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GBCues
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05-14-2019, 06:49 AM

As others have requested, we need to see pictures of your setup in order to help diagnose your problem. Please post pictures of your lathe with a dowel mounted in it. Then a close-up of the headsrock, cross-slide with cutter, and the realistic. Finally, rig up a mount to hold a dial indicator at the same height as your cutter. Then you can watch the indicator needle as you move the cross-slide down the ways. This will help you see what the cutter is doing while it turns your dowel.
As Joey noted, the fact that it cut better when using the taper bar indicates where the problem is. The above procedure will help define the problem better.
My 2 cents
Gary


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cueman
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05-14-2019, 08:32 AM

It sounds like the bed may need the middle foot pad screws adjusted if you are using a router. If you have taper bars the bed being off should not come into play and shafts should cut fine.
  
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jokers_wild96
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05-14-2019, 02:15 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by cueman View Post
It sounds like the bed may need the middle foot pad screws adjusted if you are using a router. If you have taper bars the bed being off should not come into play and shafts should cut fine.
Yeah, once I engaged the taper bars it cut fine. Once my new lathe is set up this one will only do tapering, points/inlays and finishing.
  
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Lizardking
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05-28-2019, 04:24 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by whammo57 View Post
Usually the dowel will be fat in the middle because of tool push off..... small in the middle seems to be mechanical. Lay a straight edge on the lathe bed .... it may be low in the middle..... try the straight edge on the sides of the lathe bed.... it may not be straight.............

Kim
This got me thinking about my setup. After scrutinizing my bed I decided it was not where it should be. I spent a whole day getting it as good as I could, and what a difference it made. Thank all of you for sharing your knowledge!!

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scdiveteam
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06-23-2019, 09:59 AM

Hi,

Try 6 min travel time for 30 inch distance. This is critical parameter is you want a shaft that barely requires sanding after turning. If you travel too fast the rms finish will be bad. You will also shock the wood.

Lathe speed between 120 and 150 rpm. Find the sweet spot for your equipment. If your lowest lathe speed cant get that slow, modify the lead screw to run direct drive with a DC Motor and controller. If your travel speed is too fast your not going to get a good result.

Use a 6 wing cutter on a lathe mounted Router. Not a 2 fluke.

Make sure your router is mounted rock solid to your tool post set up mechanically. No hose clamps or bullshit rigging.

Set elevation of cutter above or below center line of dowel so just the edge of cutter is engaged in the kerf cut.

Never take less than a .010 pass . At a minimum of .010 kerf embedment, the shaft won't oscillate in the center with the minimum tailstock pressure. When you think you have the lightest pressure, lick the center hole and back off a little more. Again find that sweet spot. Of course you should have a live center with a bearing on the tailstock side.

If you are not using a metal lathe with mass, make sure any lightweight set up is securely mounted to your bench.

If you get all the above parameters in the range described above and the results a still bad then your lathe needs to be replaced with one that will be repeatable with precision results to do this job.

JMO,

Rick



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Last edited by scdiveteam; 06-24-2019 at 09:18 AM.
  
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JoeyInCali
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06-23-2019, 11:18 AM

I use a 3 flute slot cutter.
Last pass at. 005".
UGRA CNC spindle and vfd.
3 minute pass 6 would drive me nuts.
That's a lot of air massaging.

Those whiteside 6 flute. 250" kerf slotter have too much pushoff for my liking.


  
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whammo57
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06-23-2019, 11:18 AM

a few things I have found to smooth cutting shafts on a Hightower Deluxe.............. I add 3 rubber bands to help the spring keep the roller on the taper bar....... I believe it was bouncing and causing a barber pole cut.... I also use a big C clamp to clamp a big rubber block to the router mount........ the added weight and rubber dampen any harmonic oscillations it might have........... I now get a surface that hardly requires sanding

Kim


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Dave38
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06-24-2019, 12:01 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by scdiveteam View Post
Hi,

, lick the center hole and back off a little more. Again find that sweet spot.

Rick
Sorry, this is too funny to let go....lick the center spot...LMAO
Dave
  
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scdiveteam
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06-24-2019, 09:40 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeyInCali View Post
I use a 3 flute slot cutter.
Last pass at. 005".
UGRA CNC spindle and vfd.
3 minute pass 6 would drive me nuts.
That's a lot of air massaging.

Those whiteside 6 flute. 250" kerf slotter have too much pushoff for my liking.
Joe,

If you set up an auto stop switch you can turn the machine on and walk away. I did both my saw machines for about 50 dollars total.

The 6 min pass will surprise you concerning RMS finish compared to 3 min. If your lathe wont go that slow, modify it with a DC motor and controller. Slower the better, you will be amazed. 6 mins seems to be the speed. Any slower does not seem to produce a better result. Diminishing return.

I use 80 tooth carbide saw blades at 139 rpm and 6 min duration and the shafts have a shiny burnish like feel and appearance.

I seal them with water thin epoxy and sand for less than 1 minute a few days later. Water thin epoxy penetrates over .010. Seals and case hardens the shaft forever.

JMO,

Rick



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  (#25)
JoeyInCali
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06-24-2019, 10:01 AM

No reason for 6 minute pass here.
My taperer is powered by an X-axis mill auto feed.
Auto stop at ends.
CNN spindle spins a lot faster than saws.


