Go Back   AzBilliards.com > Main Category > Main Forum
Reload this Page What Did You Say, Mr. Shaw?
Reply
 
Share Thread Tools Rate Thread
What Did You Say, Mr. Shaw?
Old
  (#1)
Kickin' Chicken
Kick Shot Afficionado
Kickin' Chicken has a reputation beyond reputeKickin' Chicken has a reputation beyond reputeKickin' Chicken has a reputation beyond reputeKickin' Chicken has a reputation beyond reputeKickin' Chicken has a reputation beyond reputeKickin' Chicken has a reputation beyond reputeKickin' Chicken has a reputation beyond reputeKickin' Chicken has a reputation beyond reputeKickin' Chicken has a reputation beyond reputeKickin' Chicken has a reputation beyond reputeKickin' Chicken has a reputation beyond repute
 
Kickin' Chicken's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 10,222
vCash: 1700
iTrader: 209 / 100%
Blog Entries: 1
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: the Coop deVille
   
Question What Did You Say, Mr. Shaw? - 06-23-2015, 05:16 AM

Jayson was sitting in the booth on Upstate Al's stream Sunday night during the semi-final match between Jeremy and Jorge and he was commenting instructively about the 10b break.

It was specifically to do with how Jeremy had it figured out well breaking from the head rail, bridging on the cushion.

I was distracted with friends here and couldn't get all of what he was saying.

Anyone else get it all and can share?

TIA

best,
brian kc


"Don't let your alligator mouth overload your jaybird ass!" - my Father

"That was stronger than cat piss, right there." - Brandon Shuff


Playing cues: Tim Scruggs - Jeff Olney
Break cue: Predator BK2 w/White Diamond Tip
Jump cue: Jacoby/Lomax
  
Reply With Quote

Old
  (#2)
pooln8r
AzB Silver Member
pooln8r has a reputation beyond reputepooln8r has a reputation beyond reputepooln8r has a reputation beyond reputepooln8r has a reputation beyond reputepooln8r has a reputation beyond reputepooln8r has a reputation beyond reputepooln8r has a reputation beyond reputepooln8r has a reputation beyond reputepooln8r has a reputation beyond reputepooln8r has a reputation beyond reputepooln8r has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 1,005
vCash: 500
iTrader: 15 / 100%
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Central NJ
   
06-23-2015, 07:09 AM

Hey Brian.... I hope Jayson comes on here and clarifies but what I heard was that Jeremy was breaking off the rail to have a better shot at making one of the second row balls. I didn't exactly catch in great detail what was being discussed either but it sounded like the explanation was specific to playing on certain gold crowns and the downward angle that the cue has when breaking off the rail was the solution.

I really hope I'm not getting this wrong but it seems that when breaking from the rail to a 10 ball rack on these gold crowns that using the rail creates that pop or upward movement on the cue ball and this action makes it more likely that the two balls behind the head ball may end up in a side pocket. Seemed to work really well for Jeremy and Jayson.

Good shooting to you!

Kevin

Last edited by pooln8r; 06-23-2015 at 07:36 AM. Reason: remove front as I meant to just say rail.
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#3)
hang-the-9
AzB Silver Member
hang-the-9 has a reputation beyond reputehang-the-9 has a reputation beyond reputehang-the-9 has a reputation beyond reputehang-the-9 has a reputation beyond reputehang-the-9 has a reputation beyond reputehang-the-9 has a reputation beyond reputehang-the-9 has a reputation beyond reputehang-the-9 has a reputation beyond reputehang-the-9 has a reputation beyond reputehang-the-9 has a reputation beyond reputehang-the-9 has a reputation beyond repute
 
hang-the-9's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 10,671
vCash: 1700
iTrader: 9 / 100%
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: MA
   
06-23-2015, 07:28 AM

He said that racking the way he was, he was aiming the 1 ball at the sides with the side break. There was some talk about the fact that he was racking bellow the center of the spot, and they were told that it was in the rules (+-1" from center is OK according to what they were saying, although that seems a LOT of variance, maybe they meant centimeter and not inches. Or maybe they meant it was ok to be in a line 1" from center so that would be 1/2 inch in either direction.

Where he was racking was sending the 1 ball to the sides, where racking right at the spot would not or be harder.

To make the second balls you have to hit more from a center break like what SVB and Dechaine do. Looks like the side rail break and raking a bit off center sends the 1 to the side like in 9 ball.


