Rolling The Cue Ball

Well...

Start with stance. Relax as much as possible. Feel the weight of the butt end, be very aware of it. Really do this for the next 100 shots.

Align your shaft that it's 90 degrees against the table. Have another person check that, it's not as easy as it sounds. No stroking down at the cloth, please.

Then try aiming the CB where it would slow roll, i.e. a tad above complete center. It takes a few shots to find the spot where the CB just naturally rolls.
Use as less force as you possibly can.
Try doing that just into pockets (no pocketing other balls) until you have a feel for it. Balls shall not go BAMM! but just clunk (just falling in).
You should notice that the ball move "steadier" than a ball that starts off sliding.

Then try practising the good old "lag" for starters.

1) CB shal travel to opposite rail and as closely as possible stay there (1 table travel)
2) Then, CB shall come back to the rail where you started shooting (just like a lag) (2 table travel)
3) Last, CB shall travel 4 tables (down, back, down, back)


Also one thing I like very much and has gotten me forward: get another cue, something different, nothing fancy.

If you play hard tips the new cue shall get a medium to soft.
If you play a soft, whippy tip, get a stiffer one.
If you play 12,75mm tip get a 11,something.
A Cuetec R360 actually is a very good starting point if you don't have an idea on what to get. Bonus, you can get a 9mm Snooker shaft for any R360 for other kind of trainings.

This will force you to listen to the new and changed cue and adapt to it. In this process a lot of sensitivity is triggered.
The final drill is: do the same shot 4 times in a row, and after each shot exchange cue.

Finally take a look at the video how the CB actually moves:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7hNYNDGiL0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avFjRgzTL-w
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zR2IJds8cE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxiBU1LcGJw

(Very American)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QQksTl36wM

As for playing: try 8 ball or 14.1 with no sidespin at all. Just top or bottom are allowed (for all players!)

I'm sure not all agree, but at least try the stuff and see what works for you.

Cheers,
M

Your issues are involved. Give me a PM for a free lesson.

peppersauce said:

My apologies if this has been asked before. I searched and found nothing related to this.
First, I'm not talking about slow rolling the CB, just rolling it with a good stroke rather than hitting it.

I've been playing about the same speed for quite a while. A couple of years ago I got more serious about improving and put in a lot of work over a six month period. I would say I was playing just below short stop speed on average. If I hit a gear I could play decent short stop speed and had a good chance against anyone, excluding pro speed players, in short race formats, like races to 7 or 9.

I asked one of the local pro speed players, who had been watching me almost every day, for advice. One of the things he said I needed to work on was playing well with a rolling CB. I like to put a nice firm stroke on most shots and spin the CB for shape. He said I generally hit balls too hard even when I'm playing well and that getting around the table would be easier if learned to pocket balls and play shape with a rolling CB..

So fast forward to now. I'm back to playing my same old game and I'm sick of it. I have a tough table at home now and I want to up my game a couple of balls. For the last couple of weeks, I've been doing nothing but drills. Some days I'll do the same drill for 5 or 6 hrs straight..

I'm focusing on the rolling CB thing and not doing so well. My shot making is off, speed control is off, everything seems off. It's the same feeling I get playing one pocket if I have mostly been playing 8-ball and rotation games for a while.

Does anyone have any tips or advice for effectively practicing this. Maybe an intermediate or advanced drill or two that focus specifically on this. Or am I just thinking too much and need to put my phone down and keep trying? Lol.

I'm just frustrated. I feel like I'm making the same mistakes over and over again and it makes me mad after a while of messing things up.

Sorry for the long post. Thanks for ANY advice you folks might be willing to share.

Click to expand...

That's the problem!

randyg

And hey, I almost forgot: of course you can take lessons :grin-square:

First, I have no idea what the long post by MG means. I don't understand it at all and how it could possibly relate to rolling the ball -- especially changing the tip diamater.

peppersauce: The reason why you're having difficulty rolling the ball is because it's a totally different style of play than punching the ball, which is probably what you normally do. Study Efren. He's a ball roller. Most of the top Filipino players learned to roll the ball more because of the wet conditions in the Philippines.