  
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  (#26)
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06-26-2019, 02:36 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeyInCali View Post

I use a 3 flute slot cutter.
No reason for 6 minute pass here.
My taperer is powered by an X-axis mill auto feed.
Auto stop at ends.
CNN spindle spins a lot faster than sawsoe,

Joe,

IMO, the travel speed has much more effect on the RMS finish than just the RPM of the spindle or the saw blade rpm.

The balanced saw blade with vibration dampener and proper drive belt is also a big factor. The blade also has at least 50 x more mass and therefore more stability than my 6 wing cutter with a 1/4" shaft on my CNC spindle.

Saw blade RPM is 3450

3450 x 80 cutters = 276,000 cuts per minute or 5 inches travel

276,000 x 6 mins = 1,656,000 total cuts on 30 inch shaft

When I cut custom billiard tapers on my CNC using my NSK spindle with a 6 wing cutter:

25000 RPM x 6 = 150,000 cuts per minute

150,000 x 6 minute duration = 900,000 cuts with a 6 wing.

A 3 wing cutter would be 450,000 total cuts using a 6 minute travel duration.

Using a 50,000 RPM spindle would get you back to 450,000 cuts in a 3 minute total travel / duration.

Again the travel speed and total duration is the Key to the best RMS finish along with the properly tuned Lathe or rotation RPM. IMO

To the OP, your question has many detailed premutations to consider to dial in your end result when creating a shaft. Every detail requires the utmost attention when dialing in your rig's set up or tuning.
[
I have noticed there is a huge difference in the RMS finish and more sanding required using my CNC compared to my shaft saw machine at the numbers shown above. Again, any longer than a 6 minute duration does not seem to yield a better result. On my equipment 6 minutes seems to be the Goldielocks situation. "Just Right "

JMO,

Rick



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Last edited by scdiveteam; 06-26-2019 at 10:00 AM.
  
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GBCues
Damn, still .002 TIR!
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06-26-2019, 11:46 AM

IMHO every machine is different and every machine has a different sweet spot - or set of them - which must be explored by the operator.
I used to use 6-wing cutters, but felt like they hammered the shaft and induced oscillations/barber-poling too easily. I believe Joey has found a place to send his out to get sharpened and trued, which I was never able to find locally.
I've tried 3-wing and 2-wing cutters, upcut and downcut endmills, etc.
But as stated above, you have to vary the spindle speed, shaft rpm's, and feed rate for each machine - and each cutter type for that matter - to find what works best for your setup.
My 2 cents,
Gary


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JoeyInCali
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06-26-2019, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Joe,

IMO, the travel speed has much more effect on the RMS finish than just the RPM of the spindle or the saw blade rpm.

The balanced saw blade with vibration dampener and proper drive belt is also a big factor. The blade also has at least 50 x more mass and therefore more stability than my 6 wing cutter with a 1/4" shaft on my CNC spindle.

Saw blade RPM is 3450

3450 x 80 cutters = 276,000 cuts per minute or 5 inches travel

276,000 x 6 mins = 1,656,000 total cuts on 30 inch shaft

When I cut custom billiard tapers on my CNC using my NSK spindle with a 6 wing cutter:

25000 RPM x 6 = 150,000 cuts per minute

150,000 x 6 minute duration = 900,000 cuts with a 6 wing.

A 3 wing cutter would be 450,000 total cuts using a 6 minute travel duration.

Using a 50,000 RPM spindle would get you back to 450,000 cuts in a 3 minute total travel / duration.

Again the travel speed and total duration is the Key to the best RMS finish along with the properly tuned Lathe or rotation RPM. IMO

To the OP, your question has many detailed premutations to consider to dial in your end result when creating a shaft. Every detail requires the utmost attention when dialing in your rig's set up or tuning.
[
I have noticed there is a huge difference in the RMS finish and more sanding required using my CNC compared to my shaft saw machine at the numbers shown above. Again, any longer than a 6 minute duration does not seem to yield a better result. On my equipment 6 minutes seems to be the Goldielocks situation. "Just Right "

JMO,

Rick
You used to claim you took some 15 minutes or so on the final cut.
You and that best regards guy in Florida.

I really couldn't care less about cuts per minute .
If the cutter is no longer cutting wood, it needs to get out .

If your best cut is at 6 minutes, I think your spinner is spinning too slow.
Most like 200 RPM.

6 minutes would mean you take 2 minutes per 10 inches.
That would drive me nuts.
Total waste of electricity and more wear on the bearing and dust collector motor.


  
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WilleeCue
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07-03-2019, 08:45 PM

Vibration will make the shaft smaller ... the center is the most vibration prone area.
Shaft cutting requires a finely tuned machine and without being there and watching the thing run it would be hard to recommend a fix.
  
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whammo57
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07-04-2019, 07:05 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by GBCues View Post
IMHO every machine is different and every machine has a different sweet spot - or set of them - which must be explored by the operator.
I used to use 6-wing cutters, but felt like they hammered the shaft and induced oscillations/barber-poling too easily. I believe Joey has found a place to send his out to get sharpened and trued, which I was never able to find locally.
I've tried 3-wing and 2-wing cutters, upcut and downcut endmills, etc.
But as stated above, you have to vary the spindle speed, shaft rpm's, and feed rate for each machine - and each cutter type for that matter - to find what works best for your setup.
My 2 cents,
Gary
I agree.....Every machine is different and you must see what works for you............. and for some reason sometimes you must adjust for the day............

Kim


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Southern Cue Systems

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