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06-10-2019, 10:01 AM

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Originally Posted by ENGLISH! View Post
Okay, we are more on the same page as I thought that we were.

As for the straight in shot... as seen by whom? We have pocket slop.

As PJ said, Human Vision itself is a subjective thing. My vision has gone through some changes & is probably still in the process of changing. I can place the stick down on the table corner to corner with the CB & an OB straight into a corner pocket. While standing tall & looking at it from above I am left eye dominant & will see it as straight, but if I bend down & look down the length of the stick it will then not look straight & vise versa. If I set it straight while down & then get up & look at it then it will not look straight.

I do not think we as human beings have "objective" vision.

Now that said we "know" that if a shot IS straight & the stick is placed on the line through the centers of the ball & moved on that line to strike the CB in the center so the it hits the center of the OB on that line it will move along that straight line into the center of the pocket. That is Objective KNOWLEDGE. We have similar Objective Knowledge for Cut shots but not so easily described.

I hope you can understand what I have said here.

Also a straight in shot does NOT have CIT to be dealt with regardless of speed. Per your statement about Poolology accounting for throw for a rolling CB, how so? How would the Geometry do that?

Perhaps I am going too deep into this, but I do not see the Natural Laws of Physics being taken into account by a geometric system. Math is what man has devised to try to explain the Natural Laws of Physics.

I will concede that at a rolling ball speed the CIT may not be enough to throw the ball out of the pocket but should certainly throw it off of the center line.

When you spoke, were you referring to Poolology with the arcs or after the straight line conversions?

Thanks Much for the 'conversational' discussion. I am NOT trying to find fault with Poolology. It is just that your statement that it accounts for normal CIT sounds familiar, if you know what I mean.

Best Wishes,
RJ
The absolute best way to make straight in and almost straight in shots that I have ever come across is CTE.


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06-10-2019, 10:07 AM

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Originally Posted by BC21 View Post
Hunter is a pro, hardly missed prior to being dialed into CTE. Same with Stan, Brandon, Stevie, etc... Landon, Tyler, Matt, and a good number more who have yet to be mentioned because they're not certified to teach yet or still taking lessons to solidify it.
But the question you should be asking is WHY did they completely abandon what they used over the years to learn something so visually different that allows them to have LESS misses and become MORE consistent? Didn't that ever occur to you?

None of them are STUPID! Nobody wants to get WORSE! The individuals above can't afford to screw up their earnings and careers. Hunter is extremely intelligent.
All of them are. Tyler made the Mosconi Cup after getting it internalized.

The biggest mouths on this forum have never won a tournament of any consequence in pro pool or amateur pool. Every naysayer troll against CTE would run like dogs with a scalded butt if ever challenged to play a money match with the names above.

Cookie takes a lot of crap on here but who has finished higher than he has in the US Amateur which was either 12th or 15th. Doesn't matter, either one is crazy good.
We're not talking about the small pool of guys, pros and amateurs, that play in a large known annual tournament. We're talking about the thousands and thousands of pool players all across the country who have the skills and cajones to belly up to play in the US Open and not look like fools. They aren't bar table hacks.

More will have greater success in the future also.

All you guys want to do is NITPICK and PARSE WORDS AND MEANINGS.as the only tournament you'll attempt to win on a forum that resembles pool.

Gets sickening...IS SICKENING!

What do ALL of them know that you (plural) DON'T?

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06-10-2019, 10:11 AM

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Originally Posted by sixpack View Post
The absolute best way to make straight in and almost straight in shots that I have ever come across is CTE.
Regas, how does pivoting make straight in shots easier for you? I'm seriously interested.

pj <- and when are you coming to play some more?
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06-10-2019, 10:45 AM

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Originally Posted by BC21 View Post
Hunter is a pro, hardly missed prior to being dialed into CTE. Same with Stan, Brandon, Stevie, etc...

But it really doesn't matter. As much as we want to believe we all have perfect spacial skills, pinpointing an exact spot on anything without a visual marker narrows down to individual opinion, which is the official definition of subjective. What I'm calling a quarter of ball's width may be a millimeter more or a millimeter less than what you or anyone else would call an exact quarter. It's just not objective, not even after doing it a million times and solidifying it in your brain, because it's your brain and no one else is using that particular data. It only feels objective because you are 100% dialed into it. Acquiring a particular skill through repetition, rote, doesn't make it an objective process. If it requires an individual to use personal judgment, opinion, thought, etc... it's subjective.

