Go Back   AzBilliards.com > Instruction & Ask the pros > Aiming Conversation
Reload this Page does the coach have to be a champion? i think not
Reply
Page 1 of 6 1 23 Last »
 
Share Thread Tools Rate Thread
does the coach have to be a champion? i think not
Old
  (#1)
bbb
AzB Silver Member
bbb has a reputation beyond reputebbb has a reputation beyond reputebbb has a reputation beyond reputebbb has a reputation beyond reputebbb has a reputation beyond reputebbb has a reputation beyond reputebbb has a reputation beyond reputebbb has a reputation beyond reputebbb has a reputation beyond reputebbb has a reputation beyond reputebbb has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 6,591
vCash: 1700
iTrader: 38 / 100%
Blog Entries: 1
Join Date: Mar 2008
   
does the coach have to be a champion? i think not - 12-08-2018, 06:54 PM

this is not only for lou and Low500
but they seem to think if you cant play you cant teach
so
its not pool but here are 2 world famous coaches who did not win major tournaments and we do not know how they handled pressure but they sure could teach...
for lou yes a champion might be able to give you some nuances that teachers like this cant but these type of teachers can offer ALOT.
robert landsdorf
http://www.tennis.com/pro-game/2017/...el-2017/69921/
Lansdorp, the coach who developed four former world No. 1s—Austin, Maria Sharapova, Pete Sampras and Lindsay Davenport—and innumerable solid pros.

nick bolliteri
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Bollettieri
Nicholas James Bollettieri (born July 31, 1931) is an American tennis coach. He has participated in the development of many leading players, including Andre Agassi, Jim Courier, Monica Seles, and Mary Pierce. He has also worked with Maria Sharapova, Daniela Hantuchová, Jelena Janković, Nicole Vaidišová, Sabine Lisicki, Sara Errani, Tommy Haas, Max Mirnyi, Xavier Malisse, Venus Williams, Serena Williams, Martina Hingis, Anna Kournikova, Marcelo Ríos, Kei Nishikori, and coached Boris Becker for two years.
  
Reply With Quote

Old
  (#2)
Prairie dog
AzB Silver Member
Prairie dog has a reputation beyond reputePrairie dog has a reputation beyond reputePrairie dog has a reputation beyond reputePrairie dog has a reputation beyond reputePrairie dog has a reputation beyond reputePrairie dog has a reputation beyond reputePrairie dog has a reputation beyond reputePrairie dog has a reputation beyond reputePrairie dog has a reputation beyond reputePrairie dog has a reputation beyond reputePrairie dog has a reputation beyond repute
 
Prairie dog's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 1,869
vCash: 500
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Salem, Oregon
   
12-08-2018, 07:15 PM

No doubt about it. Winning major tournaments has NOTHING to do with teaching except it adds to the price. Let's hear the golf tournaments won by Butch Harmon, Mike Bender, Chuck Cook, Jim McClean, David Leadbetter, Cameron McCormick, Michael Breed, Peter Kostis, Stan Utley, Rick Smith, Jim Hardy, Cris Como, Sean Foley, Dave Pelz Etc. etc. These guys charge over $500 per hour, some $2,000 per hour. Please name the tournaments they've won. I'm waiting.....


Member of NRA

Last edited by Prairie dog; 12-08-2018 at 07:38 PM.
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#3)
Low500
AzB Silver Member
Low500 has a reputation beyond reputeLow500 has a reputation beyond reputeLow500 has a reputation beyond reputeLow500 has a reputation beyond reputeLow500 has a reputation beyond reputeLow500 has a reputation beyond reputeLow500 has a reputation beyond reputeLow500 has a reputation beyond reputeLow500 has a reputation beyond reputeLow500 has a reputation beyond reputeLow500 has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 1,387
vCash: 500
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: Apr 2017
   
12-08-2018, 08:56 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by denwhit View Post
No doubt about it. Winning major tournaments has NOTHING to do with teaching except it adds to the price. Let's hear the golf tournaments won by Butch Harmon, Mike Bender, Chuck Cook, Jim McClean, David Leadbetter, Cameron McCormick, Michael Breed, Peter Kostis, Stan Utley, Rick Smith, Jim Hardy, Cris Como, Sean Foley, Dave Pelz Etc. etc. These guys charge over $500 per hour, some $2,000 per hour. Please name the tournaments they've won. I'm waiting.....
----------------


