sport to our youth through Youth Organizations, and forming a league similar to the APA and BCA based upon age groups and skill levels. The funding could come from Billiard Wholesalers and Pool Room owners Nation wide.

2. Next a new pool league would need to be formed nationally as a stepping stone to the Pro-tour. The APA and the BCA leagues are great for B and below players, however, once some one gets to the upper level of the BCA they only have one alternative and that is the road. By introducing a league where players can qualify for the spots at Pro-tour stops would enhance further interest, and the new faces would have people who are not really interested watching and cheering for their home town boy.

To date Pool and Billiards has given itself a black eye on far to many occasions. The sport and the Pro-players have been run through the mill by dishonest promoters, by sponsors who did not really understand the sport in general, and by the News Media who only print the negative side of the sport. In my opinion the closest sport to pool and billiards is Golf, and Golf would certainly be a great sport to pattern our sport after.

This is just my opinion, but I do not think we can expect anything to change unless Americas Youth somehow becomes interested.

What will it take to Jump start Pool in America

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