why so many kicks/skids?

evergruven

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
crazy..
I just got done playing and have never experienced more kicks in such a short period of time
must've been 4-5 in about an hour and a half
only one of them occurred with my using outside english
seemingly only significant change in playing conditions is my tip,
which is now much more hard after shaving it down pretty good
the tip is also made of paper (more on that later).
hard tip? murphy's law? tonight, on "mysteries of pool"...
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
hard tip?
Your tip has nothing to do with skids - it's all about the friction between the balls themselves, most likely the cue ball collecting/holding more chalk than usual (some brands do that). Or they're just dirty as others said.

pj
chgo
 

evergruven

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Yeah take a shower.

ball cleaner, ball breaker, what's the difference right:thumbup:

I wonder tho..so the balls I mostly play with are nice aramith balls, only one year old
once in awhile, I clean a bit of black crud off them (from pocket, I guess),
but otherwise they are pretty shiny and sticky
this said, I also play with crappy old bar balls and almost never get skids with those..
even tho they're definitely not clean, those balls seem kind of "dry" compared to the aramiths I play with
does that jive? is it possible that skids can occur more with nicer, newer balls *because*
they're so nice that one little bit of chalk, etc. can cause them to kick?
 

Tom1234

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I’ve found that the object ball seems to “skid” more closer to the rails. I’ve seen an object ball almost stop (I could plainly see the number on the ball) before continuing on it’s way. I couldn’t figure out why until I saw an idiot chalk grinder chalk his cue over the f*-$#*g table! OB hits chalk spot, friction takes over, missed shot. Thank you idiot chalk grinder.
 

Black-Balled

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
ball cleaner, ball breaker, what's the difference right:thumbup:

I wonder tho..so the balls I mostly play with are nice aramith balls, only one year old
once in awhile, I clean a bit of black crud off them (from pocket, I guess),
but otherwise they are pretty shiny and sticky
this said, I also play with crappy old bar balls and almost never get skids with those..
even tho they're definitely not clean, those balls seem kind of "dry" compared to the aramiths I play with
does that jive? is it possible that skids can occur more with nicer, newer balls *because*
they're so nice that one little bit of chalk, etc. can cause them to kick?
I ain't no smart but I think I done found sumpin.
 

MattPoland

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
ball cleaner, ball breaker, what's the difference right:thumbup:



I wonder tho..so the balls I mostly play with are nice aramith balls, only one year old

once in awhile, I clean a bit of black crud off them (from pocket, I guess),

but otherwise they are pretty shiny and sticky

this said, I also play with crappy old bar balls and almost never get skids with those..

even tho they're definitely not clean, those balls seem kind of "dry" compared to the aramiths I play with

does that jive? is it possible that skids can occur more with nicer, newer balls *because*

they're so nice that one little bit of chalk, etc. can cause them to kick?


I don’t think you want sticky balls. Shiny...sure. Sticky...not so much.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
I’ve found that the object ball seems to “skid” more closer to the rails. I’ve seen an object ball almost stop (I could plainly see the number on the ball) before continuing on it’s way. I couldn’t figure out why until I saw an idiot chalk grinder chalk his cue over the f*-$#*g table! OB hits chalk spot, friction takes over, missed shot. Thank you idiot chalk grinder.
This doesn't make sense to me. Balls don't slow down and then speed back up. And chalk on the ball only causes skids when it's exactly on the contact point between the CB and OB when they collide.

A skid (or "cling") is when the OB is thrown more than normal on a cut shot, going straighter than expected - or, on a straight shot, when the CB jumps up a little on contact with the OB ("climbs" the OB) and both balls go slower than expected afterward. Whatever happens before or after the CB/OB collision is something else.

pj
chgo
 

8cree

Reverse Engineer
Silver Member
I thought a kick was when you went rail first?

But other than that, the answers are all here.

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8cree

Reverse Engineer
Silver Member
Ok, reasonable I reckon. So what do they call a kick?

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Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Ok, reasonable I reckon. So what do they call a kick?
...
The British have a different word for everything. It's like they don't even speak English any more.;) For instance, they can put several bags of groceries into their boots.:eek: I don't think they have any special word for cushion-first shots. Banks they call "doubles". Crazy.

Different words for this single problem of too much friction at the contact point:
skid, cling -- US English
kick -- UK English and the snooker world
bad contact, heavy contact -- carom players speaking English
buttage -- French (boo-tahj)

Here is a video in French talking about "buttages" and demonstrating them:
http://corcelia1.over-blog.com/2016/06/le-buttage-au-billard.html
 
Last edited:

Nostroke

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I’ve found that the object ball seems to “skid” more closer to the rails. I’ve seen an object ball almost stop (I could plainly see the number on the ball) before continuing on it’s way. I couldn’t figure out why until I saw an idiot chalk grinder chalk his cue over the f*-$#*g table! OB hits chalk spot, friction takes over, missed shot. Thank you idiot chalk grinder.

on every shot w a chalked tip-chalk flies off the tip/ball and on to the table. This accounts for about 30x as much chalk on the table than that idiot chalk grinder you FINALLY saw.
 

evergruven

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I ain't no smart but I think I done found sumpin.

ok, perhaps "sticky" was a poor choice of words :D
what I meant was, newer balls have this coating, this gloss, this "grip" to them,
that older, bar, etc. balls don't seem to have.
my balls are purty clean tho!
but say some chalk or sumpin finds its way onto one of these nice, newer balls
could then, that relative surface anomaly affect ball-ball contact (skid, kick, cling)
*more* than it would on a bar ball set that's old and has had much more time to "process" these anomalies
-?
 

Black-Balled

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hold up there, Bob.

We have long discussed the proximate cause of skids and now, le French are producing them on demand?

So the cause is revealed?

I have never needed wifi more than now...:thud:

The British have a different word for everything. It's like they don't even speak English any more.;) For instance, they can put several bags of groceries into their boots.:eek: I don't think they have any special word for cushion-first shots. Banks they call "doubles". Crazy.

Different words for this single problem of too much friction at the contact point:
skid, cling -- US English
kick -- UK English and the snooker world
bad contact, heavy contact -- carom players speaking English
buttage -- French (boo-tahj)

Here is a video in French talking about "buttages" and demonstrating them:
http://corcelia1.over-blog.com/2016/06/le-buttage-au-billard.html
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
I’ve seen an object ball almost stop (I could plainly see the number on the ball) before continuing on it’s way.
Since they're always hit dead vertical center by the CB, OBs always slide a little ways before starting to pick up rolling rotation from friction with the cloth. Could this be what you saw, with the number conveniently oriented to vividly illustrate it for you?

pj
chgo
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
... So the cause is revealed? ...
I've been doing kicks on demand for twenty years or so. The cause has been known since the 1980s. Except in the UK, where they still think it's due to phlogiston or weevils.
 
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