Johnny Archer vs. Allison Fisher?

av84fun

Banned
jay helfert said:
See, THIS would be an interesting match! Everyone will get fired up about it, more so than two guys playing.

I'd like to stage a Challenge like this. All I know is that every time Jeanette played a guy, the stands were packed. And she beat a lot of guys she played in big matches over the course of the last ten years. A LOT!

Just check the results of DCC two years ago, and see where Jeanette finished in Banks and One Pocket. HELLO!

TAP TAP...but no, they won't check the statistics and when they DO and see that karen and Alli beat champion men at the IPT they just say "short races, 8 Ball...enough said."

But my questions are:
WTF is the POINT?
Why start a thread like this?
What difference does it make?
 

ribdoner

SATISFACTION GUARANTEED
Silver Member
I'll lay BIG BREAD it doesn't end with them tied up at 69...


on topic: I like Allie's side gettin the big 40
 
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Jaden

"no buds chill"
Silver Member
How did they do overall though???

av84fun said:
TAP TAP...but no, they won't check the statistics and when they DO and see that karen and Alli beat champion men at the IPT they just say "short races, 8 Ball...enough said."

But my questions are:
WTF is the POINT?
Why start a thread like this?
What difference does it make?

I can personally name about ten people I play with all the time that can beat champion men any given match, especially in a tournament format. We're talking about a race to 100 though on tough equipment....

My brother's wife started taking lessons from a top socal player with the goal of beating my brother... As soon as the top player heard that she wanted to be able to beat my brother, he said if you do get that good you might as well join the women's tour because there are only a couple of women that can beat him.... This from someone that you would easily recognize if I were to divulge who it was.... I won't because I respect his privacy, but come on. If it were an issue then Allison, Karen or KElly or Jasmine or any number of the top tier women players would already have a US open title or a WPC title.... To argue this is ridiculous....
 

instroke75

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
av84fun said:
But winner breaks is an irrational rule...has no precedent in ANY major sport and is just an old hustle move that virtually guaranteed a win against a banger gambler REGARDLESS of the weight given.

Regards,
Jim[/QUOTE
just stated it that way because that's how most people gamble
 

ioCross

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
It's not a matter of women players having the ability to play or not.

A race to 100 ten ball vs archer on diamond pros... i think allison getting to 60 games is very improbable.
 

instroke75

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Jaden said:
I can personally name about ten people I play with all the time that can beat champion men any given match, especially in a tournament format. We're talking about a race to 100 though on tough equipment....

My brother's wife started taking lessons from a top socal player with the goal of beating my brother... As soon as the top player heard that she wanted to be able to beat my brother, he said if you do get that good you might as well join the women's tour because there are only a couple of women that can beat him.... This from someone that you would easily recognize if I were to divulge who it was.... I won't because I respect his privacy, but come on. If it were an issue then Allison, Karen or KElly or Jasmine or any number of the top tier women players would already have a US open title or a WPC title.... To argue this is ridiculous....
what he said about joining the tour is probably true, there are plenty of local male shortstops who would love to be able to play on the WPBA tour!(easier competition), and if the man's wife could play that speed, she should join the tour.
 

klockdoc

ughhhhhhhhhh
Silver Member
Do you really thing Allison or Karen wouldn't have a chance?

Johnnyt said:
I still say if anyone could make one of these matches happen and a player like Johnny A. would give 40 games on the wire with alt break, pool fans would pay to see it on streaming. If they did it 3 or 4 times a year with different women players I think a lot of MEN would be surprised of the out come. Every time one of these threads comes up 50% just get as far as men Vs women, and don't look at what the game is. 4 1/4" pockets are not going to bother A. Fisher, K Corr, or K Fisher anymore than they are going to bother Johnny A. IMO. Johnnyt

PS. If one of the above matches goes off and the weight is anything like mentioned above, my window will be open and I believe I will make one of the biggest scores I ever made in pool.