*All pool shooting successes or failures must be answered in terms of aiming and speed control. Nothing else. You gotta' eat, sleep, breathe it, and live it.*

Last edited by Low500; 04-30-2019 at 05:39 PM.
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#4)
Prairie dog
AzB Silver Member
Prairie dog has a reputation beyond reputePrairie dog has a reputation beyond reputePrairie dog has a reputation beyond reputePrairie dog has a reputation beyond reputePrairie dog has a reputation beyond reputePrairie dog has a reputation beyond reputePrairie dog has a reputation beyond reputePrairie dog has a reputation beyond reputePrairie dog has a reputation beyond reputePrairie dog has a reputation beyond reputePrairie dog has a reputation beyond repute
 
Prairie dog's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 1,869
vCash: 500
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Salem, Oregon
   
12-09-2018, 06:57 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Low500 View Post
The value of a product or service rests in the perception it creates in the mind of the prospective buyer. The last person I want teaching me to do anything is someone who doesn't have a proven resume in the field of endeavor being evaluated.
.
Then as a professional tour player, you would NOT pay any of the teachers I just listed. But, it's funny as they all live in fantastic houses and none of them are worried about money because they give lessons every day. Something is miscued with your reasoning. Let's face it: """"Their ability to teach has nothing to do with their wins on tour""""" (because they don't have any). If that is not obvious, I give up.


Member of NRA

Last edited by Prairie dog; 12-09-2018 at 07:00 AM.
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#5)
Low500
AzB Silver Member
Low500 has a reputation beyond reputeLow500 has a reputation beyond reputeLow500 has a reputation beyond reputeLow500 has a reputation beyond reputeLow500 has a reputation beyond reputeLow500 has a reputation beyond reputeLow500 has a reputation beyond reputeLow500 has a reputation beyond reputeLow500 has a reputation beyond reputeLow500 has a reputation beyond reputeLow500 has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 1,387
vCash: 500
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: Apr 2017
   
12-09-2018, 07:18 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by denwhit View Post
Then as a professional tour player, you would NOT pay any of the teachers I just listed. But, it's funny as they all live in fantastic houses and none of them are worried about money because they give lessons every day. Something is miscued with your reasoning. Let's face it: """"Their ability to teach has nothing to do with their wins on tour""""" (because they don't have any). If that is not obvious, I give up.
-----------


*All pool shooting successes or failures must be answered in terms of aiming and speed control. Nothing else. You gotta' eat, sleep, breathe it, and live it.*

Last edited by Low500; 04-30-2019 at 05:41 PM.
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#6)
Prairie dog
AzB Silver Member
Prairie dog has a reputation beyond reputePrairie dog has a reputation beyond reputePrairie dog has a reputation beyond reputePrairie dog has a reputation beyond reputePrairie dog has a reputation beyond reputePrairie dog has a reputation beyond reputePrairie dog has a reputation beyond reputePrairie dog has a reputation beyond reputePrairie dog has a reputation beyond reputePrairie dog has a reputation beyond reputePrairie dog has a reputation beyond repute
 
Prairie dog's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 1,869
vCash: 500
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Salem, Oregon
   
12-09-2018, 07:28 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Low500 View Post
I gotta' admit you're right about the money, where they live, and what they do...no doubt about it.
Somehow, though, I just cannot equate pool shooting (which in reality, no matter what the zealots say, is still just a game) with the genuine athletic sport of Golf.
I study pool shooting with an instructor who is a genuine golf pro and he says the same thing...no comparison in the two for difficulty.
When I was a young man and wanted to race motorcycles...I would've paid dearly to take instructions from Brad Andres or Hap Alzina. But alas, I was a broke hillbilly and had to settle for a local yokel.
If I wanted to play guitar, I think Chet Atkins would've been a pretty good teacher and not Farmer Brown, the lead guitarist from the "Seldom Fed Five", at the local honky tonk.
I just don't see how someone who hasn't been out there under fire can KNOW what to really teach someone about a game like pool or other activities.
Life goes on...you have your convictions and I have mine. That doesn't necessarily make us enemies, you know
Stay happy.
I agree. But Chet doesn't give lessons from someone that is not famous themselves. He is too rich! Robin is like Chet but he is not rich and has many quivers in his arsenal before he started teaching. As a hustler, he could not lose and this comes through in his teaching. I only take 9-10 ball lessons and a few 8 ball lessons 2 years ago. I know his specialty is 14.1 and 8 ball. Amazing to watch him with 8 ball. The patterns are so obvious once he lays them out.


