Tuned shaft ...

scdiveteam

scdiveteam

Rick Geschrey
Silver Member
Hi,

If you hold your shaft on the very end points and bow it, where does the flex point exist along the 29 inches?

If the shaft bends near the center for example, your taper needs to be re engineered.

The linerar shaft dimensions create a climb ratio that is directionally proportional to the harmonic resonance.

If the design of cue ball mass is redesigned significantly, then we would all have to recalculate our shaft design.

This is pure physics not an opinion.

Rick
 
Last edited:
BarenbruggeCues

BarenbruggeCues

Unregistered User
Silver Member
scdiveteam said:
Hi,

If you hold your shaft on the very end points and bow it, where does the flex point exist along the 29 inches?

If the shaft bends near the center for example, your taper needs to be re engineered.

The linerar shaft dimensions create a climb ratio that is directionally proportional to the harmonic resonance.

If the design of cue ball mass is redesigned significantly, then we would all have to recalculate our shaft design.

This is pure physics not an opinion.

Rick
Click to expand...

What facts are there to substantiate your pure physics and not your opinion?

What is a linerar shaft dimension?
Can you substantiate your facts of this claim?

Why are you worried about the cue ball mass being redesigned?
 
WilleeCue

WilleeCue

The Barefoot Cuemaker
Silver Member
scdiveteam said:
Hi,

If you hold your shaft on the very end points and bow it, where does the flex point exist along the 29 inches?

If the shaft bends near the center for example, your taper needs to be re engineered.

The linerar shaft dimensions create a climb ratio that is directly proportional to the harmonic resonance.

If the design of cue ball mass is redesigned significantly, then we would all have to recalculate our shaft design.

This is pure physics not an opinion.

Rick
Click to expand...

Rick, dont the resonance depend on length, density, and a few other factors?
Each shaft is a bit different ... not to mention the ones made from materials other than hard maple.
So every shaft would have its own ideal profile.
How do you measure the resonance frequency of a shaft and would it not change when you changed the profile?
 
JoeyInCali

JoeyInCali

Maker of Joey Bautista Cues
Silver Member
scdiveteam said:
Hi,

If you hold your shaft on the very end points and bow it, where does the flex point exist along the 29 inches?

If the shaft bends near the center for example, your taper needs to be re engineered.

The linerar shaft dimensions create a climb ratio that is directionally proportional to the harmonic resonance.

If the design of cue ball mass is redesigned significantly, then we would all have to recalculate our shaft design.

This is pure physics not an opinion.

Rick
Click to expand...
Sounds like unsubstantiated opinions to me.
 
Dave38

Dave38

theemperorhasnoclotheson
Silver Member
This is gonna get good...lmao


EatingPopcorn-512.png
 
Kim Bye

Kim Bye

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
scdiveteam said:
Hi,

If you hold your shaft on the very end points and bow it, where does the flex point exist along the 29 inches?

If the shaft bends near the center for example, your taper needs to be re engineered.

The linerar shaft dimensions create a climb ratio that is directionally proportional to the harmonic resonance.

If the design of cue ball mass is redesigned significantly, then we would all have to recalculate our shaft design.

This is pure physics not an opinion.

Rick
Click to expand...

So based on your understanding, where should a shaft bend?
My impression is that shaft designs/taper comes in as many variants as there are pool players. Some like a super stiff shaft around 13mm tip diameter and a more coned taper, while others again just cant seem to get a soft enough hit, they want a super long pro taper, skinny shaft, light weight ferrule and the absolute softest tip on the market. Among players it seems that there is no consensus at all for what makes a great hitting cue, shaft or tip...
Just look at Mcdermotts latest offering, the iPro, an almost carom like taper and extremely stiff, while the other shafts in the i range has a very long taper and a very different feel to them.
 
BarenbruggeCues

BarenbruggeCues

Unregistered User
Silver Member
scdiveteam said:
Hi,

If you hold your shaft on the very end points and bow it, where does the flex point exist along the 29 inches?

If the shaft bends near the center for example, your taper needs to be re engineered.

The linerar shaft dimensions create a climb ratio that is directionally proportional to the harmonic resonance.

If the design of cue ball mass is redesigned significantly, then we would all have to recalculate our shaft design.

This is pure physics not an opinion.

Rick
Click to expand...

Calling all those named Rick who may have tipped the bottle a bit too far before spouting off an unsubstantiated opinion claiming it to be pure physics.

The dinner bell is ringing...........
 
PRED

PRED

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
shaft TUNING? isn't THAT WHERE THE MAKER DRILLS ABOVE THE INSERT AND ADDS WEIGHT VIA SET SCREWS TO GET BOTH SHAFTS TO 4 OZ?
 
