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Timberly
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01-21-2007, 06:47 PM

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Originally Posted by manwon
I suppose we can agree to disagree
Actually we're not disagreeing... I simply have a communication problem this evening and am not getting what I mean across. I guess it's all the meds I've been on this week. The best thing for me to do is turn off the computer, take my meds, blow my nose, & go to bed.


Timberly <--- so very done with this thread.
  
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jay helfert
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01-21-2007, 06:50 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timberly
Actually we're not disagreeing... I simply have a communication problem this evening and am not getting what I mean across. I guess it's all the meds I've been on this week. The best thing for me to do is turn off the computer, take my meds, blow my nose, & go to bed.


Timberly <--- so very done with this thread.
Don't worry about it Timberly. You are the dead nuts!

Oops, another communication problem.
  
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01-21-2007, 07:01 PM

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Originally Posted by manwon

In closing the public wants something exciting, this will draw more positive attention to pool long term than the kinder aristocratic approach. Everytime pool has had a resurgence it has been due to the seedy side of billiards. Take the Movie The Hustler, and of course The Color of Money both of these movies created an environment for record sales of billiard equipment and they also kick started the entire industry and both were seedy. Again, Lets not forget about Fat's, he was the greatest front man pool ever had, but I suspect there are others who could take his place with the proper promotion and with a truly Honest and dedicated promoter, oh and by the way that promoter will also have to be a Loud Mouthed Seedy individual, because that is what people will listen to, they may shake their heads, however they will also have a little smile on their face and they will not be able to wait for the next time they can see an event..
Great points, Craig. What cracked me up was all the effort during the past generation or so to make professional pool squeaky clean-- then along comes poker, which leap-frogged over pool to grab T.V. time! Talk about obnoxious players! There are 10 times more jerks in pro poker than there ever were in pool. And the audience laps it up. Some of these guys get a river card they like, and they jump up to holler and brag as if they just hit the lottery. IMO poker needs less shenanigans, and pool needs more!

Doc
  
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01-21-2007, 09:06 PM

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Originally Posted by gulfportdoc
Great points, Craig. What cracked me up was all the effort during the past generation or so to make professional pool squeaky clean-- then along comes poker, which leap-frogged over pool to grab T.V. time! Talk about obnoxious players! There are 10 times more jerks in pro poker than there ever were in pool. And the audience laps it up. Some of these guys get a river card they like, and they jump up to holler and brag as if they just hit the lottery. IMO poker needs less shenanigans, and pool needs more!

Doc
Doc I also completely agree with you, you have also made a very good point that I over looked. Now if we could only find a front man, and a Promoter who are Colorful enough to take pool to the place that it deserves to be.

Oh and by the way, they would have to be people who wear pant's with no pockets, that way they can not fill them up at the players expense


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01-22-2007, 01:39 AM

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Originally Posted by Timberly
Jennie, I give up. Nothing about my post was about the UPA except that Charlie required a dress code.
Timberly, there were dress codes in effect before Charlie Williams founded the UPA.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timberly
Subsequently, after the UPA, it seemed the players changed focus & looked more towards sponsorship instead of playing on the road.(the parts in bold was included in the same paragraph but it was in no way about the UPA)
It may be that this is the state of affairs, the way it seemed to you or maybe friends of yours.

For some pool players, to include UPA members, the climate was not a good one. Some players were prevented from earning a living, and all players were NOT -- I repeat NOT -- treated equal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timberly
Yes, players wore tux's but that was before my time. When I came onto the pool scene almost 20 yrs ago, everyone wore sweat suits. I only ever saw Tony Ellin (RIP) in a collard shirt twice that I can think of and both times he was wearing jogging pants.
Maybe it is a regional thing, Timberly, where you were living. I too have seen players wearing shorts, T-shirts, and the like, mostly at regional tournaments. However, at most high-profile professional events, a dress code did exist.

Again, I respect and understand your opinion, Timberly.

Please try to respect and understand mine.

I hope your cold/flu gets better. I just got over it, and it took about 2 weeks to get completely out of my system. After about 5 boxes of Kleenex, throat drops, OTC cold medicine, I bought me a whole chicken and boiled it until the meat fell off the bones. It was the chicken broth which helped me the most through the bad times.

JAM
  
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01-22-2007, 01:47 AM

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Originally Posted by jay helfert
By the way Jam, there ain't any more legendary than the guy next to Pretty Boy. If you mention the name Keith to pool players anywhere, they know exactly who you're talking about. "Ether" will suffice as well. Or even "Earthquake" may get the same response.