Member of NRA

Last edited by Prairie dog; 12-10-2018 at 03:52 PM.
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#7)
lfigueroa
AzB Silver Member
lfigueroa has a reputation beyond reputelfigueroa has a reputation beyond reputelfigueroa has a reputation beyond reputelfigueroa has a reputation beyond reputelfigueroa has a reputation beyond reputelfigueroa has a reputation beyond reputelfigueroa has a reputation beyond reputelfigueroa has a reputation beyond reputelfigueroa has a reputation beyond reputelfigueroa has a reputation beyond reputelfigueroa has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 12,900
vCash: 500
iTrader: 6 / 100%
Join Date: Oct 2005
   
12-09-2018, 07:57 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbb View Post
this is not only for lou and Low500
but they seem to think if you cant play you cant teach
so
its not pool but here are 2 world famous coaches who did not win major tournaments and we do not know how they handled pressure but they sure could teach...
for lou yes a champion might be able to give you some nuances that teachers like this cant but these type of teachers can offer ALOT.
robert landsdorf
http://www.tennis.com/pro-game/2017/...el-2017/69921/
Lansdorp, the coach who developed four former world No. 1s—Austin, Maria Sharapova, Pete Sampras and Lindsay Davenport—and innumerable solid pros.

nick bolliteri
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Bollettieri
Nicholas James Bollettieri (born July 31, 1931) is an American tennis coach. He has participated in the development of many leading players, including Andre Agassi, Jim Courier, Monica Seles, and Mary Pierce. He has also worked with Maria Sharapova, Daniela Hantuchová, Jelena Janković, Nicole Vaidišová, Sabine Lisicki, Sara Errani, Tommy Haas, Max Mirnyi, Xavier Malisse, Venus Williams, Serena Williams, Martina Hingis, Anna Kournikova, Marcelo Ríos, Kei Nishikori, and coached Boris Becker for two years.

Show me where I said if you can't play you can't teach.

Then tell me who in pool has similar level resumes as Landsdorf and Bollettieri?

Lou Figueroa
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#8)
lfigueroa
AzB Silver Member
lfigueroa has a reputation beyond reputelfigueroa has a reputation beyond reputelfigueroa has a reputation beyond reputelfigueroa has a reputation beyond reputelfigueroa has a reputation beyond reputelfigueroa has a reputation beyond reputelfigueroa has a reputation beyond reputelfigueroa has a reputation beyond reputelfigueroa has a reputation beyond reputelfigueroa has a reputation beyond reputelfigueroa has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 12,900
vCash: 500
iTrader: 6 / 100%
Join Date: Oct 2005
   
12-09-2018, 08:17 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by denwhit View Post
No doubt about it. Winning major tournaments has NOTHING to do with teaching except it adds to the price. Let's hear the golf tournaments won by Butch Harmon, Mike Bender, Chuck Cook, Jim McClean, David Leadbetter, Cameron McCormick, Michael Breed, Peter Kostis, Stan Utley, Rick Smith, Jim Hardy, Cris Como, Sean Foley, Dave Pelz Etc. etc. These guys charge over $500 per hour, some $2,000 per hour. Please name the tournaments they've won. I'm waiting.....

Weren't most of those guys playing college golf, winning some amateur events, and then going on to become touring PGA Pros at one time, with some tour wins or decent finishes?

Lou Figueroa
waiting

Last edited by lfigueroa; 12-09-2018 at 08:19 AM.
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#9)
Prairie dog
AzB Silver Member
Prairie dog has a reputation beyond reputePrairie dog has a reputation beyond reputePrairie dog has a reputation beyond reputePrairie dog has a reputation beyond reputePrairie dog has a reputation beyond reputePrairie dog has a reputation beyond reputePrairie dog has a reputation beyond reputePrairie dog has a reputation beyond reputePrairie dog has a reputation beyond reputePrairie dog has a reputation beyond reputePrairie dog has a reputation beyond repute
 
Prairie dog's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 1,869
vCash: 500
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Salem, Oregon
   
Smile 12-09-2018, 08:29 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by lfigueroa View Post
Weren't most of those guys playing college golf, winning some amateur events, and then going on to become touring PGA Pros at one time, with some tour wins or decent finishes?