"I'll back you against anyone, as long as you did not know you were playng for money"

Charter member of the D-Bag Club, we stick to the letter of the rules not the spirit, and up yours!
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#4)
pooln8r
AzB Silver Member
pooln8r has a reputation beyond reputepooln8r has a reputation beyond reputepooln8r has a reputation beyond reputepooln8r has a reputation beyond reputepooln8r has a reputation beyond reputepooln8r has a reputation beyond reputepooln8r has a reputation beyond reputepooln8r has a reputation beyond reputepooln8r has a reputation beyond reputepooln8r has a reputation beyond reputepooln8r has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 1,005
vCash: 500
iTrader: 15 / 100%
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Central NJ
   
06-23-2015, 07:40 AM

hang-the-9 is right they also talked about where he was racking. Seems it was allowed for people to rack something like a ball above or below the spot and Jeremy was racking somewhere below the spot. Also seemed like Mike Wong had figured out the same break strategy and he was racking a bit behind the spot to get the same effect.
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#5)
ssbn610g
AzB Silver Member
ssbn610g has a reputation beyond reputessbn610g has a reputation beyond reputessbn610g has a reputation beyond reputessbn610g has a reputation beyond reputessbn610g has a reputation beyond reputessbn610g has a reputation beyond reputessbn610g has a reputation beyond reputessbn610g has a reputation beyond reputessbn610g has a reputation beyond reputessbn610g has a reputation beyond reputessbn610g has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 308
vCash: 500
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Mass.
   
06-23-2015, 07:44 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by pooln8r View Post
Hey Brian.... I hope Jayson comes on here and clarifies but what I heard was that Jeremy was breaking off the rail to have a better shot at making one of the second row balls. I didn't exactly catch in great detail what was being discussed either but it sounded like the explanation was specific to playing on certain gold crowns and the downward angle that the cue has when breaking off the rail was the solution.

I really hope I'm not getting this wrong but it seems that when breaking from the rail to a 10 ball rack on these gold crowns that using the rail creates that pop or upward movement on the cue ball and this action makes it more likely that the two balls behind the head ball may end up in a side pocket. Seemed to work really well for Jeremy and Jayson.

Good shooting to you!

Kevin
This is exactly what I heard. There is a youtube video from the Philippines that describes a break with the intention of making either or both of the second row balls. I have tried to make this work but I can't seem to make the balls consistently.

Al


"I think a man does what he can, until his destiny is revealed."
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#6)
hang-the-9
AzB Silver Member
hang-the-9 has a reputation beyond reputehang-the-9 has a reputation beyond reputehang-the-9 has a reputation beyond reputehang-the-9 has a reputation beyond reputehang-the-9 has a reputation beyond reputehang-the-9 has a reputation beyond reputehang-the-9 has a reputation beyond reputehang-the-9 has a reputation beyond reputehang-the-9 has a reputation beyond reputehang-the-9 has a reputation beyond reputehang-the-9 has a reputation beyond repute
 
hang-the-9's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 10,671
vCash: 1700
iTrader: 9 / 100%
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: MA
   
06-23-2015, 07:47 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by pooln8r View Post
hang-the-9 is right they also talked about where he was racking. Seems it was allowed for people to rack something like a ball above or below the spot and Jeremy was racking somewhere below the spot. Also seemed like Mike Wong had figured out the same break strategy and he was racking a bit behind the spot to get the same effect.
The one I heard was about Mike breaking, that's the match I saw, and Jorge was the one that went over to see if where he was racking was legal.

They both played good, but it was getting very late and I had to turn it off before the end and the finals.


"I'll back you against anyone, as long as you did not know you were playng for money"

Charter member of the D-Bag Club, we stick to the letter of the rules not the spirit, and up yours!
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#7)
ssbn610g
AzB Silver Member
ssbn610g has a reputation beyond reputessbn610g has a reputation beyond reputessbn610g has a reputation beyond reputessbn610g has a reputation beyond reputessbn610g has a reputation beyond reputessbn610g has a reputation beyond reputessbn610g has a reputation beyond reputessbn610g has a reputation beyond reputessbn610g has a reputation beyond reputessbn610g has a reputation beyond reputessbn610g has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 308
vCash: 500
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Mass.
   
06-23-2015, 08:01 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by hang-the-9 View Post
The one I heard was about Mike breaking, that's the match I saw, and Jorge was the one that went over to see if where he was racking was legal.

They both played good, but it was getting very late and I had to turn it off before the end and the finals.
There was also a discussion between Mike Wong and Jayson about the rack and how much it could be off the spot and the fact that Jayson thought Mike was angling the rack a bit. Robles made a ruling and I believe allowed what Mike was doing. I think Mike was trying to make the corner balls by going three rails.

Al


"I think a man does what he can, until his destiny is revealed."
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#8)
cleary
Honestly, I'm a liar.
cleary has a reputation beyond reputecleary has a reputation beyond reputecleary has a reputation beyond reputecleary has a reputation beyond reputecleary has a reputation beyond reputecleary has a reputation beyond reputecleary has a reputation beyond reputecleary has a reputation beyond reputecleary has a reputation beyond reputecleary has a reputation beyond reputecleary has a reputation beyond repute
 
cleary's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 9,337
vCash: 8500
iTrader: 18 / 100%
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Clearwater, FL
  Send a message via AIM to cleary  
06-23-2015, 09:30 AM