For my money, Pro Pool could use a few more like him and Louie. Alex is about the closest I've seen for his bubbly personality.
Well, great minds think alike, Jay, and I most definitely agree with you!

People say the politics in Washington, D.C., stinks, but I gotta say that the politics in pool don't smell much better.

What is incredible to me is how, on the one hand, some opinions lean towards doing away with the gambler, hustler, road player, as they feel it is bad for the sport.

Yet, in Louisville, a few short weeks ago, there was a Louie Roberts Action/Entertainment Award which went to the player who provided the very character traits that some seem to have a strong disdain for.

The Derby City Classic is a celebration of pool and apparently, by the thousands of posts on this forum, it is truly what most seem to enjoy -- the atmosphere, the players, the tournaments, and the action, and interestingly enough, the road players, hustlers, and gamblers seem to fit right in the spirit of what makes the Derby City Classic so special.

JAM
  
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01-22-2007, 02:32 AM

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Originally Posted by gulfportdoc
Great points, Craig. What cracked me up was all the effort during the past generation or so to make professional pool squeaky clean-- then along comes poker, which leap-frogged over pool to grab T.V. time! Talk about obnoxious players! There are 10 times more jerks in pro poker than there ever were in pool. And the audience laps it up. Some of these guys get a river card they like, and they jump up to holler and brag as if they just hit the lottery. IMO poker needs less shenanigans, and pool needs more!
Your post gave me a chuckle!

At the IPT tournament in Vegas last year, a representative of a poker entity came to the ballroom at the Venetian, a pretty high-class venue, IMHO.

His name was "Mike the Mouth." He apparently has a well-known poker personality which I guess is how he got his moniker.

Mike the Mouth seemed like a nice enough guy, posed for a kazillion pictures for the media and fans alike, but you can see how he was dressed in the picture below representing the poker entity.

I don't think spectators are looking at what the competitors are wearing when they watch poker and/or pool. Rather, they are more interested in their level of play. Robotic and emotionless pool players, no matter how much you dress them up, does not make pool attractive for prospective sponsors and popularity for the sport.

Poker is full of emotion when you see the players sitting at the table. They are not robotic and emotionless. Pool on TV, on the other hand, can be quite boring for me personally, and I happen to like pool.

JAM
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01-22-2007, 03:52 AM

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Originally Posted by vagabond
I always believed and I still believe that the PURITONIC values America has embraced have negative influence on pool.I strongly believe that this is the main reason for not getting sponsorship from Non pool industries and corporations.I strongly believe that no body is going to admitt that their opinions on pool are influenced by puritonic values.I strongly believe that many Americans do not realize how much they are being influenced by Puritonic values in day to day living.
I think you hit the nail on the head, Vagabond.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vagabond
Jimmy Mataya has always been my most favorite player. I rather watch a match between Jimmy M v Keith McCready than Efren V Ralph Souquet.
Funny you should mention that!

Were you at the '03 Open? Keith McCready was playing a colorful player, but it wasn't Jimmy Mataya. It was Alex Pagulayan.

Efren Reyes was there, but he wasn't playing Ralf Souquet. It was Francisco Bustamante, two of the most famed players in the world were battling it out on the TV table.

Alex and Keith were playing their winners' bracket match on a side table. I was sweating bullets sitting on the rail, knowing how strong Alex plays. The two of them began to chatter between shots, and it seemed to attract the attention of spectators. Mid match during the race to 11, the colloquy continued, and though I was cringing with each word that came out of Keith's mouth, it seemed like everybody else in the joint was hanging onto every word out of Keith's and Alex's mouths respectively.

My most vivid memory of the match, sitting next to a chuckling Buddy Hall, was seeing Marcus Chamat across the arena, way high up in the alps. He was laughing so hard, he fell out of his seat. Even Efren and Bustie were watching The Alex and Keith Show. The TV crew decided to postpone recording the TV table match because the crowd began to roar inside the conference center, and all eyes were on Alex and Keith. Everybody was laughing and having a good time, except me.

Alex was so funny, which is why he is loved around the world. Everybody enjoys seeing Alex play, not only because of his skills set on the table, but he's a real person, one who isn't afraid to show a little emotion. Keith, who adores the fans, really got caught up in the excitement. When he feels the audience's energy, he goes into turbo charge. He actually plays better when he is himself. My heart beat fast, as I watched Keith dance around the table with his happy feet, chirping like a canary. It was anybody's game, and it went down to the wire. Keith was VERY LUCKY to have won this match, IMHO!

