Anyone know if Mosconi ever saw Efren play, and if so, .....

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jrctherake

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I've read every single post in this thread and this is what I have to say:

WHO GIVES A CHIT?

You guys are starting to sound like fooking idiots.

I'm hoping one of you will not PROVE what I say and respond in a fooked up way.

Why not go back to "low deflection", "the hit", "the feel"..... OR go back to sleep.
 
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LeftyIke

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
JRChterake, who cares that you don’t give a Chit? Ever heard of Free Speech? You can’t tell me where to go or to go to sleep,Idiot.
 
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LeftyIke

AzB Silver Member
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Jay, are you sure about Cowboy? He said he always bet his own money. I don’t know, I’m just telling you what he said. He didn’t say that he was a better Banker than Eddie Taylor. He also said he beat Lassiter 90% of the times they played. I appreciate your opinions on their Talent level, I do know that Lassiter is much more famous and has more Tournament victories.
 
jay helfert

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member
LeftyIke said:
Jay, I didn’t say that Cowboy Jimmy Moore was the only interview I’ve ever heard or read, or that everything he said was Gospel-truth! I read Fats opinions, I read Mosconi’s Book, Cornbread’s Book, and many more, Bob Byrne’s Books, and more, including Video interviews. I honor and respect your opinion, too. All of them help form opinions on the Great Players and characters. Fats said that Eddie Taylor was hands-down the Best banker ever, while others say that Bugs was the Best, and some say Brumback was. Don’t you think that I know that opinions vary? For example, many believe that Willie Hope, and Raymond Ceulemans wer much more dominant in their games than Mosconi. Again opinions, but cuelemans has 35 World Championships, 48 European Titles, and 61 National Titles! It’s a different game, but I’m talking about dominance. I Love Mosconi’s game, who doesn’t, his Skill and Cue-Ball contra are legendary, and his reputation as a Champion is justified, and cannot be questioned, although other authorities like you, say that Greenleaf was just as talented. You do realize that you don’t have to travel with Great Players to write about them ,Coach therm, judge them, or sometimes even Coach them, don’t you. Some of the Greatest Coaches and Instructors ever, weren’t Great Players. I don’t form my opinions totally from one person’s perspective. I respect your History and track-recorded, I respect Lou’s opinion- and you Guys attack him too, when he doesn’t agree with you! Pete do you honestly think that RTace isn’t involved in Politics?? Look at what “Our President” is saying nearly everyday? Are World Leaders and Reporters from all over the World calling him Racist? You can’t be serious! He liners and makes Racist statement more than any President in recent times, that’s a Fact! Where’s have you been? YTou don’t have to be a Democrat or Republican to verify that. Fact-Check is non-Party dependent, but they verify statements. Are they attacking the President for no reason? You too, are Clueless. I never said that Cowboy Jimmy Moore was the Greatest Pool Players ever, or the Ultimate Authority on Pool Players! LOL!
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Thanks Ike for this. You are right that most of the old time players (when I was a kid) all said that Greenleaf was the best ever, better than Mosconi and you know he would gamble too. I also agree that Ceulemans (and possibly Walter Lindrum) may have been the best players of billiard games ever. Even Mosconi called Ceulemans the best he ever saw! I first saw him play in Vegas in the 1980's and he had the most solid stance and stroke I've ever seen, to this day! What a great player he was, and still playing well into his late 70's now. Taylor, Bugs and Cannonball are the three best bankers I ever saw, including today's greats. Only Jason Miller from Dayton could play that speed and he only did it for maybe two years. You may not know this but in the 1950's all the great players were afraid to gamble with Cannonball at any game, including 14.1! He would go to the world championships looking for action and they all ducked him. Lassiter is the only one who Cannonball ever said would gamble with him and they broke even after a week of play.
 
jay helfert

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
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LeftyIke said:
Jay, are you sure about Cowboy? He said he always bet his own money. I don’t know, I’m just telling you what he said. He didn’t say that he was a better Banker than Eddie Taylor. He also said he beat Lassiter 90% of the times they played. I appreciate your opinions on their Talent level, I do know that Lassiter is much more famous and has more Tournament victories.
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Yes, he would bet his own money, up to a point! He liked to play $20 9-Ball and freeze up 100 or 200. He was uncomfortable betting too high and liked to have Daddy Warbucks, Weenie Beenie, Marcel Camp or someone else behind him for big money. I don't know about his gambling games with Lassiter, but I do know about his tournament record against him and it was a losing record. Jimmy did beat the Ten Ball ring games with all the best players in Johnston City (20 a man) until they barred him! No question that Jimmy Moore was a top five player in his heyday and probably played better at an advanced age than anyone else. He was still running racks of 9-Ball and 100 balls at Straight Pool in his 80's!
 
