triangle

Dan Harriman

One of the best in 14.1
Silver Member
i learned when competing it might be a good idea to not use any other triangle than the one used to draw or trace the rack line while racking. Reason being - if you allow your opponent to use a larger triangle (than the one used to trace the rack line) they can manipulate racking either high or low - depending on the breakshot. This is a moove' that is overlooked sometimes I think.
 

DynoDan

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I had always assumed the pencil line was merely a guide, not an official designation? If your opponent is racking, and wants to claim your breakball interferes, I don’t see any recourse for you, regardless of what triangle is being used (aside from selecting a breakball further from the rack in future, or maybe changing opponents)?
 

Island Drive

Otto/Dads College Roommate/Cleveland Browns
Silver Member
In 14.1 pro events yes a perimeter line is a must because of the break shot, but not in rotation pool.
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
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I had always assumed the pencil line was merely a guide, not an official designation? If your opponent is racking, and wants to claim your breakball interferes, I don’t see any recourse for you, regardless of what triangle is being used (aside from selecting a breakball further from the rack in future, or maybe changing opponents)?
The line says whether a ball is in/out of the triangle. It is possible to get a third party to judge that if your opponent has an opinion different from yours.

It is possible for a ball to be outside the triangle but still interfere with racking. In that case the break ball should be marked, removed, and replaced after the balls are racked.
 

Island Drive

Otto/Dads College Roommate/Cleveland Browns
Silver Member
The line says whether a ball is in/out of the triangle. It is possible to get a third party to judge that if your opponent has an opinion different from yours.

It is possible for a ball to be outside the triangle but still interfere with racking. In that case the break ball should be marked, removed, and replaced after the balls are racked.



Bob that makes allot of sense, tho I've never seen that implemented in match play during the Mizerak years, Janscos and the collegiate level.

What you said, can that be found in a rule book some where?
 

Dan Harriman

One of the best in 14.1
Silver Member
Hard as a diamond

the Diamond table is a superb choice to practice or play on, the rack is thicker than average triangle and will cost the player space when using it for a straight pool. Everything I post is me posting' from actually livin' it. I would not suggest allowing opponent to use a different triangle than the one originally drawn with pencil or tailor's chalk. Good day.
 
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ChrisinNC

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
the Diamond table is a superb choice to practice or play on, the rack is thicker than average triangle and will cost the player space when using it for a straight pool. Everything I post is me posting' from actually livin' it. I would not suggest allowing opponent to use a different triangle than the one originally drawn with pencil or tailor's chalk. Good day.
Danny, you are correct. The Diamond rack is not ideal to use for 14.1, since it is so thick not only on the sides (3/4") but on all 3 points as well - where it extends 1-1/2" beyond the outside edge of the point balls. A thinner rack like a black beauty would be far preferred. Magic 15-ball racks would be ideal, if it weren't for not being able to get the template off the table after the opening break, as it certainly affects the roll of the balls when it's left in place during play.
 

mikemosconi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
i learned when competing it might be a good idea to not use any other triangle than the one used to draw or trace the rack line while racking. Reason being - if you allow your opponent to use a larger triangle (than the one used to trace the rack line) they can manipulate racking either high or low - depending on the breakshot. This is a moove' that is overlooked sometimes I think.

I do not understand your post- if there are rack lines on the table- THEN the re-racked balls need to lie within the triangle drawn onto the table- it is that simple- if you see any of the balls lying outside the rack lines already drawn on the table- you do not proceed with your breakshot- you just have the balls re-racked properly first.
 

john coloccia

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
from the wpa rules:

The marked outline of the triangle will be used to determine whether an intended break ball is in the rack area.
...
...
A ball is considered to interfere with the rack if it is within or overlaps the outline of the rack.
 

Bob Jewett

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I do not understand your post- if there are rack lines on the table- THEN the re-racked balls need to lie within the triangle drawn onto the table- it is that simple- if you see any of the balls lying outside the rack lines already drawn on the table- you do not proceed with your breakshot- you just have the balls re-racked properly first.
No. That gives too much margin for ball placement. The triangle placement should match the drawn outline as closely as possible.
 

DynoDan

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
In actual 14.1 play, I have NEVER encountered a situation where a breakball was actually removed (position marked) and replaced. Golfers may do it all the time on the putting green, and while the official rules may dictate that procedure, most players (I believe) would rather shoot a breakshot from the headspot than any ball that close to the rack anyway (?). Expedient play usually dictates merely eliminating any breakball that interferes with racking, but, I have never played straight pool where the only available triangle was the oversized Diamond model, so the time may come yet where moving/replacing the ball is the only option.
 
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Bob Jewett

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In actual 14.1 play, I have NEVER encountered a situation where a breakball was actually removed (position marked) and replaced. Golfers may do it all the time on the putting green, and while the official rules may dictate that procedure, most players (I believe) would rather shot a breakshot from the headspot than any ball that close to the rack anyway (?). Expedient play usually dictates merely eliminating any breakball that interferes with racking...
I think it is best to play by the rules.
 