It's not easy to adopt two different styles into your game. Not everyone can do it and not everyone wants to do it. But if you really want to try, hit the ball higher and relax your grip. Even the slightest tightness won't work. You may also want to consider relaxing your bridge slightly around the shaft. So, as you can see, rolling the ball requires a change in fundamentals and touch. It's more of a finesse touch rather than the firmer punch that you're probably used to.

The difficulty lies in being able to switch back and forth between styles on demand. It's pretty advanced stuff. So when somebody tells you you need to roll the ball more, there's a good chance that they play mostly that style themselves.

Going slightly off on a tangent.

For an intermediate player with no delusions of becoming a pro, does one style of stroke have more benefits compared to the other ?

Firm punch type stroke vs. longer smooth rolling type stroke ?

For intermediate player does it make sense to make a full change, or just stick with your preferred stroke but become adequate with the other when the shot demands it ?

ronscuba said:

Going slightly off on a tangent.

For an intermediate player with no delusions of becoming a pro, does one style of stroke have more benefits compared to the other ?

Firm punch type stroke vs. longer smooth rolling type stroke ?

For intermediate player does it make sense to make a full change, or just stick with your preferred stroke but become adequate with the other when the shot demands it ?

Click to expand...

Here's one reason why it's good to know both styles of play.

Has it ever happened to you where you noticed that you consistently play better in one venue as opposed to another? You may not have realized that the tables are reacting better to your style of play in one place as opposed to another place.

So regardless of your level and aspirations, if you want to be able to be successful in different venues, you probably should learn to do both. Many times I have had to switch styles in an event because the tables weren't allowing me to do what I wanted to do in my style of play.

Sometimes, all you need to do is switch certain types of shots. The table will tell you what it accepts and what it doesn't accept. You have to pay attention to it.

The worst thing you can do is keep trying to do something in your style when the table repeatedly keeps rejecting it. You'll get nowhere.

FranCrimi said:

Here's one reason why it's good to know both styles of play.

Has it ever happened to you where you noticed that you consistently play better in one venue as opposed to another? You may not have realized that the tables are reacting better to your style of play in one place as opposed to another place.

So regardless of your level and aspirations, if you want to be able to be successful in different venues, you probably should learn to do both. Many times I have had to switch styles in an event because the tables weren't allowing me to do what I wanted to do in my style of play.

Sometimes, all you need to do is switch certain types of shots. The table will tell you what it accepts and what it doesn't accept. You have to pay attention to it.

The worst thing you can do is keep trying to do something in your style when the table repeatedly keeps rejecting it. You'll get nowhere.

Click to expand...

Thanks Fran. Makes a lot of sense. Your email the same or better to send a PM on this site ?

You lack confidence in rolling the cue ball, right? Its something you're not used to naturally doing, right?thats why you're having issues. It brings doubt into your game. Am I going to make the ball, get shape... Too much going on in the head.

I agree when you reach your level of play you should start to learn all the types of shots in the game In order to reach a higher level. I don't agree with how you're learning to roll the cue ball. You shouldn't be giving a damn about anything other than did the cue ball go where I wanted? If you miss the pot you miss the pot... You aren't practising potting. If I was you I would just cut out a circle roughly the size of a pool ball from paper and start setting up shots. Place the white paper disc on the table and try to get the cue ball there by rolling it. Don't care for the pot so much but obviously follow your psr to try pot it but success should be judged on how close you get to the disc.

Eventually you will gain an understanding of what is possible with a rolling cue ball in terms of position.

Once it is learned you should still play your natural game and play the shot that you are most confident in... It always makes for better success rates. If you are a punchy type player then so be it. If you are a floaty type player then so be it.

Personally for me I am very similar to you. I will always look for a stun run through shot first and if it isn't on I will look for a topspin shot and if that isn't on then I will look for a rolling cue ball shot. We all have our favourite shots that we just can't screw up. It's a matter of trying to leave these shots as much as possible.... But learn all types of shots for when it doesn't quite go to plan.