Realistically, you are saying that Allison or Karen wouldn't have a chance when they only have to win 2 out of 5 games when getting 40 on the wire?:confused:

I think either one of them have that ability. For Johnny to get to 100, (only winning 3 games out of 5) he would have to play 167 games. Alison or Karen would win after 150. (150/5=30 * 2 = 60 + 40 game spot = 100)

I just think that would be a tough game for Johnny or anyone. JMO

PS: (I do not think that tight pockets would affect Allison being from a snooker background)
 

crawfish

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
john schmidt said:
i played a guy named chewtobacco at his house in north carolina. i gave him the 8 six ahead for 200.after about 10 hours i was 4 sets winner, it was kind of tough.anyway he told me he gambled with allison and beat her and she refused to play anymore.i dont know if thats true.but hopkins told me he gives karen the 7 on her home table and its a war .he is past his prime though.he will be the first to admit that.ill tell you what i think karen and allison play great so heres what ill do. because i break harder i would not want that to be an advantage.ill play either of them or both the ten ball ghost and anything that goes on the break spots up.that way you have to break soft.we could both break 100 times and see who gets the highest total.the highest possible score being 1000.i think they could give me a serious run for my money but i would be willing to bet high.
I know Chewtobacca aka Derek Leonard and he does play very well. On a given day, he can knock any of them off. I definitely believe he beat Allison.
 

Jaden

"no buds chill"
Silver Member
I agree that a 40 game spot would make it interesting....

klockdoc said:
Realistically, you are saying that Allison or Karen wouldn't have a chance when they only have to win 2 out of 5 games when getting 40 on the wire?:confused:

I think either one of them have that ability. For Johnny to get to 100, (only winning 3 games out of 5) he would have to play 167 games. Alison or Karen would win after 150. (150/5=30 * 2 = 60 + 40 game spot = 100)

I just think that would be a tough game for Johnny or anyone. JMO

PS: (I do not think that tight pockets would affect Allison being from a snooker background)


I'm not saying that the girls can't play or that it wouldn't be an interesting match, what I am saying is that the people who are trying to claim that allison or any other top female pro wouldn't need any spot playing Johnny, SVB, or even Earl in a long match is smoking crack...
 

crawfish

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
jay helfert said:
I resemble these remarks. :D

If Johnny wants to give Allison 40 games on the wire going to a 100, let's hook it up, and we'll see who's working at the puzzle factory next.

Nothing against J.A., but if they play alternate break like in most tourneys today, Johnny wouldn't be able to pull away. She could hang, to use your words. Now go back and hit some more balls. You've got a big match in a few days.
WINNER BREAKS, that's why I said he could out "string" her.
 

chas1022

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Allison is a great player.She has been the best for over ten years now.She is a true champion.Johnny is a great player too.But to say he would walk away with the match, isn't fair to Allison who is a true champion.Allison will do better then most think ,and maybe even win.Karen Corr wins and well its a short race and stuff like that.A win is a win in my book. Some people say the women play on easy equipment.The people that are saying stuff like that couldn't hang with the women on that easy equipment either. They are doing a disservice to the game and the women for remarks like that.If u don't believe that play any of the top women for money and see.
 

av84fun

Banned
Jaden said:
I know that at the san diego classic they were a friggin joke, my brother was a ref there and said they were pathetically loose...

"I don't know for every tourny...for a fact... "

Well, your earlier post suggested that you did. You made a pretty broad statement without actual facts.

And what pocket size constitutes a "friggin joke" and "pathetically loose" in your brother's mind?

I am sincere in these questions. Your post stands for the proposition that women's skill level should be discounted relative the men's because (your argument goes) women play on tables with pockets significantly wider pockets.

OK, fine. Good point...if true. But to make that case, you would have to have the facts.

And as I am sure you know, the distance between the points is not necessarily the one and only measure of pocket difficulty. The other issues include the angle of the facing, shim material and depth of the shelf.

My own Olhausen has 4 7/8 corner pocket width but the shelf is so deep
(2") that an ob can sit a full 1/2 inch back of the points. They rattle and spit out hard shots like you wouldn't believe.

Regards,
Jim
 

instroke75

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
like it or not!

chas1022 said:
Allison is a great player.She has been the best for over ten years now.She is a true champion.Johnny is a great player too.But to say he would walk away with the match, isn't fair to Allison who is a true champion.Allison will do better then most think ,and maybe even win.Karen Corr wins and well its a short race and stuff like that.A win is a win in my book. Some people say the women play on easy equipment.The people that are saying stuff like that couldn't hang with the women on that easy equipment either. They are doing a disservice to the game and the women for remarks like that.If u don't believe that play any of the top women for money and see.
if you like it or not, that's just the truth, of what would happen if they played a race to 100, and if you have not noticed the 6" pockets they play their tv matches on then that's you're problem
 