WilleeCue

WilleeCue

The Barefoot Cuemaker
Silver Member
PRED said:
shaft TUNING? isn't THAT WHERE THE MAKER DRILLS ABOVE THE INSERT AND ADDS WEIGHT VIA SET SCREWS TO GET BOTH SHAFTS TO 4 OZ?
Click to expand...

PRED, I guess that is about as close to actually tuning a shaft as you can get.
You can measure the weight, make an adjustment and then measure the result.
Yep ... that is one thing you can really "tune".
But ... is that what the all the tuning hype is about?

If I were to do what I was willing to call "tuning" I would ask the player if his cue hit to stiff or loose.
If he said to stiff, I would re-taper the profile a bit to a looser one and return the cue asking the player to hit with it for a few days.
After time passed the process would repeat.
Hopefully he will say "just right" before he says "oops ... to loose" ... :eek: ...

As you can see this "tuning" requires interaction and feedback from the player over a period of time.
 
Last edited:
scdiveteam

scdiveteam

Rick Geschrey
Silver Member
Kim Bye said:
So based on your understanding, where should a shaft bend?

Hi Kim,

In the bridge area.

The exact point is subjective and will determine the exact harmonic frequency of a shaft relative to a pool ball and CM's specific design configuration, ie " The Hit ".

There is a reason that a 13 mm or slightly larger maple shaft is optimum for a repeatable measured stroke IMO. One can question this statement but I would respectfully disagree.

Billiard balls are larger and heavier for example and they require a stronger climb and flex point with an all together different overall shaft design.

Ray Schuler spent more of his time (years) and energy studying and experimenting with this exact subject more than most people in our trade understand.

I lived one mile from his shop and was lucky enough to be mentored by Ray's best friend and pantograph artist Stew Mortsen. Today Stew is 95 years young, is living and driving independantly and is still sharp as a tac. God has blessed him with great genes.

Rick
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
JoeyInCali

JoeyInCali

Maker of Joey Bautista Cues
Silver Member
scdiveteam said:
Kim Bye said:
So based on your understanding, where should a shaft bend?

Hi Kim,

In the bridge area.

The exact point is subjective and will determine the exact harmonic frequency of a shaft relative to a pool ball and CM's specific design configuration, ie " The Hit ".

There is a reason that a 13 mm or slightly larger maple shaft is optimum for a repeatable measured stroke IMO. One can question this statement but I would respectfully disagree.

Billiard balls are larger and heavier for example and they require a stronger climb and flex point with an all together different overall shaft design.

Ray Schuler spent more of his time (years) and energy studying and experimenting with this exact subject more than most people in our trade understand.

I lived one mile from his shop and was lucky enough to be mentored by Ray's best friend and pantograph artist Stew Mortsen. Today Stew is 95 years young, is living and driving independantly and is still sharp as a tac. God has blessed him with great genes.

Rick
Click to expand...

No such thing as optimal ( btw, the word is optimal, not optimum ) diameter for a "repeatable measured" stroke .
Years ago, they took a survey of professional pool players' shafts, they averaged less than 13 mm.
3-Cushion players do not play with 13 mm tips for sure .
Most play with tips a lot smaller than that.

Ray Schuler was a great cue maker but his shaft taper was not a popular choice for pool players . And that continues today. Z3 shafts might be the exception among these "performance" shafts .
The most popular taper these days is the " pro-taper " . Meaning the taper is about 1.25 mm or less to the middle of the shaft .
Anything about 2mm or more of taper to the middle is considered "stiff" taper these days. And it's not the popular choice.

And I would venture to say, most players these days prefer compound linear tapers on their shafts. 3 to 5 linear angles . In cue making , you are really just concerned about the 3 angles. The other two are just there to meet where the stroking area ends and where the joint taper matches closely the forearm's.
Learned that eons ago from writing taper codes manually.
Click to expand...
 
BarenbruggeCues

BarenbruggeCues

Unregistered User
Silver Member
scdiveteam said:
Kim Bye said:
So based on your understanding, where should a shaft bend?

Hi Kim,

In the bridge area.

The exact point is subjective and will determine the exact harmonic frequency of a shaft relative to a pool ball and CM's specific design configuration, ie " The Hit ".

There is a reason that a 13 mm or slightly larger maple shaft is optimum for a repeatable measured stroke IMO. One can question this statement but I would respectfully disagree.

Billiard balls are larger and heavier for example and they require a stronger climb and flex point with an all together different overall shaft design.

Ray Schuler spent more of his time (years) and energy studying and experimenting with this exact subject more than most people in our trade understand.

