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11-09-2019, 06:35 PM

777. I thought that was the number of cigarettes he smokes a week.
  
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11-09-2019, 06:52 PM

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Originally Posted by deanoc View Post
I don't profess to keep up with all this,but in my opinion Nick Varner is the greatest player of all time.
Is 777 a real high score? What is Efren? Alex? Tony?

I understand when Efren was in his young prime that Nick went to the Philipines and beat Efren on his own turf.

Whether or not he still plays much or how age is treating him I have no idea.

But if someone offered him a couple of balls at one pocket I would become involved.
Here is the list of top USA only players, for comparison to Nick's Fargo. Nick's 777 would put him at #7, ahead of a bunch of well known and currently active pros.

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11-09-2019, 06:55 PM

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Originally Posted by DecentShot View Post
A starter rating given by somone who REALLY respects him? Or he is that good.
Robust 706 so that's plenty of info for a accurate rating


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11-09-2019, 07:03 PM

does nick have a 777 or not

is the fargo thing for 9 ball,one pocket,or what
i am unfamiliar with the whole thing

josh roberts is rated higher than tony chohan

as is jj

yet i thought tony beat them both

i honetly don't know how it works
  
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11-09-2019, 07:17 PM

Pretty sure that if FargoRate had existed for all of Nicky’s career, he would’ve been in the 800s for three decades.
He won his last world 9-ball title while he was playing on the Mizerak Senior Tour.
...just saw him last week in Norfolk....he looks fit for 71 years old....
...he’d be missing his break speed....but tough at one-hole.


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11-09-2019, 07:56 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BasementDweller View Post
Stop right there iutbr before you cause anymore FargoRate trouble.

Several years back (around 5) I watched Varner play quite a bit on the bar table and his game was just about perfectly suited for the BB with his tight position, banking, and crafty shooting -- like playing rail first shots. I wouldn't doubt he could play close to that speed on a bar table just a few years back but there's NO WAY he could play anywhere near that speed on a 9 footer then and definitely not now.

I know.. I know... all games and all tables are the same they say.
Despite the claims that FargoRate is equal on the barbox and big box I think there are situations where that just isn't so. This is one of them.

I think Nick on the bar table is an absolute beast. I watched him in that stream and he played flawlessly.

Would I back him against Oscar (similar fargo) on bar table or any table? No.

But if he just showed up at an open bar table 8-ball event like the Texas State or Wyoming Open I wouldn't expect him to do much better or worse than Oscar with roughly the same chance to win. Although I would give the edge to Oscar due to age and stamina. He has the pocketing skills to make everything and the knowledge and craftiness to out move everyone too.

BAR TABLE ONLY.

Big table and he drops way, way down the list IMO because I think that the bigger tables combined with tighter pockets would not play to his strengths. The younger playerss have superior pocketing skills and I just don't think he could keep up with them on 9' tables.

The thing to remember is that Fargo Rate is only a measure of how likely a player is to beat another play in one game/match. Not how likely they would be to win a tournament - although you can get there using statistics.

It specifically doesn't mean that a player with a given FR should make balls at a certain level or be able to play safe at a certain level. It measures how good they are at winning.

You can have a 700 player that can't make balls but somehow gets the job done and a 700 player that makes everything they shoot at but never plays safe so loses games that way. Even though they have different strengths they can have the same rating.

A player like Varner does so many things so well that even if he has slowed down in some ways he can still win his share of games.

And he IS Nick Varner which will tend to pucker anybody's behind when they find out they have to play him so he could win more matches just because of that intangible.


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11-09-2019, 08:09 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by pt109 View Post
Pretty sure that if FargoRate had existed for all of Nicky’s career, he would’ve been in the 800s for three decades.
He won his last world 9-ball title while he was playing on the Mizerak Senior Tour.
...just saw him last week in Norfolk....he looks fit for 71 years old....
...he’d be missing his break speed....but tough at one-hole.
I'd figure from the modern era Varner, Sigel, Hall, and Strickland would have all been in the 800-825 range. Edit, Archer too. I don't think any other USA player would have been over 800. Thoughts?
  
