Components Necessary to Become a Pro Level Pool Player?

logical

Loose Rack
Silver Member
On the other hand, I can think of 999 things to become really good at that will be much more lucrative.

Sent from the future.
 

Bob Jewett

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Hey Bob, what about spatial perception? Aren't some people's brains just, for lack of a better term, "wired better" for the game? Some people just don't compute the 3D part of playing pool/billiards as well as others.
I think that's true. It could be argued that it just takes more dedication/fire/spirit to overcome not being able to do that as well, but I think it will make a difference between two players who are different in that regard.
 

Bob Jewett

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... Likewise, having a 5% advantage in hand-eye coordination could mean 6 months less time mastering a particular shot, which leads to 6 months more time spent on something else, and so on. It’s compounding.
One of the chapters in "The Sports Gene" is about baseball. It turns out that many (most?) of the top hitters have visual acuity not around 20/20 like normal people but down around 20/10. I think a few go down to 20/8. This comes from having a higher density of receptor cells in the retina. That's hard to train for.
 

RichSchultz

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Yup. I referred to him obliquely above. A 10,000-hour believer.

I had a student (briefly) who was a 10,000-hour guy. He had taken lessons regularly from a local pro, had his own table, and had a well-known instructor come in for three days of training. He wanted me to set out a training program for him to follow, possibly with regular email/phone contact, for his 10,000 hour attempt. He seemed extremely motivated.

We met at a pool hall when I was on a trip to his area. I asked him to shoot some shots for me so I could see where he was at the start. It turned out that he had never learned any kind of cue ball control. Like simple draw shots. I'm not sure what the other instructors worked on with him. But what is puzzling is how he could have watched good players and not realized how far he was below them and all the things they did that he had no clue about how to do.

I suppose I could have told him that his burning flame would make him a champion. And taken his money for phone and email consultation. At the age of about 40 he was at the level of play I had reached when I was 16 and had been playing casually for four months on a friend's fold-up Sears table.

Instead he saw how much he would have to learn, realized that his previous instructors had been milking him, and abandoned his plan to be a champion.
That’s kinda heartbreaking.
 

PRED

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
One of the chapters in "The Sports Gene" is about baseball. It turns out that many (most?) of the top hitters have visual acuity not around 20/20 like normal people but down around 20/10. I think a few go down to 20/8. This comes from having a higher density of receptor cells in the retina. That's hard to train for.

Same with fast twitch muscles in Golf
 

Bob Jewett

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Splitting hairs is very much a talent. ...
It helps to have the right equipment, though, and sufficient avoirdupois:

CropperCapture[422].jpg
 

deanoc

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
splitting hairs

just when i begin to think az is no longer fun

up comes something like this
Aplus

quick wit
how did you come up with this?

PT 109 has the gift for these too

I applaud this

hip,hip
 

PoolBum

Ace in the side.
Silver Member
One of the chapters in "The Sports Gene" is about baseball. It turns out that many (most?) of the top hitters have visual acuity not around 20/20 like normal people but down around 20/10. I think a few go down to 20/8. This comes from having a higher density of receptor cells in the retina. That's hard to train for.

Ted Williams' visual acuity was 20/10.
 

megatron69

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'd like to comment to your points specifically one by one.

1) Not needed talent/gift is a scam, hoax, call it what you want, it doesn't exist.

2) Not needed, if you walk into people who tell you that you must stand in a specific way, or hold the cue in a specific way, like the snooker school, trust me these people don't know what they're talking about, you can see so many different types of strokes, different postures, different ways to stand, and they all work, all you need is to play a gazillion of billion strokes with the same shot, and you'll get be good with whatever stroke/stand/posture/bridge/fundamental that you've attained.

3) Needed, as a matter of fact, a must, if you want to be a top pro, practice 10hr to 12hr a day, if you do this and next year you're not at pro speed ill give you a million bucks.

4) This is the same as point (6) on this list, which is observing, and it is required.

5) Not needed, just do the point (3) on this list, then join major tournys.

6) Same as point (4) also required, watch pro's playing as much as you can.

7) Required, all of the greats hated to lose, they don't just hate it, they despise losing, this is what you need to become a world champion.

8) This will happen automatically if you do the point (3) on this list, play 12 hrs a day.

9) I don't know about that one, all you need is to practice, alot! travel has nothing to do with anything.

One thing you forgot to add, so I'll add a point (10) for you.

(10) Luck!, you absolutely need the luck to win tournaments, doesn't matter if you run out from anywhere, if your break doesn't work, and it works for your opponent, he'll beat you, so in the end, to win major tournys, even though you can play, you do need the rolls to be on your side to win it.

