Creating a Low Deflection Shaft

BarTableMan said:

Does a shaft become low deflection by simply lowing the weight/density of the end of the shaft? Could a fiberglass shaft be drilled out, filled with high density foam become low deflection? Does the carbon fiber create low deflection or is it just a strong "hollowable" substance?

Thanks tech guys!

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Search "low deflection shaft". This has been covered a LOT here. Reduced tip end mass is how to reduce deflection. Dr. Dave has some good stuff on this. Lighter materials, hollowing(usually done on wood shafts), reduced shaft diameter are some of the ways to make a LD shaft.

BarTableMan said:

Does the carbon fiber create low deflection or is it just a strong "hollowable" substance?

Thanks tech guys!

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Yes exactly, strong and hollowable, that's it. Carbon fiber is cheap too so it works great.

Anyone have the link with the profiles and xrays handy (it should be stickied, it's really helpful as demonstration)?

It could be possible to use a material without hollowing out the tip end and achieve/surpass carbon fiber tubing as long as the mass is lower and the tensile strength is >= carbon fiber. I have no idea of such a substance, but it would probably be extravagantly expensive.

You can hollow out the front (tip) end of the shaft
OR
You can make the tip diameter smaller.

A 11mm tip with a normal taper will be as low deflection as a 12.5mm tip with the center drilled out and a normal taper.

MitchAlsup said:

A 11mm tip with a normal taper will be as low deflection as a 12.5mm tip with the center drilled out and a normal taper.

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That would mean the 12.5 tip has only a ~3mm hole. You should be able to get at least a 5mm hole.

MitchAlsup said:

You can hollow out the front (tip) end of the shaft
OR
You can make the tip diameter smaller.

A 11mm tip with a normal taper will be as low deflection as a 12.5mm tip with the center drilled out and a normal taper.

Click to expand...

Cron said:

That would mean the 12.5 tip has only a ~3mm hole. You should be able to get at least a 5mm hole.

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Check my math, but to make the cross section area of a 12.5mm tip the same as an 11mm one, I think would take a hole almost 6mm in diameter.



pj
chgo

P.S. The "Difference" is in square millimeters too (not cubic millimeters).

Cron said:

That would mean the 12.5 tip has only a ~3mm hole. You should be able to get at least a 5mm hole.

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12.5 - 11 = 1.5

12.5*12.5 = 156.25 (ignoring the ×Pi)
11.0*11.0 = 121
............... = 35.25

SQRT(35.25) = 5.93

So you would have to take 6mm drill out of the center of the 12.5 shaft to remove as much mass as taking 1.5mm from the outside diameter.

MitchAlsup said:

So you would have to take 6mm drill out of the center of the 12.5 shaft to remove as much mass as taking 1.5mm from the outside diameter.

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Yup. If you roll that 1.5mm of outer shell up into a tight tube it'll just fit into a 6mm hole.

pj
chgo

Speaking of which, is there such a thing as carbon fiber foam? That might be a way of combining strength and lightness...?

pj
chgo

Sorry, for some reason I used the cubed root.

tin foil

Patrick Johnson said:

Speaking of which, is there such a thing as carbon fiber foam? That might be a way of combining strength and lightness...?

pj
chgo

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The last I knew the mega dollar offshore racing boats stiffened the hulls with a honeycomb aluminum foil. Very stiff when turned with the openings towards the inner and outer hull and then filled or sandwiched. Something similar might work. Anyone doing their own lay up might look into microspheres from PPG too. Readily available last I knew, they are added to some resins, epoxies, and fillers to make them lighter while reducing strength very little I believe.

First thing to research is where the weight comes from. Is the dried resin or epoxy where the weight comes from or is it the carbon fiber? What percentage of weight does each compose? Many years ago when I needed lightweight high strength materials they were available, sold by the gram or ounce. The raw material would have blown through the budget for the entire project! Some was classified and couldn't be bought at any price.

Hu

You can hollow out the front (tip) end of the shaft
OR
You can make the tip diameter smaller.