DynoDan

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
It would be interesting to take a poll of all the players at any one time in even the most respected billiard hall, to see how many had actually ever read a rule book.
 

mikemosconi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
No. That gives too much margin for ball placement. The triangle placement should match the drawn outline as closely as possible.

I do not understand your response here, when there is a triangle outline on the table and the break ball and cue ball only are left on the table prior to a break shot , either they each lie on, within, or outside those lines - only possibilities there; and when the other fourteen balls are reracked, they ALL must lie INSIDE the marked triangle - so simple, how could this cause any issues in a match?
 

Bob Jewett

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I do not understand your response here, when there is a triangle outline on the table and the break ball and cue ball only are left on the table prior to a break shot , either they each lie on, within, or outside those lines - only possibilities there; and when the other fourteen balls are reracked, they ALL must lie INSIDE the marked triangle - so simple, how could this cause any issues in a match?
Suppose....

We are playing rack your own. My standard side-of-the-rack break ball is a little low and it looks like I'm barely going to nick the corner of the rack even if I play the shot softly with draw. I move the rack towards the foot rail as far as I can and still leave the back row within the marked outline. With the triangle were using, that happens to be a full inch. I break with stun and smash the balls wide open.

That's the kind of situation I'm talking about and I think it is what Danny was talking about above in the original post.

I think it is blatant cheating to rack like that.
 

DynoDan

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Suppose....

We are playing rack your own. My standard side-of-the-rack break ball is a little low and it looks like I'm barely going to nick the corner of the rack even if I play the shot softly with draw. I move the rack towards the foot rail as far as I can and still leave the back row within the marked outline. With the triangle were using, that happens to be a full inch. I break with stun and smash the balls wide open.

That's the kind of situation I'm talking about and I think it is what Danny was talking about above in the original post.

I think it is blatant cheating to rack like that.

It is always blatant cheating to rack any other way than to....:
‘Place the head ball space directly over the footspot, lower and pull the triangle (3rd side parallel to the footrail) rearward until contacting the front pair while simultaneously forcing the remaining balls forward until all are touching’. That is the position the triangle is required to be in when the pencil line is drawn.
I think some confusion might exist with indelible lines that remain on tables where their original triangles have gone missing, and been replaced with larger models. Thus my earlier comment re: how a pencil line might not always be considered an official demarcation, but rather merely a guide. The VENERABLE rules of the game are very simple, regardless of what model triangle is available:
IF THE BALLS CANNOT BE RACKED IN THE PROSCRIBED MANNER (see above) BY LOWERING THE TRIANGLE STRAIGHT DOWN WITHOUT DISTURBING THE 15TH BALL......THEN IT GOES ON THE HEADSPOT! It either interferes, or it doesn’t (not complicated)! Any arguing, whining, calling over 3rd parties, or marking/moving the breakball, is demonstrating (IMHO) just as silly a form of behavior as those who constantly argue with the referee in ANY sport, thus revealing their LACK of sportsmanship!

So, I guess this would mean that those who play on all-Diamond equipment had better learn to select their behind-the-rack breakshots closer to the footrail!
 
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john coloccia

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
It is always blatant cheating to rack any other way than to....:
‘Place the head ball space directly over the footspot, lower and pull the triangle (3rd side parallel to the footrail) rearward until contacting the front pair while simultaneously forcing the remaining balls forward until all are touching’. That is the position the triangle is required to be in when the pencil line is drawn.
I think some confusion might exist with indelible lines that remain on tables where their original triangles have gone missing, and been replaced with larger models. Thus my earlier comment re: how a pencil line might not always be considered an official demarcation, but rather merely a guide. The VENERABLE rules of the game are very simple, regardless of what model triangle is available:
IF THE BALLS CANNOT BE RACKED IN THE PROSCRIBED MANNER (see above) BY LOWERING THE TRIANGLE STRAIGHT DOWN WITHOUT DISTURBING THE 15TH BALL......THEN IT GOES ON THE HEADSPOT! It either interferes, or it doesn’t (not complicated)! Any arguing, whining, calling over 3rd parties, or marking/moving the breakball, is demonstrating (IMHO) just as silly a form of behavior as those who constantly argue with the referee in ANY sport, thus revealing their LACK of sportsmanship!

So, I guess this would mean that those who play on all-Diamond equipment had better learn to select their behind-the-rack breakshots closer to the footrail!

All of this nonsense goes away if you have an actual ref at important matches. But whatever... 9 ball on mini tables is all the rage...
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
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...
IF THE BALLS CANNOT BE RACKED IN THE PROSCRIBED MANNER (see above) BY LOWERING THE TRIANGLE STRAIGHT DOWN WITHOUT DISTURBING THE 15TH BALL......THEN IT GOES ON THE HEADSPOT! ...
That's not the rule. You may want to look at what the rules actually say. I believe the rules were never as you have written above.
 
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