That's it, thank you.

Most of the above is just wrong. My initial thought is that it was sarcastic. Either way, don't take the above seriously.

I'd like to add one more 'rule.'

The ability to self-evaluate precisely. Without it you'll never amount to anything. And it's amazing how many people just don't have this ability.

But if you can't look at your performances and criticize/analyze them without emotion you'll never be able to get the most out of your abilities, or effectively minimize your weaknesses. It is this ability to analyze and evaluate every part of you game, from your pre-shot routine, to your mechanics, to your table strategy, shot execution, and so on that separates the men from the boys, so to speak.
 

howlieboy9

Registered
I have to chime in on this one

I wanted to chime in on this...I started playing pool casually in 2012. Thought it was cool and started learning. Played a couple times a week or when I was drinking at the bar. No league or anything just thought it was a fun hobby.

Flash forward to October 2017 I decided I wanted to see how good I could really get...I actually had a FargoRate of around 430 at that time from entering a couple local tournaments. Not a big robustness but i would say a very fair assessment of my ability.

I worked hard. Practiced basically everyday. Drills. Drills. Drills. Hours upon hours of hard work and super frustrating and sometimes devastating moments. I almost quit 3 times. I just couldn’t though. I got obsessed. I am still, to this day, working extremely hard on my game.

I won a tournament tonight. Went undefeated. About half the matches were against players over 600 FargoRate. A couple were over 650 and one was over 700. This tournament unfortunately was not FargoRated.

I am 620 Fargo now. When I play in my next FargoRated tournament, it will go up again. It is silly and probably stupid to admit on here but I do aspire to be a professional player. I actually am pretty confident that i’m going to do it too based on far I’ve come in 2.5 years. It’s a slow and grueling process though.

I can tell you all and any other people lurking that are curious...it is possible to MASSIVELY grow your game out of nowhere. For the first 5 years of me playing I probably only improved 50 Fargo points. Then a growth of 200 points improvement in less than 2.5 years. I am a rare case for sure...but it’s not because I have a natural talent. I put in A LOT of work. The vast majority of people won’t sacrifice what it takes. This kind of growth takes more than you can imagine...I don’t know anyone who has worked on their game as hard as me in the last couple years. I am not saying that statement to toot my own horn, I am saying it because it’s the truth. It has been hell. It has been pain and heartbreak and I have let myself down more times than I can count. But I persist. I keep working on my weaknesses and filling the gaps.

Which brings me to the OP’s original question...in my opinion, it only takes hard work. That’s it. The game has no physical demands so it is purely judgement and muscle memory. On most shots I don’t even aim. I just feel.

It’s muscle memory. Which can be developed by anyone who practices (not plays) consistently. So if you have the obsession and burning desire to drive yourself nuts and put in the hard work required...you can be a great pool player. I believe that. I believe that because I have lived it.
 

hotelyorba

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I read every post in this thread and while I agree with a lot of them, I'm amazed no one mentioned the mental side of the game.

I strongly believe you can train as long as you want, do all the drills right and work 10,000 hours on all your technical weak spots - if you have a natural tendency to doubt yourself (even a little) or be discouraged when bad luck strikes or maybe have a tendency to dwell on your mistakes then it can be like all your hard work was for nothing and no natural ability or hand/eye coordination talent will save you.
 

hotelyorba

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Most of the above is just wrong. My initial thought is that it was sarcastic. Either way, don't take the above seriously.

I'd like to add one more 'rule.'

The ability to self-evaluate precisely. Without it you'll never amount to anything. And it's amazing how many people just don't have this ability.

But if you can't look at your performances and criticize/analyze them without emotion you'll never be able to get the most out of your abilities, or effectively minimize your weaknesses. It is this ability to analyze and evaluate every part of you game, from your pre-shot routine, to your mechanics, to your table strategy, shot execution, and so on that separates the men from the boys, so to speak.
So, so very true. I know my game improved greatly once I started viewing everything that happened on the table as 'just collecting data'. You have to be able to see all ball movement as if it's happening to someone else.
 

evergruven

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I wanted to chime in on this...I started playing pool casually in 2012. Thought it was cool and started learning. Played a couple times a week or when I was drinking at the bar. No league or anything just thought it was a fun hobby.

Flash forward to October 2017 I decided I wanted to see how good I could really get...I actually had a FargoRate of around 430 at that time from entering a couple local tournaments. Not a big robustness but i would say a very fair assessment of my ability.