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11-09-2019, 08:13 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by deanoc View Post
does nick have a 777 or not

is the fargo thing for 9 ball,one pocket,or what
i am unfamiliar with the whole thing

josh roberts is rated higher than tony chohan

as is jj

yet i thought tony beat them both

i honetly don't know how it works
Its been out for about 5 years now, and was invented by our fellow forum member Mike Page. When it. came out, he said it only recorded 8, 9, and 10 ball matches. However, I "think" that has changed after the first few years, and now it also records one pocket, back pocket 9 ball, and maybe even bank pool matches.
  
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11-09-2019, 08:15 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by pt109 View Post
Pretty sure that if FargoRate had existed for all of Nicky’s career, he would’ve been in the 800s for three decades.
He won his last world 9-ball title while he was playing on the Mizerak Senior Tour.
...just saw him last week in Norfolk....he looks fit for 71 years old....
...he’d be missing his break speed....but tough at one-hole.
Right on PT. I see Nick once a year in Chicago, and he still shoots sporty. I don't know if it's 777 or not but damn, I never see him miss He's still pretty active, and in good shape, I think the worse thing that he told me were his eyes just are not what they were in the good old days. Well, completely understandable at 71. But, if he moves to a bar box 8 ball tourney, look out

He still shoots in the Durbin Cup every year in Southern Illinois, and I know he hates to lose at anything, so I'm sure he gets in "game shape" before that one, lots of pride on the line for that


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11-09-2019, 08:19 PM

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Originally Posted by iusedtoberich View Post
I'd figure from the modern era Varner, Sigel, Hall, and Strickland would have all been in the 800-825 range. Edit, Archer too. I don't think any other USA player would have been over 800. Thoughts?
Rempe...........


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11-09-2019, 08:21 PM

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Originally Posted by pt109 View Post
Rempe...........
You think so? My buddies from Philly from his age group, said he was only a tourney player, and players like Jimmy Fusco would have beaten him for the cash.

Oh, I guess Hopkins would have been an 800 level or above also.
  
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11-09-2019, 08:29 PM

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Originally Posted by iusedtoberich View Post
If so, that would be awesome. Does anyone know his age?

One other thing of note for the high FargoRate, is Varner is not listed on the top 100 US players, even though his rating would put him at #7 in the US. This means he did not play the minimum number of games in the past year or two to be on that list. I believe Mike has said it was 150 games over the past 2 years, but that number is from memory.
Nick is 70....


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11-09-2019, 08:37 PM

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Originally Posted by Island Drive View Post
Nick is 70....
May 15, 1948....71 years old
...and I just asked him last week


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11-09-2019, 08:45 PM

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Originally Posted by iusedtoberich View Post
You think so? My buddies from Philly from his age group, said he was only a tourney player, and players like Jimmy Fusco would have beaten him for the cash.

Oh, I guess Hopkins would have been an 800 level or above also.
Maybe if the game was One Pocket. No way Jimmy Fusco was ever in Jim Rempe's zip code at rotation games, or straight pool. And he gambled plenty. I think I'd trust Jay Helfert's assessment of this over some random dude from Jimmy Fusco's back yard. Let's ask him.
  
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11-09-2019, 08:58 PM

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Originally Posted by iusedtoberich View Post
I'd figure from the modern era Varner, Sigel, Hall, and Strickland would have all been in the 800-825 range. Edit, Archer too. I don't think any other USA player would have been over 800. Thoughts?
The numbers are all relative and don’t carry any inherent meaning, so I don’t think you can say what a player from a different era would have been. They’re not as good as the best players of today, IMO (which is true in probably all sports and games like this), but their ratings could have been higher or lower if calculated at the time, as far as I understand it.

By the way, as long as match scores are recorded - and obviously many are - it would be possible to figure out the Fargo ratings of players from back then, relative to each other. I wonder if Mike Page has ever tried something like that. I bet you could find a couple dozen tournaments with match scores from, say, the 1980s, and have enough to get good ratings on all the top players.

Last edited by BRussell; 11-09-2019 at 09:00 PM.
  
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