To me none of this subjective/objective stuff is pointless bickering. If you're good at doing something because you have better motor skills or visualization skills, or invested more time than most at developing such skills, then that's all that matters. Whether it's truly objective means very little, except for those who are not as skilled or haven't put in the time to build those skills. They can only wish there was an objective path leading to where you are, then they could bypass the work you've had to put into it. Instead, they must work at it, using their own opinions, judgements, and experiences, until it feels objective to them.
Brian,

Rather well said, especially the last paragraph except for maybe the first sentence of it. Here you have made the point that it is a false 'selling' point for Mr. Shuffett's supposed "system". No one should be pulled into it by that false 'selling' point. If they are aware of such & still want to give it a go, then I think we all wish them well with it. No one that I know of is trying to stop anything... except that false 'selling' point.

Here is a thought. I have read some say that they have some trouble determining if a shot 'is' a 15 or a 30. Your Poololgy can help them with that.

Best,
RJ

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06-10-2019, 10:52 AM

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Originally Posted by Patrick Johnson View Post
Regas, how does pivoting make straight in shots easier for you? I'm seriously interested.

pj <- and when are you coming to play some more?
chgo
I can show you. It's hard to explain. It shouldn't work but man oh man does it work well. I'll be there Sunday for two weeks. I think my schedule will be more open this trip so I should be able to meet up with you.

It's actually not CTE but my interpretation of it because I don't really know CTE but I figured this out trying to figure out CTE. If that makes sense.

It's definitely a pivot system very similar to CTE.


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06-10-2019, 10:56 AM

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Originally Posted by sixpack View Post
The absolute best way to make straight in and almost straight in shots that I have ever come across is CTE.
How so?

Does a 1/2 tip offset & pivot back to center equate to the offset of the 15 visual? I do not think so. At least it did not for me years ago when Monty Orht tried to convince me of something.

If the pivot equates to the visual offset, then how are the shots between 0 & 15 made... Objectively?
  
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06-10-2019, 10:57 AM

Every once in a long while someone will come up to me and say something like, ďSo whatís all this CTE stuff about?Ē and Iíll explain the system to them.

I guess on the one hand that makes me a CTE instructor, lol. On the other hand I believe itís a flawed approach to shooting pool balls with some potential peripheral benefits. So when I hear about a player learning, knowing and teaching the system itís kind of a big nothing burger.

In addition, pros from Mosconi to Sigel, have believed in things about pool balls that are provably not true. Didnít stop them from running balls like water because what they thought was happening really wasnít.

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06-10-2019, 11:12 AM

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Originally Posted by sixpack View Post
I can show you. It's hard to explain. It shouldn't work but man oh man does it work well. I'll be there Sunday for two weeks. I think my schedule will be more open this trip so I should be able to meet up with you.

It's actually not CTE but my interpretation of it because I don't really know CTE but I figured this out trying to figure out CTE. If that makes sense.

It's definitely a pivot system very similar to CTE.
See. This happens all of the time. Now it is not really CTE like you first said.

Many who say they use CTE are NOT using Mr. Shuffett's "prime" CTE. Nearly everyone that I have had contact with here on AZB has basterized it to get something to work for them. I will not divulge his name but one in the industry who has praised CTE nearly from day one of the first DVD told me in PM that he does not use the Center CB to Edge of OB line. Yet he says in public that he uses Mr. Shuffett's CTE & that it works as stated. For a "system" that is "objective" that can not be. You can just throw away a component & have such a system still work nor say that you are still using "The Objective System".

That is basic false communication.

What do you think?

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06-10-2019, 11:14 AM

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Originally Posted by lfigueroa View Post
Every once in a long while someone will come up to me and say something like, ďSo whatís all this CTE stuff about?Ē and Iíll explain the system to them.

I guess on the one hand that makes me a CTE instructor, lol. On the other hand I believe itís a flawed approach to shooting pool balls with some potential peripheral benefits. So when I hear about a player learning, knowing and teaching the system itís kind of a big nothing burger.

In addition, pros from Mosconi to Sigel, have believed in things about pool balls that are provably not true. Didnít stop them from running balls like water because what they thought was happening really wasnít.