I worked hard. Practiced basically everyday. Drills. Drills. Drills. Hours upon hours of hard work and super frustrating and sometimes devastating moments. I almost quit 3 times. I just couldn’t though. I got obsessed. I am still, to this day, working extremely hard on my game.

I won a tournament tonight. Went undefeated. About half the matches were against players over 600 FargoRate. A couple were over 650 and one was over 700. This tournament unfortunately was not FargoRated.

I am 620 Fargo now. When I play in my next FargoRated tournament, it will go up again. It is silly and probably stupid to admit on here but I do aspire to be a professional player. I actually am pretty confident that i’m going to do it too based on far I’ve come in 2.5 years. It’s a slow and grueling process though.

I can tell you all and any other people lurking that are curious...it is possible to MASSIVELY grow your game out of nowhere. For the first 5 years of me playing I probably only improved 50 Fargo points. Then a growth of 200 points improvement in less than 2.5 years. I am a rare case for sure...but it’s not because I have a natural talent. I put in A LOT of work. The vast majority of people won’t sacrifice what it takes. This kind of growth takes more than you can imagine...I don’t know anyone who has worked on their game as hard as me in the last couple years. I am not saying that statement to toot my own horn, I am saying it because it’s the truth. It has been hell. It has been pain and heartbreak and I have let myself down more times than I can count. But I persist. I keep working on my weaknesses and filling the gaps.

Which brings me to the OP’s original question...in my opinion, it only takes hard work. That’s it. The game has no physical demands so it is purely judgement and muscle memory. On most shots I don’t even aim. I just feel.

It’s muscle memory. Which can be developed by anyone who practices (not plays) consistently. So if you have the obsession and burning desire to drive yourself nuts and put in the hard work required...you can be a great pool player. I believe that. I believe that because I have lived it.

nice one, and congrats on the progress!
it must feel really good to see your work bear fruit
pool is definitely a special game
both simple and complex, certainly worth pondering
I think as is the case with anything, nature plays a part
and proficiency/achievement may come easy to some
but also, as the above poster mentions
there's no substitute for putting in the hard yards
as bobby womack used to say
"you gotta go through it, if you wanna get to it"
 

Bob Jewett

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... It’s muscle memory. Which can be developed by anyone who practices (not plays) consistently. So if you have the obsession and burning desire to drive yourself nuts and put in the hard work required...you can be a great pool player. I believe that. I believe that because I have lived it.
How do you know the challenges faced by other players? What you say may be true for you, but why do you think it is true for everyone?
 

BeiberLvr

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I wanted to chime in on this...I started playing pool casually in 2012. Thought it was cool and started learning. Played a couple times a week or when I was drinking at the bar. No league or anything just thought it was a fun hobby.

Flash forward to October 2017 I decided I wanted to see how good I could really get...I actually had a FargoRate of around 430 at that time from entering a couple local tournaments. Not a big robustness but i would say a very fair assessment of my ability.

I worked hard. Practiced basically everyday. Drills. Drills. Drills. Hours upon hours of hard work and super frustrating and sometimes devastating moments. I almost quit 3 times. I just couldn’t though. I got obsessed. I am still, to this day, working extremely hard on my game.

I won a tournament tonight. Went undefeated. About half the matches were against players over 600 FargoRate. A couple were over 650 and one was over 700. This tournament unfortunately was not FargoRated.

I am 620 Fargo now. When I play in my next FargoRated tournament, it will go up again. It is silly and probably stupid to admit on here but I do aspire to be a professional player. I actually am pretty confident that i’m going to do it too based on far I’ve come in 2.5 years. It’s a slow and grueling process though.

I can tell you all and any other people lurking that are curious...it is possible to MASSIVELY grow your game out of nowhere. For the first 5 years of me playing I probably only improved 50 Fargo points. Then a growth of 200 points improvement in less than 2.5 years. I am a rare case for sure...but it’s not because I have a natural talent. I put in A LOT of work. The vast majority of people won’t sacrifice what it takes. This kind of growth takes more than you can imagine...I don’t know anyone who has worked on their game as hard as me in the last couple years. I am not saying that statement to toot my own horn, I am saying it because it’s the truth. It has been hell. It has been pain and heartbreak and I have let myself down more times than I can count. But I persist. I keep working on my weaknesses and filling the gaps.

Which brings me to the OP’s original question...in my opinion, it only takes hard work. That’s it. The game has no physical demands so it is purely judgement and muscle memory. On most shots I don’t even aim. I just feel.

It’s muscle memory. Which can be developed by anyone who practices (not plays) consistently. So if you have the obsession and burning desire to drive yourself nuts and put in the hard work required...you can be a great pool player. I believe that. I believe that because I have lived it.