Lou Figueroa
waiting
Most were good players in college, but not at the pro level and then some kid in their neighborhood or nearby, came to them as a coach and the kid, as he grew up became great on tour. Most became famous because tour players let them be their coach and that adds up.


Member of NRA

Last edited by Prairie dog; 12-10-2018 at 03:53 PM.
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#10)
lfigueroa
AzB Silver Member
lfigueroa has a reputation beyond reputelfigueroa has a reputation beyond reputelfigueroa has a reputation beyond reputelfigueroa has a reputation beyond reputelfigueroa has a reputation beyond reputelfigueroa has a reputation beyond reputelfigueroa has a reputation beyond reputelfigueroa has a reputation beyond reputelfigueroa has a reputation beyond reputelfigueroa has a reputation beyond reputelfigueroa has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 12,900
vCash: 500
iTrader: 6 / 100%
Join Date: Oct 2005
   
12-09-2018, 08:38 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by denwhit View Post
Most were good players in college, but not at the pro level and then some kid in their neighborhood or nearby, came to them as a coach and the kid, as he grew up became great on tour. Most became famous because tour players let them be their coach and that adds up. My son was a PGA pro for a while. He hated it because it took away from his game. BUT, if he had some kid that made it big on tour, he'd be famous if he stayed in it that long. Thank Goodness he let that be and is now a CEO of a major company. Can still shoot scratch today. Much Different from pool. If RD only had one of those! But, for me, it's good he hasn't because I can afford him now. Sad. He would be an awesome coach for the Mosconi team. WORK they would have to do.

Not so.

I'm not into golfing but I know several of the guys mentioned qualified for and played the PGA tour with at least one of them winning a PGA event. Another played in the Masters as an amateur after, I think, winning the US Amateur.

Lou Figueroa
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#11)
Prairie dog
AzB Silver Member
Prairie dog has a reputation beyond reputePrairie dog has a reputation beyond reputePrairie dog has a reputation beyond reputePrairie dog has a reputation beyond reputePrairie dog has a reputation beyond reputePrairie dog has a reputation beyond reputePrairie dog has a reputation beyond reputePrairie dog has a reputation beyond reputePrairie dog has a reputation beyond reputePrairie dog has a reputation beyond reputePrairie dog has a reputation beyond repute
 
Prairie dog's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 1,869
vCash: 500
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Salem, Oregon
   
12-09-2018, 08:41 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by lfigueroa View Post
Not so.

I'm not into golfing but I know several of the guys mentioned qualified for and played the PGA tour with at least one of them winning a PGA event. Another played in the Masters as an amateur after, I think, winning the US Amateur.

Lou Figueroa
A few did but most did not. Hank Haney, Butch Harmon, Sean Foley, etc. Here is Cameron McCormick, only a teacher BUT the kid he taught was Jordan Speth! Now he is the most demanded teaching pro. CAMERON MCCORMICK-FOUNDER. Cameron McCormick began coaching golf in his home country of Australia in 1998. Moving to the United States in 2000, he brought with him the coaching principles honed under the tutelage of the Victorian Institute of Sport coaches. great example probably never played tournament golf


Member of NRA

Last edited by Prairie dog; 12-09-2018 at 08:59 AM.
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#12)
lfigueroa
AzB Silver Member
lfigueroa has a reputation beyond reputelfigueroa has a reputation beyond reputelfigueroa has a reputation beyond reputelfigueroa has a reputation beyond reputelfigueroa has a reputation beyond reputelfigueroa has a reputation beyond reputelfigueroa has a reputation beyond reputelfigueroa has a reputation beyond reputelfigueroa has a reputation beyond reputelfigueroa has a reputation beyond reputelfigueroa has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 12,900
vCash: 500
iTrader: 6 / 100%
Join Date: Oct 2005
   
12-09-2018, 09:33 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by denwhit View Post
A few did but most did not. Hank Haney, Butch Harmon, Sean Foley, etc. Here is Cameron McCormick, only a teacher BUT the kid he taught was Jordan Speth! Now he is the most demanded teaching pro. CAMERON MCCORMICK-FOUNDER. Cameron McCormick began coaching golf in his home country of Australia in 1998. Moving to the United States in 2000, he brought with him the coaching principles honed under the tutelage of the Victorian Institute of Sport coaches. great example probably never played tournament golf

Hardy was a PGA pro player.
Utley was a PGA pro player with a win.
Costas was a PGA pro player.
Breed was a PGA pro player.
McCormick was a pro golfer.
Leadbetter was a pro player.
McClean was a PGA pro with a win.
Bender was a PGA pro.
Harmon was a PGA pro with a win.