Lou Figueroa
ROTFLMAO! You couldn't explain any part of CTE that made sense because you know zilch about it. The pros I mentioned in an earlier post who DO teach it and use it on every shot would be more than happy to help relieve you of the couple of grand you won playing one pocket against JB.

How about you belly up to a table, if your belly doesn't get completely in the way, and we'll set up a match for the money and they'll have to call out all the visuals of CTE they're using before each shot and the steps how they're getting there.

Shouldn't take more than about 45 minutes to relieve you of your cherished cash.

Are you going to the DCC or any other tournament next year? I'll have a couple of them looking to specifically find and play you.

Better be wearing some Depends when they corner you and start trash talking to suck you in.
  
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BC21
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06-10-2019, 11:22 AM

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Originally Posted by SpiderWebComm View Post
But the question you should be asking is WHY did they completely abandon what they used over the years to learn something so visually different that allows them to have LESS misses and become MORE consistent? Didn't that ever occur to you?

None of them are STUPID! Nobody wants to get WORSE! The individuals above can't afford to screw up their earnings and careers. Hunter is extremely intelligent.
All of them are. Tyler made the Mosconi Cup after getting it internalized.

The biggest mouths on this forum have never won a tournament of any consequence in pro pool or amateur pool. Every naysayer troll against CTE would run like dogs with a scalded butt if ever challenged to play a money match with the names above.

Cookie takes a lot of crap on here but who has finished higher than he has in the US Amateur which was either 12th or 15th. Doesn't matter, either one is crazy good.
We're not talking about the small pool of guys, pros and amateurs, that play in a large known annual tournament. We're talking about the thousands and thousands of pool players all across the country who have the skills and cajones to belly up to play in the US Open and not look like fools. They aren't bar table hacks.

More will have greater success in the future also.

All you guys want to do is NITPICK and PARSE WORDS AND MEANINGS.as the only tournament you'll attempt to win on a forum that resembles pool.

Gets sickening...IS SICKENING!

What do ALL of them know that you (plural) DON'T?

I have no clue why a pro player would abandon the skill set that got them to pro level playing. I would guess that after you reach a certain level of play, it might be easier (due to an exorbitant amount/level of experience) to quickly grasp what Stan is teaching. Honestly though, I don't loose any sleep over it. Lol. It would be like if Joe Bonamassa changed his picking style because he liked Joe Satriani's style and believes it'll improve his own playing. These guys are so great that it absolutely does not correlate to average players, or even above average players.


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06-10-2019, 11:39 AM

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I have no clue why a pro player would abandon the skill set that got them to pro level playing. I would guess that after you reach a certain level of play, it might be easier (due to an exorbitant amount/level of experience) to quickly grasp what Stan is teaching.

How about the possibility of only one hour with Stan had them rifling balls into the center of the pocket with new visuals performing BETTER than what got them to pro level? ALL of them spent weeks/months with Stan to get the teaching certification after learning to play with it. Some a week at a time or more and then return trips in between tournaments.

Honestly though, I don't loose any sleep over it.

No, but you lose a lot of productive time in your life spending all the day and night hours posting in these threads about and against CTE over the last couple of years. You are in fact a CTE non-aiming posting addict on AZ.

It would be like if Joe Bonamassa changed his picking style because he liked Joe Satriani's style and believes it'll improve his own playing. These guys are so great that it absolutely does not correlate to average people.
So does it mean an average man (probably young man guitar player) couldn't learn to play excellent guitar if he had the two Joes teaching him some of their techniques as a personal instructor? Of course it would make a difference.

CTE can be learned by every pool player who has the time, desire, and focus when taught it the CORRECT way. But all can't be pros at the highest level.

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06-10-2019, 12:42 PM

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How about the possibility of only one hour with Stan had them rifling balls into the center of the pocket with new visuals performing BETTER than what got them to pro level? ALL of them spent weeks/months with Stan to get the teaching certification after learning to play with it. Some a week at a time or more and then return trips in between tournaments.

....you lose a lot of productive time in your life spending all the day and night hours posting in these threads about and against CTE over the last couple of years. You are in fact a CTE non-aiming posting addict on AZ.

So does it mean an average man (probably young man guitar player) couldn't learn to play excellent guitar if he had the two Joes teaching him some of their techniques as a personal instructor? Of course it would make a difference.