I wasn't listening but the speed and stroke that you hit a 10ball break is pretty important and people can try to imitate what others do but I think results will vary. Watch Shane warmup or when he plays a race to 100, it takes him a lot of racks to really find his speed that opens the balls the way he wants. When he does, it's over.
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#9)
7forlife
AzB Silver Member
7forlife has a reputation beyond repute7forlife has a reputation beyond repute7forlife has a reputation beyond repute7forlife has a reputation beyond repute7forlife has a reputation beyond repute7forlife has a reputation beyond repute7forlife has a reputation beyond repute7forlife has a reputation beyond repute7forlife has a reputation beyond repute7forlife has a reputation beyond repute7forlife has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 1,448
vCash: 500
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: May 2010
   
06-23-2015, 11:06 AM

Here is what i know for sure.
Mike Wong was racking a bit low but Tony said it was ok if necessary to freeze the balls. (didn't notice this with other, just didn't notice not insinuating anything). Now jason told Jeremy that he was breaking off the back rail in order to reduce the speed so he could get a better break, I guess the change in distance was more effective than breaking from the string and trying to slow your speed down. I guess Jeremy's timing was near perfect on that.


Why did you spend the money on a Predator shaft, your problem is aiming not deflection

The less you BET, the more you lose when you WIN

I'm sorry to tell you but your problem was not bad rolls, it was bad decisions
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#10)
actionplayer
AzB Silver Member
actionplayer has a reputation beyond reputeactionplayer has a reputation beyond reputeactionplayer has a reputation beyond reputeactionplayer has a reputation beyond reputeactionplayer has a reputation beyond reputeactionplayer has a reputation beyond reputeactionplayer has a reputation beyond reputeactionplayer has a reputation beyond reputeactionplayer has a reputation beyond reputeactionplayer has a reputation beyond reputeactionplayer has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 663
vCash: 500
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: Aug 2014
   
06-23-2015, 11:44 AM

I heard part about racking below the spot trying to make one ball
Jayson also said mike wing would never beat him breaking like that
True he won 7-2 both times
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#11)
Baxter
Out To Win
Baxter has a reputation beyond reputeBaxter has a reputation beyond reputeBaxter has a reputation beyond reputeBaxter has a reputation beyond reputeBaxter has a reputation beyond reputeBaxter has a reputation beyond reputeBaxter has a reputation beyond reputeBaxter has a reputation beyond reputeBaxter has a reputation beyond reputeBaxter has a reputation beyond reputeBaxter has a reputation beyond repute
 
Baxter's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 1,543
vCash: 25
iTrader: 8 / 100%
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: West Coast
   
06-23-2015, 11:51 AM

I wasn't watching so I don't know what you guys are talking about, but I'll share that I break 10 ball better when breaking from the head rail. I don't try to break hard, instead I focus on "dropping" the tip into the cue ball with a nice and relaxed grip hand. The result is a good spread with the "pop-and-squat" cue ball. If I'm not making one of the second row balls in the side pocket, I simply move the cue ball in or out depending upon where the ball is hitting on the rail. Never really change speed. Just my two cents.


"Are you gonna bark all day little doggie? Or are you gonna bite?" - Mr. Blonde
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#12)
hang-the-9
AzB Silver Member
hang-the-9 has a reputation beyond reputehang-the-9 has a reputation beyond reputehang-the-9 has a reputation beyond reputehang-the-9 has a reputation beyond reputehang-the-9 has a reputation beyond reputehang-the-9 has a reputation beyond reputehang-the-9 has a reputation beyond reputehang-the-9 has a reputation beyond reputehang-the-9 has a reputation beyond reputehang-the-9 has a reputation beyond reputehang-the-9 has a reputation beyond repute
 
hang-the-9's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 10,671
vCash: 1700
iTrader: 9 / 100%
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: MA
   
06-23-2015, 12:43 PM

This is one of the things that look like magic to the non-players or even players that don't study the game.

The break seems random and mysterious, yet if you know what is going on and how, it's very clear. 10 ball has 3 ways to make a more or less aimed shot at the break, 2 balls behind the 1 in the side, head ball in the side and back 2 balls 3 rails.

8 ball is also second 2 balls if you use the head on break (not the second ball break), I am not sure which other balls you can aim there. I think that the back 2 balls can bank cross corner the long way if nothing gets in the way maybe?

9 ball is 1 ball in side or corner balls in corner pockets.

And the neat part is that once you know, you can see who else knows that you play and gauge their knowledge and ability by how they rack and break probably as easily as you can by how they play.

Since I like giving examples , in the local tournament we play no 9 on break as a win, one of the guys was racking loose and sending the 9 to the corner anyway. It's pretty clear he was trying to have the 9 sit in front of the pocket for an early combo if he made a ball, the 9 was going out of the rack every time towards the corner. I politely told him to cut that shit out and play fair.


"I'll back you against anyone, as long as you did not know you were playng for money"

Charter member of the D-Bag Club, we stick to the letter of the rules not the spirit, and up yours!
  
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.