Pool has a conservative side, the "PURITONIC values" as you say, but it also has a liberal side, which for some may be the entertainment aspect of it. I don't know what the right mix is, but in order for pool to be a spectator sport, it needs to attract more interested parties which hopefully could include sponsors.

Picture of Alex and Keith at the 2003 U.S. Open. The next year, Alex "The Lion" Pagulayan roared loudly when he won the 2004 World Pool Championship!

JAM
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01-22-2007, 07:19 AM

Pool will never be a big money sport in this country. To be big money requires corporate involvement and pool will never have a clean enough reputation for corporations to endorse it.


"The average man seeks certainty in the eye of the onlooker and calls that self-confidence.
The warrior seeks impeccability in his own eye and calls that humbleness."
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01-22-2007, 08:25 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimS
Pool will never be a big money sport in this country. To be big money requires corporate involvement and pool will never have a clean enough reputation for corporations to endorse it.
True, pool will never get the big money, but that is because the average American TV viewer does not want to watch it.

The average couch potato is uneducated regarding the artistry, physics, and skill required to run a rack or execute a great safety.

It has little to do with pool's reputation, in fact, I think the reputation would draw many people to the TV.... but they won't stay because they just see two people banging balls around.

The difference with poker is that most people understand enough to be interested and the money is quite visible on the table, making each hand exciting.


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pretty boy floyd - 01-22-2007, 11:03 AM

Back10yr ago i was running tourny on week-ends in sevrral locations, just happens jonny archer and mike coaltrain showed up and this was at murphy brass rail, well johnny won, and out of coursity i went over and ask johnny if he remebers his first tv match??? he says yep-- jimmy matya beat him bad, correct as i have it on film.also bruce broung beat coltrain 7head for$500.00 in about 45min.


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Pool's bad boys: entertaining?
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Pool's bad boys: entertaining? - 01-22-2007, 11:53 AM

To those who think there is no market for the bad boys of pool, like Mataya or McReady, I refer you to Keith's performance as Grady Seasons in The Color Of Money. He was real good, wasnt he? And Ether/Earthquake aint even an actor. His personality showed through pretty crispily didnt it? Mataya had a small part and he looked good too. Even Grady Mathews gave a good account of himself. They sure outperformed Mosconi, who took the part of a rack boy and stake holder in The Hustler. Characters are who people want to watch and be entertained by.

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01-22-2007, 07:05 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillYards
True, pool will never get the big money, but that is because the average American TV viewer does not want to watch it.

The average couch potato is uneducated regarding the artistry, physics, and skill required to run a rack or execute a great safety.

It has little to do with pool's reputation, in fact, I think the reputation would draw many people to the TV.... but they won't stay because they just see two people banging balls around.

The difference with poker is that most people understand enough to be interested and the money is quite visible on the table, making each hand exciting.
I was wrong. The characters, old and young, in pool would sell... times have changed. Fox gets sponsers behind tastless crap all the time so corporate America would probably like the crazy's that we love in pool.

Unfortunately you are also right on the money in your understanding that people don't understand the phyics, art and skill involved in pool. That is the rub and I can't see that as changing.


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The warrior seeks impeccability in his own eye and calls that humbleness."
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01-22-2007, 08:11 PM

Everyone says they want pool to be a mainstream sport with the money and recognition that comes along with it. Sounds good. But are we willing to pay the cost for this to come about. Look what happened to the game and the players when it was dangled in front of them and us the fans. People are still at each others throats. Not talking about KT and his minions. But normal fans and players.

If a large corporate sponsor came in and said " Sign here and you will make a living wage with the opportunity to be very successful. But...you will do what we say, when we say, and perform for no one else but us, and no gambling or showing your ass in public.." Oh yeah and that action we all love so much. Gone from the top echelon of pool. Things like DCC without the top 100.

Would it be worth it? I have no idea. I am just rambling here and would like your opinions.

I guess we should just be careful what we wish for.
  
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Cool 12-22-2009, 11:17 PM

I used to live in Seattle... and I have met Jimmy on a few occasions with Bill Cress.... and I tell ya.... even with a few in him, the man can PLAY!!!!!

Damn, I miss the 90's in Seattle.... Pool was fun.... it had some color.....

anyway, I just wanted to put in my 2 cents....

Cheers,

Just a Gurl IN Seattle....

aka/ Rhonda

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