It's like people seriously don't read and think that a few anecdotal stories proves there is no such thing as natural talent.

Of course, any average person can improve over time given that they put in the work, and I'm happy to hear that you have improved.

What about the guys that have been playing as long as you have, but haven't practiced nearly as much, and yet can still give you the 7? Those are the players with natural talent. A higher level of hand/eye coordination and spatial awareness.
 

lfigueroa

AzB Silver Member
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The espresso is kicking in so I'll take a stab at this.

You need to have good hand-eye coordination. Having good eyesight certainly doesn't hurt.

You need to have access to affordable, good equipment. That means being able to get all the table time you want on decent, clean cloth, reasonably tough pockets, with good balls. All of this will give you repeatable results which you cannot get if the table is goofy and the balls all dirty and different sizes.

Then, you need good players around to emulate. IMO, nothing accelerates a players performance faster than being around and getting to regularly watch lots of good players, with different styles, take the balls off the table and eventually competing against them.

Then there is the hard work part. Yes, there's the 10,00 hour thing. But that is not 10,000 hours of just hitting balls. It is 10,000 hours of focused practice during which you study and analyze your mechanics and what's happening on the table. it's 10,000 hours of looking at shots, hypothesizing what's going to happen when you execute, and remembering and adjusting for the next time a particular shot comes around again.

Lastly, you need to compete, and more often than not that means gambling. The bitter truth is that often what works during practice will often fail and break down under the heat. And then the task is to figure out if your initial theory was incorrect or whether you didn't execute your plan in competition as you do in practice. The causes of this can be myriad.

Lastly, I think you have to be wired a certain way. There's determination (read: obsessed); a willingness to work hard; a huge dose of self-awareness; zero fear of failure; and a burning desire to compete and prevail.

Should get you close.

Lou Figueroa
 
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MitchDAZB

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
You need to have good hand-eye coordination.
Agreed... pool is great for those who, as little kids, developed their natural hand-eye coordination playing the usual ball games.

The next key is to be small enough in stature that you have no chance in and are therefore not drawn, at least not for long, to the usual baseball, basketball, football games, or racquet sports/futbol in which you actually have to run around and be in shape.

Can't make the alpine team? No problem. Be a snowboarder. Pool's kinda like that.
 

Matt_24

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Can you pay the entry fee? CONGRATS, you're a pro.

Do you have natural talent? (YES, you need it)

Do you believe in yourself?

Are you realistic with your abilities? I think most people GREATLY overrate their games. Can you regularly break and run 2-3 racks in a row? Can you run 50 in straight pool? I've seen GREAT players who don't know a thing about straight pool, but can easily run 50 with just a basic strategy. I saw one go OPPOSITE hand and run a 68 just joking around. And he never plays straight pool. I was very jealous. There's that TALENT thing coming in again.

Do you like to compete with the best players you can under tremendous pressure for tournaments or big bucks? Do you thrive on that feeling?

Are you able to concentrate for extended periods of time without getting lazy, or distracted?

Are you ready to give up EVERYTHING in life to devote it fully to this game, and the struggles associated with sponsorship to live, travel, and play in tournaments full time?

This 10K hours...and "if I practice hard enough" is not true for everyone. Like others, I knew guys who played for 40 years, and competed, etc...but couldn't beat the young kid who'd been playing 6 months, but was a natural athlete and competitor and loved beating these older "know it all" types.

Just a few considerations.
 

AtLarge

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
I wanted to chime in on this...

While I disagree with some of what you said, I just want to welcome you to the group of posters. It's been only about 7½ years since you joined. You have shown admirable restraint! Can we expect more before 2027?

[And nice going on your skill progress.]
 

mantis99

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Everyone can improve if they work on their games, but some people will improve faster than others with the same effort.

Playing OK can come from either lots of natural talent or a lot of work or a little of both.

Playing well requires some natural talent and a lot of work or vice versa.

Playing at the top level requires natural talent and hard work. Saying that natural talent is required does not insult the top players.

You need to give more lessons. There are lots of people who like pool and are willing to work on their games but are incapable of ever running a hundred balls even if they practice for the rest of their lives. You seem to be saying that everyone has the same hand-eye coordination. They don't.

I couldn't agree with this more. It is true in every sport, and generally every aspect of life.

Becoming a top player requires both natural talent and a huge work ethic. Some players get there with a bit more of one than the other, but as the title of the thread asks, at least a certain amount of natural talent is required to reach pro level. Some overcome a lack of natural talent compared to others with work ethic, but that doesn't mean they don't still have more natural talent than the regular pool player.
 
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