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ShortBusRuss

ShortBusRuss

Short Bus Russ - C Player
Silver Member
LeftyIke said:
Jay, I didn’t say that Cowboy Jimmy Moore was the only interview I’ve ever heard or read, or that everything he said was Gospel-truth! I read Fats opinions, I read Mosconi’s Book, Cornbread’s Book, and many more, Bob Byrne’s Books, and more, including Video interviews.
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Great. Now we are getting somewhere. As has been asked multiple times, please provide the source you are referencing for Mosconi's supposed racism. Since you weren't THERE, the only possible way you would know he was racist is if you READ it or HEARD it in an interview.

Jay Helfert has provide information to the contrary, so it is time for you to put up some hard facts, NOT just your "educated opinion".

Now... All you have to do is provide your source, so everyone can stop thinking of you as some arsehole who slanders people without any proof.
 
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JohnnyOzone

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
LeftyIke said:
Are World Leaders and Reporters from all over the World calling him Racist? You can’t be serious! He liners and makes Racist statement more than any President in recent times, that’s a Fact! Where’s have you been? You don’t have to be a Democrat or Republican to verify that. Fact-Check is non-Party dependent, but they verify statements. !
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You actually, ON PURPOSE, typed this. WOW. You can't for the life of you understand why almost all media are using talking points supplied by the Left and repeating them ad nauseum? You truly think "Fact-Check" is not partisan? You are so immersed in information provided by only one side that you accept it as fact because you either insulate yourself from all the actual facts, or you dismiss the ones that don't fit your narrative.

Oh, and yeah, you definitely should take the word of the guy who claims that they bet Wimpy 90% of the time. I guess it;s a good thing he didn't tell you he designed the Saturn V rocket, too.
 
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LeftyIke

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
JohnnyOzone, you don’t believe that anyone that criticizes Trump knows anything. Again, I didn’t say that everything Moore said was Gospel. Did you see that remark? Are all of the News agencies lying on Trump? Has Trump lied more than any President in history? I gave many sources that corroborated opinions about Mosconi’s personality and temperament. The Republican Party is not diverse, and was Silent on Steve King and David Duke for over a decade, Genius. Try again.
 
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JohnnyOzone

AzB Silver Member
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LeftyIke said:
JohnnyOzone, you don’t believe that anyone that criticizes Trump knows anything.
I NEVER SAID THAT. I SAID YOU DON'T KNOW EVERYTHING, AND BELIEVE MANY THINGS THAT ARE UNTRUE

Are all of the News agencies lying on Trump?
Almost all of them, every day, YES They all repeat, word for word, the same messages as each other,provided by their fellow Leftists If you bothered to learn all the actual facts, you would see this As far as diversity goes, you don't want diversity of thought. You only judge by things such as skin color, religion, sexual inclination, etc.

Has Trump lied more than any President in history? I gave many sources that corroborated opinions about Mosconi’s personality and temperament. The Republican Party is not diverse, and was Silent on Steve King and David Duke for over a decade, Genius. Try again.
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Do you even know the story of David Duke?

Anyway, I will end with this.....try to understand the difference between bigotism and racism
 
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LeftyIke

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
As sources, I mentioned Books by Fats, Byrne, Mosconi, Danny McGoorty’s Book, talking to Cornbread Red at The Rack in Oak Park(Detroit-Area), talking to Bugs and his Road Manager John McHenry, talking to Backers and Bettors at The Rack while the Best Gamblers in the World played, Videos from many Champs and Road Players, stories about Rags Fitzpatrick,stories from and about Harold Worst. You had to have seen some of those references made earlier. Why don’t you mention your sources that say that Mosconi was a kind, mild-mannered, temperate, gentleman? LOL! You’re hilarious!
 
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LeftyIke

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The word is Bigot or Bigotry, not bigotism, there is no such thing. Bigotry: -obstinate or intolerant devotion to one’s own opinions and prejudices. Racism:- A belief that Race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race. Sound like Hitler or Trump? Do you understand why Jewish people never want you to forget what Hitler did to them? Are they whining about it, or Racist? Wow! Clueless.
 
ShortBusRuss

ShortBusRuss

Short Bus Russ - C Player
Silver Member
LeftyIke said:
As sources, I mentioned Books by Fats, Byrne, Mosconi, Danny McGoorty’s Book, talking to Cornbread Red at The Rack in Oak Park(Detroit-Area), talking to Bugs and his Road Manager John McHenry, talking to Backers and Bettors at The Rack while the Best Gamblers in the World played, Videos from many Champs and Road Players, stories about Rags Fitzpatrick,stories from and about Harold Worst. You had to have seen some of those references made earlier. Why don’t you mention your sources that say that Mosconi was a kind, mild-mannered, temperate, gentleman? LOL! You’re hilarious!
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You've been asked multiple times to provide a source for your assertion that Mosconi was racist.

