The Playing Conditions
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8-ball bernie
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The Playing Conditions - 09-14-2006, 10:19 AM

i may have posted this before, but it bears repeating, the conditions wer'e so muther tough that jason miller and i, on the eve of the tournament, complained to the IPT that this is not slow cloth,here's the deal~~~~~~ the IPT claims that they use a special slow nap cloth made to make the game more challenging, well, my pool friends, the cloth is anything BUT slow! it's full of unpredictable slide, and i mean SLIDE!!!!!!!! now, add to that, balls that are so clean, they slip, through your fingers when handeling them, and then tight pockets, now you have a table that is really incredibly tough, anyone who saw my matches told me i played fantastic, so why the low scores? i couldn't finish out because of all the sliding!!! i am not kidding folks, this is the most slippery surface ever! it was like playing on clean glass! completly unpredictable! so much so, that jon speigal of gorina, looked at what i was saying and he is going to try to make it an actual "slow" cloth. between very clean slippery balls, cloth that played like glass, and tight little pockets, it's amazing anyone played as well as they did. the next time you hear them say, they are playing on slow napped cloth, DON'T BELIEVE THEM!!!!!!!!!!
  
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09-14-2006, 10:40 AM

Yes, the cloth was faster than I had anticipated. Yes, I hung a couple balls because the ball skidded on me. But other than that, I thought the conditions were good. I liked the speed and thought it was actually just right. I actually thought the conditions were easier than the NAO (and the stats will bear me out) because I saw balls hitting above the pocket on the rail and still going in, where they sure wouldn't do that before or on my table at home.

If you slow rolled, the ball would wobble back and forth at the end, but they also did it around the Sardo rack area (caught on tape in the Jasmin/Earl match).

Overall, I liked the conditions.


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09-14-2006, 11:44 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by rackmsuckr
If you slow rolled, the ball would wobble back and forth at the end, but they also did it around the Sardo rack area (caught on tape in the Jasmin/Earl match)
Hi Linda,

I'd sure love to see that match. You mentioned in an earlier thread you wouldn't mind uploading it so we all could see it, www.megashares.com allows files upto 1500MB. Thanks in advance.

gr. Dave


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09-14-2006, 11:57 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by rackmsuckr
If you slow rolled, the ball would wobble back and forth at the end, but they also did it around the Sardo rack area (caught on tape in the Jasmin/Earl match).
You can actually clearly see this in the finals as well. To get position on the final 8 in the last rack, Efren played a dicey inside-english, two-rail position shot to get underneath the 8.

It seemed like Efren hit the shot too hard. However, at the very end of the CB's journey, the CB actually rocked backwards in the opposite direcction...giving Efren a decent better angle on the final 8 to the far corner.

If the CB rocked further in the forward direction, Efren would have either had a much tougher shot on the 8 if he wasn't already hooked by a stripe.

I believe the area on the table was where they racked the balls, so i'm sure the Sardo rack had something to do with it as well.
  
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09-14-2006, 12:48 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by rackmsuckr
Yes, the cloth was faster than I had anticipated. Yes, I hung a couple balls because the ball skidded on me. But other than that, I thought the conditions were good. I liked the speed and thought it was actually just right. I actually thought the conditions were easier than the NAO (and the stats will bear me out) because I saw balls hitting above the pocket on the rail and still going in, where they sure wouldn't do that before or on my table at home.

If you slow rolled, the ball would wobble back and forth at the end, but they also did it around the Sardo rack area (caught on tape in the Jasmin/Earl match).

Overall, I liked the conditions.

Hey Ram, did the cloth play differently after a few days of play?
  
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09-14-2006, 05:29 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by 8-ball bernie
i played fantastic, so why the low scores?
Because your opponants were better players than you...

When I lose, I know its my skill that caused my loss and I never make up excuses. If i lose, I was the weaker player... If I win, I got lucky. Thats all you will ever hear from me.


To me, it looks like those tables played pretty good. I saw several shots fall that would have NEVER fallen on my table. My table is tighter (4.375) which I don't think is the real reason. Its the cut of the pocket that makes poorly hit balls fall on tight tables. There were many poorly hit balls falling that I could see. This leads me to believe those diamonds have a "friendly" angle to the pockets... One of these days I plan on taking a shim out of each facing to allow a hair more margin of error...