CTE can be learned by every pool player who has the time, desire, and focus when taught it the CORRECT way. But all can't be pros at the highest level.
One hour? Not surprising, I mean it's a "professional" system and all these players are professionals.

But honestly, when talking about players that very rarely miss a shot, how many balls do they have to shoot before really knowing that what they are doing now is better than what they've been doing for years? Lol

I don't waste much time on here anymore. A few posts here and there. And don't forget I'm one of those who actually had the pro1 DVDs and watched all of Stan's videos (multiple times), and read about every how-to post here on CTE, and personally spoke over the phone to a supposedly proficient cte user, and also have two friends who have had the private lesson. So you can say I'm "against" CTE all you want, but the truth is I simply gave it a shot, a good one, without investing a thousand hours though, and all I learned is that it didn't quite work so magnificently for me, not as instructed. I could make it work, but that's not what I expected.

I'm the type that gives honest appraisals of products and services so that others will have better understanding and realistic expectations should they try the same product or service. Prime example....I don't like Justice boots because they don't accommodate a wide foot, despite advertising an extra wide size. I returned the boots and posted my disappointment with the product on the website where I had purchased them. And believe it or not, not one single Justice boot wearer called me a hater, a basher, or an anti-Justice supporter. I did receive an email apologizing for the fact that their widest boot is only a couple of millimeters wider than normal. They were very polite about it, as was I in my review.

And of course private lessons can help the average improve, from music to pool to anything else.

As far as every player being able to learn CTE if taught the "correct" way....maybe so. But the correct way has proven not to be so easily found in 2 dvds and a hundred youtube clips. Apparently it requires a private lesson, which makes sense if there is just something that doesn't quite resonate unless you get it in person. Maybe the book will be better than all of the material presented thus far.


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06-10-2019, 01:30 PM

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One hour? Not surprising, I mean it's a "professional" system and all these players are professionals.

There you go with the wiseass rolleyes at the end of the sentence. Cookie isn't a pro and I'm not a pro. We both took a number of days in private lessons with Stan as did other non-pros. My first lessons with CTE were with Hal over the phone and then in person. But I guess I was drugged by both of them and didn't see the results on my own. I don't see you being a wiseass to PJ, Lou, or Dan. Why? Because you're lower on the totem pole for the clique.

But honestly, when talking about players that very rarely miss a shot, how many balls do they have to shoot before really knowing that what they are doing now is better than what they've been doing for years? Lol

I think more than anything they were intrigued with the results because of the uniqueness of the visuals and never having thought of aiming that way. It does get the attention. Sure did for me.

I don't waste much time on here anymore. A few posts here and there.

Total bullcrap. Look how many you've done just with me today. You have multiple posts in ALL of these threads when the knocking started. When CTE starts cranking up, you're all in.

You didn't post much after your wife passed away. Btw, I want to stop right here and say I'm very sorry that it happened. For both you and your kids. I'm serious.


And don't forget I'm one of those who actually had the pro1 DVDs and watched all of Stan's videos (multiple times), and read about every how-to post here on CTE, and personally spoke over the phone to a supposedly proficient cte user, and also have two friends who have had the private lesson. So you can say I'm "against" CTE all you want, but the truth is I simply gave it a shot, a good one, without investing a thousand hours though, and all I learned is that it didn't quite work so magnificently for me, not as instructed. I could make it work, but that's not what I expected.

Then that's all that's necessary. IT ISN'T FOR YOU. And that's OK.

I'm the type that gives honest appraisals of products and services so that others will have better understanding and realistic expectations should they try the same product or service. Prime example....I don't like Justice boots because they don't accommodate a wide foot, despite advertising an extra wide size. I returned the boots and posted my disappointment with the product on the website where I had purchased them. And believe it or not, not one single Justice boot wearer called me a hater, a basher, or an anti-Justice supporter. I did receive an email apologizing for the fact that their widest boot is only a couple of millimeters wider than normal. They were very polite about it, as was I in my review.

It's not the same thing at all. You have no vested interest in the production or ownership of BOOTS. You do have a vested interest in another aiming system for pool that you SELL for PROFIT. You also want to be associated with the Anti-CTE gang that's been doing it for over 20 years. Don't even attempt telling me otherwise. I've never seen you speak positively at length when it comes to any facet of CTE.