Lou Figueroa
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#13)
Prairie dog
AzB Silver Member
Prairie dog has a reputation beyond reputePrairie dog has a reputation beyond reputePrairie dog has a reputation beyond reputePrairie dog has a reputation beyond reputePrairie dog has a reputation beyond reputePrairie dog has a reputation beyond reputePrairie dog has a reputation beyond reputePrairie dog has a reputation beyond reputePrairie dog has a reputation beyond reputePrairie dog has a reputation beyond reputePrairie dog has a reputation beyond repute
 
Prairie dog's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 1,869
vCash: 500
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Salem, Oregon
   
12-09-2018, 09:43 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by lfigueroa View Post
Hardy was a PGA pro player.
Utley was a PGA pro player with a win.
Costas was a PGA pro player.
Breed was a PGA pro player.
McCormick was a pro golfer.
Leadbetter was a pro player.
McClean was a PGA pro with a win.
Bender was a PGA pro.
Harmon was a PGA pro with a win.

Lou Figueroa
Being a PGA pro? There are millions of PGA pros. You can't charge for lessons unless you are a PGA pro. Can't be an assistant pro in the pro shop without being a PGA pro. Crazy.


Member of NRA
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#14)
lfigueroa
AzB Silver Member
lfigueroa has a reputation beyond reputelfigueroa has a reputation beyond reputelfigueroa has a reputation beyond reputelfigueroa has a reputation beyond reputelfigueroa has a reputation beyond reputelfigueroa has a reputation beyond reputelfigueroa has a reputation beyond reputelfigueroa has a reputation beyond reputelfigueroa has a reputation beyond reputelfigueroa has a reputation beyond reputelfigueroa has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 12,900
vCash: 500
iTrader: 6 / 100%
Join Date: Oct 2005
   
12-09-2018, 11:23 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by denwhit View Post
Being a PGA pro? There are millions of PGA pros. You can't charge for lessons unless you are a PGA pro. Can't be an assistant pro in the pro shop without being a PGA pro. Crazy.

It is far from being that simple.

The PGA Q-School is a grueling process that separates the wheat from the chaff and only lets the finest golfers in the world get their tour card. You made it sound as if the guys you named had never won anything. Winning your PGA card is something by any standard.

Lou Figueroa
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#15)
Prairie dog
AzB Silver Member
Prairie dog has a reputation beyond reputePrairie dog has a reputation beyond reputePrairie dog has a reputation beyond reputePrairie dog has a reputation beyond reputePrairie dog has a reputation beyond reputePrairie dog has a reputation beyond reputePrairie dog has a reputation beyond reputePrairie dog has a reputation beyond reputePrairie dog has a reputation beyond reputePrairie dog has a reputation beyond reputePrairie dog has a reputation beyond repute
 
Prairie dog's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 1,869
vCash: 500
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Salem, Oregon
   
12-09-2018, 12:23 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by lfigueroa View Post
It is far from being that simple.

The PGA Q-School is a grueling process that separates the wheat from the chaff and only lets the finest golfers in the world get their tour card. You made it sound as if the guys you named had never won anything. Winning your PGA card is something by any standard.

Lou Figueroa
No, you are talking about a PGA tour pro. A regular PGA pro (not a tour pro) is at every golf course in America. Most of the assistants are either PGA professionals or working on becoming one. Doesn't take too much. A PGA touring professional is a different deal. Most of the finest teachers were not PGA touring pros or for such a short while and then they decided they were rabbits and had better find something else to do. They are PGA professionals as are all teaching golf pros at every club in the USA. These teachers I'm mentioning are PGA professionals and NOT touring professionals. Otherwise they'd be out there trying to make money on the tour as Tiger Woods. None of them can do that. Some might have won some kind of tournament in their youth but they quickly decided they are not going to make a living that way.


Member of NRA

Last edited by Prairie dog; 12-09-2018 at 12:52 PM.
  
Reply With Quote
Reply
Page 1 of 6 1 23 Last »

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.