As far as the sliding, all new cloth does that and you can compensate for it. Not sure why you can not make the adjustments needed since you know about the condition... Several other players made the appropriate adjustments. You should mimic them is my advice...
  
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lol - 09-14-2006, 05:34 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by 8-ball bernie
i may have posted this before, but it bears repeating, the conditions wer'e so muther tough that jason miller and i, on the eve of the tournament, complained to the IPT that this is not slow cloth,here's the deal~~~~~~ the IPT claims that they use a special slow nap cloth made to make the game more challenging, well, my pool friends, the cloth is anything BUT slow! it's full of unpredictable slide, and i mean SLIDE!!!!!!!! now, add to that, balls that are so clean, they slip, through your fingers when handeling them, and then tight pockets, now you have a table that is really incredibly tough, anyone who saw my matches told me i played fantastic, so why the low scores? i couldn't finish out because of all the sliding!!! i am not kidding folks, this is the most slippery surface ever! it was like playing on clean glass! completly unpredictable! so much so, that jon speigal of gorina, looked at what i was saying and he is going to try to make it an actual "slow" cloth. between very clean slippery balls, cloth that played like glass, and tight little pockets, it's amazing anyone played as well as they did. the next time you hear them say, they are playing on slow napped cloth, DON'T BELIEVE THEM!!!!!!!!!!

Hey Bernie, from what I hear, you make a bar box table like a snooker table all on your own, no matter what cloth is in use!!!
  
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09-14-2006, 05:49 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Island Drive
Hey Ram, did the cloth play differently after a few days of play?
Well now, I wouldn't know now, would I? LOL! Actually, my husband says no. I did notice the TV tables played a little slower, probably due to the hot lights above it, and not the regular lighting.

The TV table I played on against Sigel at the NAO played drastically slower than the other tables.


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09-14-2006, 05:52 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Double-Dave
Hi Linda,

I'd sure love to see that match. You mentioned in an earlier thread you wouldn't mind uploading it so we all could see it, www.megashares.com allows files upto 1500MB. Thanks in advance.

gr. Dave
Well, I have it in my computer now, but there is one section where I would rather not have the world hear what Mike and I were saying, lol. So I found a perfect audio file to dub over the top, but haven't figured out how to do that yet.


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09-14-2006, 06:04 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by rackmsuckr
Well now, I wouldn't know now, would I? LOL! Actually, my husband says no. I did notice the TV tables played a little slower, probably due to the hot lights above it, and not the regular lighting.

The TV table I played on against Sigel at the NAO played drastically slower than the other tables.
Warm cloths play faster.

Gabber....BTW all new cloths slide.
  
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09-14-2006, 06:23 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabber
Warm cloths play faster.

Gabber....BTW all new cloths slide.
I am quite aware of both facts, but but I also think the hot lights made it muggier or something. Perhaps because they were farther away, heck, I don't know. All I know is that the one I played on was slower. And the slide wasn't consistent on every ball.


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09-14-2006, 07:00 PM

The question is, WAS it new cloth? Or was it the same cloth on the tables (I'm assuming they were the same tables) at the NA Open? Did they leave the cloth on, or did they recover the tables for this event?


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09-14-2006, 10:58 PM

Same cloth as the NA open.
  
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Talking 09-15-2006, 12:05 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by rackmsuckr
Well, I have it in my computer now, but there is one section where I would rather not have the world hear what Mike and I were saying, lol. So I found a perfect audio file to dub over the top, but haven't figured out how to do that yet.

waaah im curious haha
  
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09-15-2006, 01:18 AM

If anything, I think the pockets played too big on these tables. The reason that there is almost no grip on the rails.

I think the IPT will have to change their decision on the cloth. The slide is just way more than I have ever seen on any other table, and to make matters worse, it seems everyone I talked to who has the cloth on their home tables finds that the tables quickly tighten up and play much slower and grippier to what we see in the tournaments. The main reason is humidity I believe. These venues have had extremely dry air.

My home table plays nothing like the IPT comp tables despite having the same cloth. It is a total waste of time practicing position. I just have to completely re-learn when I get to the event.

For that reason alone I think they should change to a thinner worsted cloth, that should have closer playing conditions to what we can maintain on our home tables.

Colin


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