And of course private lessons can help the average improve, from music to pool to anything else.

Agreed 100%

As far as every player being able to learn CTE if taught the "correct" way....maybe so. But the correct way has proven not to be so easily found in 2 dvds and a hundred youtube clips. Apparently it requires a private lesson, which makes sense if there is just something that doesn't quite resonate unless you get it in person. Maybe the book will be better than all of the material presented thus far.
I'm sure it will be.

On another note, aren't you or weren't you thinking/trying to get certified to be an instructor under a certain pool organization? If that comes to fruition, don't you think you would be more effective teaching players in a live situation instead of the way it's being done now with ebooks, print books, and youtube videos?

I don't see PGA Tour pros trying to improve their swings and play by way of forums, books and tapes. Every one of them have a real live walking, talking, professional instructor with them right at the golf tournaments as well as in between tournaments.
  
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sixpack
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06-10-2019, 01:46 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ENGLISH! View Post
See. This happens all of the time. Now it is not really CTE like you first said.

Many who say they use CTE are NOT using Mr. Shuffett's "prime" CTE. Nearly everyone that I have had contact with here on AZB has basterized it to get something to work for them. I will not divulge his name but one in the industry who has praised CTE nearly from day one of the first DVD told me in PM that he does not use the Center CB to Edge of OB line. Yet he says in public that he uses Mr. Shuffett's CTE & that it works as stated. For a "system" that is "objective" that can not be. You can just throw away a component & have such a system still work nor say that you are still using "The Objective System".

That is basic false communication.

What do you think?
I think you are a parser of the finest order.

The reason I said what I said is that I don't have any official training in CTE and due to the way people online parse things I don't want to say something that isn't CTE and have people do exactly what you did here. Claim a fault with CTE when the fault rests entirely on the fact that I don't understand the whole system and easily could make an inaccurate statement about some point only to have people latch onto it and say "See! It's all hogwash!"

I certainly don't represent CTE or Stan in any way and I know Stan doesn't like people representing that they know CTE unless they REALLY do because he doesn't want that to happen either.

CTE (as I understand and use it) works great for straight in and almost straight in shots. In my experience it is by far the best way to pocket those shots consistently especially on a tight 9' table.

Trying to picture a ghost ball that is 1/16" or 3/32" off center requires a lot of judgement and in my opinion is inconsistent for all but the players with the best eyes and vision. And alignment. Your mileage may vary, obviously.

With the pivot method that I use (which I refer nominally to as CTE) you have two reference points/lines and the vision snaps into place and BAM! the shot goes in.

Look. I don't care if you don't like CTE. I don't care if it's technically objective or not. I offered my opinion. Take it or leave it. Find it useful or don't. Whatever you like.


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JoeyInCali
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06-10-2019, 01:52 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by cookie man View Post
Post it, along with detailed description as to how he is actually performing CTE. Who his instructor was or is would be helpful too. No need to ever use a ghost ball template, imo, so i'd like to hear how he's using it and why.
And there is nothing wrong in checking the contact point when using CTE. Checking the contact point is a way to correctly pick out the reference and sweep direction. But after checking out the contact point you then go back to strict CTE instructions to make the ball.
Go to youtube and search CTE for long shots.

Stan, himself posted here he does not look at the contact point and that it is not needed.
Quote:
"Is it possible to be in a standing, CTE ball address alignment with no awareness of that at all? Yes, Pros are in CTE visual territory quite a bit and are totally unaware of it.
So, what could a pro player actually see from a CTE subconscious alignment?....The most perfect Ghost Ball or Contact Point alignment that heíd ever want to view. Why perfect? The slight over cut to center pocket is in place and no adjustment of any kind is required. And to top it off, there is only CCB that can be seen that looks correct and locating it is exponentially faster than GB or CPs.
Sorry, I can't believe he's claiming that.
Let's cut the bs. The pros have shot most shots thousands and thousands of times successfully. Their right brain is already on cruise control on most shots. It's just like you driving home and don't even remember how you drove for miles and miles, yet you got there.
They see the angle, approach the angle and shoot it. Not to mention they are playing with 5 degrees of position nearly every time . They visualize the hit and shoot it .
You really think they are in CTE visual territory and not aware of it ?


  
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