crawfish

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
chas1022 said:
Allison is a great player.She has been the best for over ten years now.She is a true champion.Johnny is a great player too.But to say he would walk away with the match, isn't fair to Allison who is a true champion.Allison will do better then most think ,and maybe even win.Karen Corr wins and well its a short race and stuff like that.A win is a win in my book. Some people say the women play on easy equipment.The people that are saying stuff like that couldn't hang with the women on that easy equipment either. They are doing a disservice to the game and the women for remarks like that.If u don't believe that play any of the top women for money and see.
I'm gonna really piss some of you off with this one. There are probably a hundred men or more that would send the top women home with winner breaks, and tight pockets and a very long race. Those tv matches are edited not to show mistakes unless they are crucial. I have seen Sparky Ferrell offer Allison weight, and he's not Johnny.
 

Jaden

"no buds chill"
Silver Member
really.....

chas1022 said:
Allison is a great player.She has been the best for over ten years now.She is a true champion.Johnny is a great player too.But to say he would walk away with the match, isn't fair to Allison who is a true champion.Allison will do better then most think ,and maybe even win.Karen Corr wins and well its a short race and stuff like that.A win is a win in my book. Some people say the women play on easy equipment.The people that are saying stuff like that couldn't hang with the women on that easy equipment either. They are doing a disservice to the game and the women for remarks like that.If u don't believe that play any of the top women for money and see.

I'm going to just leave this one alone......I've typed other stuff here that I just erased because I don't want to turn this into a pissing contest. It's just funny that some people like to talk without knowing other peoples games.....lol...
 

instroke75

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Very True!!!!!!!!

crawfish said:
I'm gonna really piss some of you off with this one. There are probably a hundred men or more that would send the top women home with winner breaks, and tight pockets and a very long race. Those tv matches are edited not to show mistakes unless they are crucial. I have seen Sparky Ferrell offer Allison weight, and he's not Johnny.
i vote on the more side of that statement! there are alot of those speed guys, who would love to play the top woman!
 

Jaden

"no buds chill"
Silver Member
actually if you've followed some of my posts you would see...

av84fun said:
"I don't know for every tourny...for a fact... "

Well, your earlier post suggested that you did. You made a pretty broad statement without actual facts.

And what pocket size constitutes a "friggin joke" and "pathetically loose" in your brother's mind?

I am sincere in these questions. Your post stands for the proposition that women's skill level should be discounted relative the men's because (your argument goes) women play on tables with pockets significantly wider pockets.

OK, fine. Good point...if true. But to make that case, you would have to have the facts.

And as I am sure you know, the distance between the points is not necessarily the one and only measure of pocket difficulty. The other issues include the angle of the facing, shim material and depth of the shelf.

My own Olhausen has 4 7/8 corner pocket width but the shelf is so deep
(2") that an ob can sit a full 1/2 inch back of the points. They rattle and spit out hard shots like you wouldn't believe.

Regards,
Jim

actually if you've followed some of my posts you would see that I make the argument that when the margin of width differential isn't offset by the angle of the facing a looser pocket can be easier to rattle a ball on than a tighter one, at the same time though there is too big a difference between 4.25" pockets and 5" pockets...

My brother stated that they were about 5" pockets at the tourny and he saw the women missing a lot of shots.. This is not meant to degrade the women and their game. They play excellent pool that most people should aspire to be able to play, but they just aren't at the same level as the top men....
 

av84fun

Banned
instroke75 said:
av84fun said:
But winner breaks is an irrational rule...has no precedent in ANY major sport and is just an old hustle move that virtually guaranteed a win against a banger gambler REGARDLESS of the weight given.

Regards,
Jim[/QUOTE
just stated it that way because that's how most people gamble

Right. I gotcha. It's just that the reason for that is that the lesser player...the one getting the weight...doesn't understand the dynamic involved.

I don't know this for a fact so I won't mention any names but I have been told by credible people that one well known pro used to give ANY LEGAL SHOT after the break as weight in ahead sets!

Of course, the hustle is that WHEN the banger breaks dry the pro is likely to put 5 or 6 games on the wire. And what about when the banger makes a ball on the break but has no shot and has to push. The pro is then an 80% favorite to win the rack and regain the break.

I wasn't "taking you on" in my response to you..just pointing out that winner breaks has no place in realistic sports competitions.

Regards,
Jim
 
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