It would be a piss-poor source, but heck, I'll even listen if you say a specific PLAYER ever said Mosconi was racist, or heard Mosconi said something racist.

But you have failed to do so. Which is why everyone is busting your balls and thinks you're an idiot.

At ANY time, you could just provide a source for that statement, and we can all be the judge of how strong your source is.
 
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LeftyIke

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
World leaders and News organizations, worldwide, pronounce Trump as racist, and his own Cabinet says that he is uninformed, and hardly even reads his reports! I guess you know better than them, JohnnyOzone! Laura Ingraham, from Fox News called Trump an Idiot today! She is not a Liberal.
 
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LeftyIke

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I agreed with tenfttall, that Mosconi was intolerant, short-tempered, and showed open disdain toward the audience, and his opponents. You don’t have to wear a KKK Hood to be racist. If you’re watching people get hung, put in concentration camps, forced to pick cotton, driven off their land, or raped by Priests, and you don’t say or do anything about it, you are COMPLICIT! Look the word up. As a human, you have a moral duty to acknowledge it, and do something about it. The families that posed in front of Lynched, castrated, Slaves are complicit. The White Boston Celtics that went into Hotels and Restaurants, but Bill Russell and Sam Jones couldn’t, we’re complicit, until someone spoke up, the Civil Rights Bill was passed, and America came out of its Racist past. Mosconi wasn’t alone, but he didn’t have to stand in front of the door, blocking entrance. At the Johnston City Tournaments, a Hat was passed around , where players voted whether to allow Blacks to play. Was it racist to not “allow” Blacks to play??
 
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LeftyIke

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Look at the Movie : Blackballed, the Story of Pool during Jim Crow. You’ll learn about Javanly Washington, Strawberry Brooks, Cicero Murphy, Bugs Rucker, and Canonball Chapman. You need to read up on Pool’s history.
 
ShortBusRuss

ShortBusRuss

Short Bus Russ - C Player
Silver Member
LeftyIke said:
Look at the Movie : Blackballed, the Story of Pool during Jim Crow. You’ll learn about Javanly Washington, Strawberry Brooks, Cicero Murphy, Bugs Rucker, and Canonball Chapman. You need to read up on Pool’s history.
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And, since you absolutely refuse to actually quote ANYTHING that Mosconi actually said, am I to assume that in this mini-documentary, one of the black players in question actually communicates a story about an encounter with a racist Willie Mosconi?

Or are you just pulling tangentially-related material out of the woodwork to support your VERY THIN assertion that Mosconi was a racist?

And, as for your other post, you seem to be intentionally dense on this matter, as I explained perfectly clearly that there wasn't much money in pool for Mosconi, and getting up on a soapbox about letting black players play would have been the surest way to have himself dropped from exhibition in ALL southern pool halls.

Now, I want to be CLEAR on this question I am about to ask you.......

Are you saying that you expected Mosconi to make a fuss over allowing black players to play, when his family would likely have been very much so negatively affected by the severe drop in his income that would have caused? Is that what you are saying?

That you expected him to raise a fuss, and just ACCEPT that all the southern pool halls would have dropped him from their exhibition schedule? And then, when he and his family were hungry and having trouble with the rent, they were supposed to have their bellies filled by the self assurance that they were "doing the right thing"?

You seem very much to be one of these liberal loons who concentrates so much on APPEARANCES, that you have no common sense for living your life.
 
easy-e

easy-e

AzB Gold Member
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How does almost every thread in the Main Forum take a political turn?
 
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LeftyIke

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Leaders lead. Jackie Robinson’s White teammates didn’t stand idly by, and let him be called Nigger, and threatened by the opposing team and the fans. Should Mosconi have said, “ I voted to block the Black Guy from playing, but I was able to buy us groceries, Dear”? Mosconi was well-paid, and was the Premiere Spokesperson and Exhibition and Traveling Champion for Brunswick. When President Johnson passed the Civil Rights Bill, did Pool die in the South, you Loon, as you call me? I believe you are racist, you do a lot of personal name-calling, and try to make demands of strangers that you don’t know. Do you normally call people names, when they disagree with you? Are you personally offended that America is justifiably called racist, as exhibited by Trump, and has that History? You Loon, fair-minded Whites and Jews walked side-by-side with Dr. King, and laid down on the Freeway to protest Hate and Police brutality, last year. Were they making it up? America has a history of Slavery and Bigotry going back to 1619, in Virginia. That’s a fact. Learn to read.
 
pwd72s

pwd72s

recreational banger
Silver Member
easy-e said:
How does almost every thread in the Main Forum take a political turn?
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Because trolls like lefty are able to get responses. Ignore them, they go away.

Hell, for I know he could be a bot. But why bother going through the work to check it out?
 
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