I focus and feel pushing the OB where I want it to go. This results in pushing the QB to push the OB. There is no hitting involved, more like the force of the push. This is something you have to feel in your grip hand.
Naturally the QB will be rolling (if using top spin). Another way you can look at it is rolling the QB to push the OB. Its a feel thing.

Give it a try, push the OB in with the QB. Don't hit the OB just feel that your pushing it into the pocket or pushing it into a rail for a bank.

Trying to put this into words is really hard.

John

FranCrimi said:

First, I have no idea what the long post by MG means. I don't understand it at all and how it could possibly relate to rolling the ball -- especially changing the tip diamater.

peppersauce: The reason why you're having difficulty rolling the ball is because it's a totally different style of play than punching the ball, which is probably what you normally do. Study Efren. He's a ball roller. Most of the top Filipino players learned to roll the ball more because of the wet conditions in the Philippines.

It's not easy to adopt two different styles into your game. Not everyone can do it and not everyone wants to do it. But if you really want to try, hit the ball higher and relax your grip. Even the slightest tightness won't work. You may also want to consider relaxing your bridge slightly around the shaft. So, as you can see, rolling the ball requires a change in fundamentals and touch. It's more of a finesse touch rather than the firmer punch that you're probably used to.

The difficulty lies in being able to switch back and forth between styles on demand. It's pretty advanced stuff. So when somebody tells you you need to roll the ball more, there's a good chance that they play mostly that style themselves.

Click to expand...

Can you elaborate more on how to play ball rolling style? How to you incorporate ball rolling into tangent line play?

Does it rely more heavily on spin?

When you do play the tangent line, is it more timing the stun at contact, instead of punching it so that stun will be guaranteed all the way through?

Actually, watching Efren play the ghost explained a lot.

FranCrimi said:

First, I have no idea what the long post by MG means. I don't understand it at all and how it could possibly relate to rolling the ball -- especially changing the tip diamater.

peppersauce: The reason why you're having difficulty rolling the ball is because it's a totally different style of play than punching the ball, which is probably what you normally do. Study Efren. He's a ball roller. Most of the top Filipino players learned to roll the ball more because of the wet conditions in the Philippines.

It's not easy to adopt two different styles into your game. Not everyone can do it and not everyone wants to do it. But if you really want to try, hit the ball higher and relax your grip. Even the slightest tightness won't work. You may also want to consider relaxing your bridge slightly around the shaft. So, as you can see, rolling the ball requires a change in fundamentals and touch. It's more of a finesse touch rather than the firmer punch that you're probably used to.

The difficulty lies in being able to switch back and forth between styles on demand. It's pretty advanced stuff. So when somebody tells you you need to roll the ball more, there's a good chance that they play mostly that style themselves.

Click to expand...

Is it possible to play like this and have a significant pause in your backswing?

It seems like you would need to time the backswing and forward stroke as a whole in order to get the touch right.

tonythetiger583 said:

Is it possible to play like this and have a significant pause in your backswing?

It seems like you would need to time the backswing and forward stroke as a whole in order to get the touch right.

Click to expand...

Great question! I hadn't thought about it before your question, but here's what we do know:

Players that do favor a longer pause in their backswings seem to prefer a punch-style of play. We know that many snooker players do, and as for pool, I can recall Buddy Hall, who used a pronounced pause --- and he preferred to punch the balls.

On the other hand, Efren and many Filipino players that I can think of use the continuous loop stroke and definitely prefer to roll shots.

That doesn't mean that players who use a pronounced pause in their backswings can't roll the ball. They may be able to execute shots when they need them, but you may very well be right that as a general style, rolling balls and long backswing pauses don't necessarily go together.

That's a very impressive technical question and great observation. Hat's off to you for posing it.

peppersauce said:

Darren is a great ball roller and his stroke is straight as an arrow. He plays a lot of stun shots too though. Chris Melling rolls the ball beautifully as well.

Click to expand...

I can't think of one professional player who can't roll the cue ball when necessary. However, I can think of players who prefer not to unless it's necessary. Players do tend to shoot one way more than the other. It's a matter of style, and that long pause issue in the backstroke is a very interesting observation.

Can anyone provide more in depth information on this topic and it's nuances?