I lived one mile from his shop and was lucky enough to be mentored by Ray's best friend and pantograph artist Stew Mortsen. Today Stew is 95 years young, is living and driving independantly and is still sharp as a tac. God has blessed him with great genes.

Rick
Click to expand...

What? More BS as usual. You really don't have a clue and must think Kim is an idiot and he is the only one reading this crap?
How about answering the questions asked to some of your other typical BS posts?

Just because you lived close to Ray doesn't mean squat. You should have listened better cause you obviously didn't learn a bag of beans.

Just more diversionary tactics with your ho hum BS.

Give it up...nobody believes one word of what you post here or anywhere else.
Click to expand...
 
cueman

cueman

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
BarenbruggeCues said:
scdiveteam said:
What? More BS as usual. You really don't have a clue and must think Kim is an idiot and he is the only one reading this crap?
How about answering the questions asked to some of your other typical BS posts?

Just because you lived close to Ray doesn't mean squat. You should have listened better cause you obviously didn't learn a bag of beans.

Just more diversionary tactics with your ho hum BS.

Give it up...nobody believes one word of what you post here or anywhere else.
Click to expand...

This seems like some animosity from old times and maybe even other forums has been brought over here. He is just stating his opinions. You are chastising him for not answering your questions, but you also were asked what tuning a cue was by the thread starter. And you let us know you know how and what it is and never said what it is. We all know you are a good cuemaker and you could be a great asset to the forum. But letting us know you know more than most without sharing anything adds nothing to the forum. And venting on Rick every chance you get also adds nothing. I am not a moderator but just trying to be a peace maker. Some wear being banned here on AZ as a badge of honor on other forums. I hope you don't let your animosity toward Rick get you that badge.
Click to expand...
 
JoeyInCali

JoeyInCali

Maker of Joey Bautista Cues
Silver Member
cueman said:
BarenbruggeCues said:
This seems like some animosity from old times and maybe even other forums has been brought over here. He is just stating his opinions. You are chastising him for not answering your questions, but you also were asked what tuning a cue was by the thread starter. And you let us know you know how and what it is and never said what it is. We all know you are a good cuemaker and you could be a great asset to the forum. But letting us know you know more than most without sharing anything adds nothing to the forum. And venting on Rick every chance you get also adds nothing. I am not a moderator but just trying to be a peace maker. Some wear being banned here on AZ as a badge of honor on other forums. I hope you don't let your animosity toward Rick get you that badge.
Click to expand...

It wasn't an opinion.
He said it was PHYSICS.
Hi,

If you hold your shaft on the very end points and bow it, where does the flex point exist along the 29 inches?

If the shaft bends near the center for example, your taper needs to be re engineered.

The linerar shaft dimensions create a climb ratio that is directionally proportional to the harmonic resonance.

If the design of cue ball mass is redesigned significantly, then we would all have to recalculate our shaft design.

This is pure physics not an opinion.

Rick
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Kim Bye

Kim Bye

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
cueman said:
BarenbruggeCues said:
This seems like some animosity from old times and maybe even other forums has been brought over here. He is just stating his opinions. You are chastising him for not answering your questions, but you also were asked what tuning a cue was by the thread starter. And you let us know you know how and what it is and never said what it is. We all know you are a good cuemaker and you could be a great asset to the forum. But letting us know you know more than most without sharing anything adds nothing to the forum. And venting on Rick every chance you get also adds nothing. I am not a moderator but just trying to be a peace maker. Some wear being banned here on AZ as a badge of honor on other forums. I hope you don't let your animosity toward Rick get you that badge.
Click to expand...
I agree with what you are saying, at the same time I can understand the frustration, when some people are creating buzzwords out of thin air, and subsequently myself and all other cuemakers have to deal with debunking and explaining all the crazy stuff poolplayers read online. I have to spend a fair share of my time answering/correcting players ideas on all kinds of stuff, usually that is time I instead could spend actually making cues and money :)
Click to expand...
 
Snooker Theory

Snooker Theory

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
JoeyInCali said:
btw, the word is optimal, not optimum )
Click to expand...

I was a bit confused about that, maybe you could explain it as you seem fairly familiar with the two words and some of the info online is a bit contradictory.

Checked the ol' Merriam-Webster which said, "Some will say that you should enjoy the distinction the two forms provide, and use optimum only as a noun, and use optimal for the adjective. English does have a number of pairs that follow that same pattern: bacterium/bacterial, cerebrum/cerebral, cranium/cranial, imperium/imperial. (Yes, we know we're getting into some obscure territory with that last one.) But English has also resisted such distinctions in less technical words: no one says individuum anymore; individual functions as both noun and adjective."

Is it set in stone or not, love to hear your opinion. Thanks
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top