Thanks. One interesting thing about the Mosconi vs Fats video is the wolfing when Fats pulled out a wad and wanted to play Mosconi in one pocket. Mosconi declined the offer.
Does anyone have Ronnie Allen on video playing
- Thread starter deanoc
- Start date
Thanks. One interesting thing about the Mosconi vs Fats video is the wolfing when Fats pulled out a wad and wanted to play Mosconi in one pocket. Mosconi declined the offer.
Mosconi thought 1p was a gimmick game.Does anyone really think Fats had a chance at any game? Willie would have shot his nuts off.
Not necessarily. It depends on how mad Willie would have gotten with the sharking. Would he have played better with smoke coming out of his ears?
And I love when somebody comes in and complains about it.
It never occurs to them to ignore the post and read something else instead of complaining about it.
Some people aren't as adept at searching or they may be on a cell phone, which is a pain in the ass to use with the small keypad.
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Thanks Dean. It is also JC's birthday. Not only do me and him have the same birthday, we share the same initials.
Ronnie always downplayed his own game, never bragging about the guys he beat. Even when confronted with his victories over strong players Ronnie would offer a reason why he came out on top. He was smart that way.
There was probably 40K-50K in side action during the match. There were some pretty serious high rollers sweating the action and making bets all three days. Harry Platis, Weenie Beenie, Puckett, David Lee (who owned the Golden Eight Ball), and various other bookies and such who favored one player over the other. I didn't know all these guys but Ronnie and Danny did, frequently making comments to them during the match.
This is where Harry got me to play him some $1,000 a game One Pocket, the most I had ever bet in my life. I did okay. :smile:
I was there for most of it. Something in the neighborhood of 26K or 27K in total, after two weeks of play, all at 300 a game. Don't think for a minute that Richie couldn't play. It took a top player to beat him at any game, and even the best players wanted no part of him playing even 9-Ball.
Fats did match up good. But he still had to play good to get the cash. Most real players respected his game. He was no pushover as some would like to portray him.
He needed it to beat Ronnie. No way was 8-7 enough. You are right though. Ronnie beat a lot of very good players giving up games like that. Ronnie liked to give top One Pocket players a game like 10-6 and take the break. Sounds good on paper, but he dusted a bunch of them at that game. He could run ten better than they could run six. They couldn't overcome his break!
His other pet game was to play a top player dead even, his one hand to their two and take the break. Same result!
I ran with Ronnie off and on for several years and he was most amazing at getting people to gamble sight unseen. He could go in a bar where they were playing $2 Eight Ball and have them betting $10 and $20 a game and taking action from everyone in the room. Many times we were betting over $100 a game in total (I would hold the dough). Ronnie might win seven or eight hundred and everyone in the joint loved him! They would ask him when he's coming back. I swear I never saw a hustler like him.
Not at One Pocket or Banks! Fats would crucify Willie at either of those games and did get him one time. He got Willie to play him Straight Pool where they shot one ball straight in and the next one had to be a bank shot. You had to alternate straight-ins and bank shots. This was in Willie's dad's poolroom in Philly, when they were both young men. Willie never forgot this loss and hated Fats for outsmarting him.
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Jay -
Obviously I respect you and your opinion, but as I have seen quite a bit of these old players and frankly they don't impress me at all. The above video with Bugs, and he missed easy shots. UJ Puckett was joke, and have never seen Fats play well on video.
I cant help the think if any of these "legends" were to match up with Alex, Scott Frost, Tony Chohan, Efren in a wheelchair, they wouldn't stand a chance.
Am I missing anything?
I got the Ronnie / Danny dvds from you years ago, and I understand both were older "ie non prime", I don't see how either of those guys could even place at the DCC one pocket.
Not trying to be an a$$, but damn today's players seem to be light years ahead of these old guys.
Ken
Most of the videos you refer to (like Fats and Willie) are far beyond their prime. Even Ronnie and Danny had seen better days. It was the last time I saw Ronnie play a decent game of One Pocket. His game had slipped maybe two balls by then but he still showed flashes of his old form, kind of like Strickland today. All of the above guys you mention played better for the cash, then they did in tournaments. There was a tendency back then to hide your speed when playing in a tournament full of sweaters, and save your A speed for the money.
All that said, there is no question in my mind that there are more good players today. That is not to say that the last generation or two couldn't have played just as good if they had the same equipment to play with it and the same opponents to compete against.
Yes and when speaking about the very best of yesteryear or even today, its difficult to get better when few are even close. Ever have a lesser player bring your game down?
If you look a Ceulemans as an example. He dominated for many many years. After his 1990 World Championship he seemed to be sidelined, maybe over the hill. His competition were scoring World Tournament grand averages well above what he achieved. Then in 2001 he became World Champion again and with I believe his highest grand average in his career in the World Championship.
The moral of that story is in my opinion, Ceulemans raised the level of the game for all the lesser players till they were beating him regularly, which in turn raised his game. He studied, practiced, mastered, then studied, practiced and mastered till he reached the top. The difference between a champion and bums like most of us.
ummmm……….no
The night Tony passed away, he and Keith were playing online poker together. They played almost every night, taking turns watching each other's games. Keith loved Tony.
Here's a few photos of Tony's gym with Pacman practicing, Tony's office with all the autographed boxing gloves, Tony and Keith on Lake Meade in Tony's boat, and Tony playing Robert Duran the boxer.
Tony let Keith and Ronnie both stay at his place when they were in Vegas. Tony was Cherokee Indian, hailed from Oklahoma. When he passed away, his body was returned to his family there.
Tony loved pool, poker, and all sports. He did have a full-size gym at his home property, and a lot of famous boxers practiced at Tony's place before a big fight in Vegas.
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I was talking about the Florence score. I got the word third hand he said otherwise. Oh well. I recall one account said Fats would show up late every nite when Richie was all worn out. Smart Fats meets fat; cancels the fat and leaves smart.
"Cherub's face on a devil's body and mind!!!" Perfect. Especially when you added in the incessant funny chatter.
Last time I saw him was at Hard Times when he came in with two guys from the Crenshaw area and played the same game where every other shot he shot one handed. 6K posted. Not exactly sure what the game was as it 30 years ago but I do know he took the cash and kept me laughing all night with his constant patter.
Only he and Keith could do that patter bit with the other guys not visibly taking offense and come to think of it Keith not all of the time. lol
I was only on the periphery but seem to remember Richie only playing 1 Hole when it became so hard for him to get a rotational game.
I agree that there are many gifted 1 Hole players today. However, I don't see many of them liking a straight up game with Ronnie in his prime.