A 11mm tip with a normal taper will be as low deflection as a 12.5mm tip with the center drilled out and a normal taper.

Click to expand...

I've commented in the past that it often struck me that the old guys that liked 11 mm shafts were probably enjoying the benefits of low(er) deflection as much as the more accurate tip placement for shooting.

However, a drilled 12.5mm is stiffer than a 11 mm shaft for the same end mass. & some of us prefer the larger sweet spot of a larger tip.

The shafts I've drilled are 12.75mm, 9/32" hole (7.14mm)

smt

If you have a fiberglass shaft and you want low deflection, make that your break shaft.

played with one

Ssonerai said:

I've commented in the past that it often struck me that the old guys that liked 11 mm shafts were probably enjoying the benefits of low(er) deflection as much as the more accurate tip placement for shooting.

However, a drilled 12.5mm is stiffer than a 11 mm shaft for the same end mass. & some of us prefer the larger sweet spot of a larger tip.

The shafts I've drilled are 12.75mm, 9/32" hole (7.14mm)

smt

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Now you have done it! Guess I am an old guy. I played with a twelve ounce snooker cue with an 11mm tip best I recall, somewhere in that neighborhood or smaller. Had an early dud on it and between the Brunswick cue I believe it was and the dud installed I was out twenty-two dollars. First time I fired a table length shot with a lot of juice on the cue ball I missed about two inches! The object ball that is, wasn't even close enough to say I whiffed by, it never felt the breeze. A few more shots like that and I knew I had to make serious adjustments.

I wish I still had one of those cues to try against a very low deflection shaft. I believe it would run with or beat any shaft available today. It was very low deflection long before I ever heard the term. It was in an old station wagon I owned when I was down for over a year due to injury. I figured what the heck, when I wanted another I would just spend another twenty bucks. Nope, no longer available and my original had warped like a shillelagh!

After helping me search for about a year Cuebuddy was kind enough to give me one from his collection so I could match size and taper when we never found another. It is in rough shape, never be playable, but that wasn't the intent. That gift is much appreciated, still need to measure and copy it.

Hu

Ssonerai said:

...some of us prefer the larger sweet spot of a larger tip.

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If you mean the size of the tip/CB contact area, that's not determined by tip size - only by hardness and curvature (and hardly matters even then).

pj
chgo

BarTableMan said:

Does a shaft become low deflection by simply lowing the weight/density of the end of the shaft?

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Yes.

BarTableMan said:

Could a fiberglass shaft be drilled out, filled with high density foam become low deflection?

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A fiberglass shaft could be LD already. Drilling it out would make it more LD.

BarTableMan said:

Does the carbon fiber create low deflection or is it just a strong "hollowable" substance?

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A hollow (or foam-filled) CF shaft is strong but light. The light makes it LD.

For more info, see:

shaft endmass and stiffness effects

LD shafts

carbon fiber shafts

Enjoy,
Dave

If you mean the size of the tip/CB contact area, that's not determined by tip size - only by hardness and curvature (and hardly matters even then).

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Some of us learned to shoot during the dark ages, or at least in backwards areas where there was little info except watch and learn, perhaps paying along the way. I never attained a high level of play. My glory days during the 70's, 80's rose as high as "serious bar banger". Could often hold a 7ft Fisher all night, sometimes put together 3 packs, probably at most.

Whether it was shooting mostly off the wall or just poor information, i still gravitate to a flat tip. Oh, I'll put a dime on it when making a new shaft or re-tipping one of mine. Then find that i get more comfortable as it flattens out. Prefer hard milk duds.

IOW, there is a larger sweet spot & it can be helpful, at least at the level of play & eyesight of his old duffer. Perhaps oddly, though, i don't like tips wider than about 12.75mm.

smt, still interested in learning, though.

Ssonerai said:

i still gravitate to a flat tip.

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A flat tip can be a little more forgiving on centerball hits, but not much.

In other words, the variable is probably your stroke, not your tip. That's good news - your stroke can be improved.

pj
chgo

That's good news - your stroke can be improved.

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I've always been an optimist.



smt