All In

J

JAM

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
This is a mentality that is quite common in the poker world. A player gets down to their last chippies, and they go all in. Thereafter, they are out of the competition.

A British entrepreneur, Ashley Revell, decided he wanted to sell everything he owned, cleaned out his savings account, flew to Las Vegas, and let it ride, all $135,000 of it, on RED at the roulette wheel.

As it turns out, this incident happened in 2004, and Ashley Revell was, indeed, a so-called "professional gambler." It was filmed by Sky One as a reality mini-series titled Double or Nothing, and Revell was also featured in an E! documentary special along with Stu Ungar called "THS Investigates: Vegas Winners & Losers."

Here's a brief YouTube of Ashley betting it all: Man Bets His Life Savings.

I have *never* been all in or bet the house on anything in my life, and this mentality is something foreign to me. Thinking about it, though, I realize that many pool players -- pro caliber and action players -- put it all on the line, going all in, riding on empty.

The above-referenced video glorifies a man putting his entire life savings on the line; yet, in the pool world, when a player does something like this, they are sometimes called names. "Degenerate gambler" comes to mind. :embarrassed2:

I have never had a gambling addiction, but when I see something like this, it makes me wonder why. Is it the rush someone gets of betting it all, much like a drug addict? Is it for attention, someone wanting to feel important? Is it something else?

This going all in seems to be an accepted societal norm today. What do you think? Would you do it? Is this what separates the lions from the lambs?

JAM <---lamb
 

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J

JAM

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
To further elaborate, some may say that those who put it all on the line have heart, this so-called "heart" being a badge of honor somehow in the pool world. The same folks would call those who don't go all in as "nits."

In this regard, the pool world seems to worship those who gambling every dime on their pocket, as if this is a sign of strength.

I guess I fall on the other side of the fence. Those who are able to keep their dough in their pockets, without risking their financial security to live, eat, and have a roof over their head, I call them "smart."

Are you a nit if you are smart? Do you have heart if you go all in?
 
justadub

justadub

Rattling corners nightly
Silver Member
There is an awful lot involved in your questions, JAM, and I doubt that I'm qualified to speak on the psychological characteristics that contribute to such a mentality. Or lack thereof...

I'm in the "lack thereof" group, of course. And if that makes me a nit, I'm cool with that. I have a family, and responsibility, and I won't deviate from it, so I cannot allow myself the liberty to gamble in any sort of grand fashion. I'm not against it, per se, it's just not for me. Yes, I like to play poker, and blackjack, and such, but I only allow myself a set (and small) limit, and when that is gone, I'm done. And even so, it's difficult to stop when I do hit that limit. It certainly is addictive, and that sense.
 
rickdf

rickdf

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'm on the same side of the fence as you. But I have to say it's got to be a huge rush. I could feel my own heartbeat increase while watching the wheel spin!





Rick
 
J

JAM

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
justadub said:
There is an awful lot involved in your questions, JAM, and I doubt that I'm qualified to speak on the psychological characteristics that contribute to such a mentality. Or lack thereof...

I'm in the "lack thereof" group, of course. And if that makes me a nit, I'm cool with that. I have a family, and responsibility, and I won't deviate from it, so I cannot allow myself the liberty to gamble in any sort of grand fashion. I'm not against it, per se, it's just not for me. Yes, I like to play poker, and blackjack, and such, but I only allow myself a set (and small) limit, and when that is gone, I'm done. And even so, it's difficult to stop when I do hit that limit. It certainly is addictive, and that sense.
Click to expand...

You and I reside in the same camp, Justadub! :grin:

In thinking about whether a pool player who has heart can also be smart, I am reminded of how the game of pool is played, the defense and offense strategies.

My other half, he goes for shots that there's no friggin' way most players would shoot. In fact, Nick Varner or Ralf Souquet more times than not would choose a safety shot instead of taking a chance on a triple-bank or a long cut shot in the corner pocket.

I think pool players take chances in every game they play. Most seasoned players are well versed in how to engage in a safety battle; whereas, some players may go "all in" on a shot before thinking about a safety.

I kind of recognize this "all in" characteristic in champion pool players when they are competing. You can't excel if you play safe all the time, so you have to get out of your comfort zone, so to speak, and take a chance. It could result, though, in a loss.

A player who is able to incorporate an "all in" mentality with being smart about it, well, I think that's how the pool champions do it. It's a tough juggling act.
 
SpiderWebComm

SpiderWebComm

HelpImBeingOppressed
Silver Member
Well, there are smart gambles and idiot gamblers. A smart gambler would never let their life savings ride on <50% proposition (red/black). An idiot gambler would. If an idiot gambler wants to put it all on the line on something they have way the worst of, does that mean they have heart? Of course not. It means they're an idiot.

People like to throw the word "heart" into describing a gambler who makes idiotic decisions (i.e. betting everything they have in one shot without having way the best of it). It's a tragedy that some people hear this and let it pump them up into doing something they shouldn't do -- it's all false bravado.

To me, "heart" and "idiot gambler" are polar opposites. "Heart" should be associated with the smart gambler (i.e. grinding out a betting system that increases his/her odds, grinding out a game in pool that they have the best of, taking small losses over a long period of time in order to cash-in on a huge score ---- stuff like that).

"Heart" is best associated to a gambler that is calculating and isn't afraid to take a long hard road to a payoff....NOT to an idiot sucker who thinks it's cool to take a 48% shot at everything they own. Heart should be a word to describe a winner, not a loser.

Trust me--- the guy in your example is an idiot sucker (regardless if he won/loss). Heart is Keith spotting everyone the 8 and outrunning the nuts on a long-grind for the cash.
 
Johnnyt

Johnnyt

Burn all jump cues
Silver Member
Money management and "all in" don't go together. I figured out very early in my gambling that no matter how good you are and how much you have the nuts that you HAVE to lose at least once. So no matter if you build your bankroll to 9 wins out of 10 or 19 wins out of 20, if your all in each time your broke either way. I never cared what the railbirds tought of me. You can't eat or pay the rent on so called heart. Johnnyt
 
Scaramouche

Scaramouche

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Lots of people have gone more than all in - they have negative net worth :D:D:D

Just following their governments' good examples.
 
Gerry

Gerry

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
In the pool world I am a nit gambler. I have never been backed, or fired an air barrel, or gone on the road, or bet enough to damage my credit rating!

But....in the "real" world, we have done some scary things like pull all my 401k $$.....sold our house, quit our jobs, and moved 1000 miles south to, for a lack of a better term......see whats out there. An adventure basically. Friends and family were concerned :) I havn't had a steady pay check for 10 years, but our plumbing biz is expanding in this tough economy. I have done some REAL scary things financially, but I never thought of it as a bet or gambling.

I guess some "all in" gamblers are heros in some circles.....not in mine. People that go "all in" on a business venture, with a solid plan, creating jobs, and a well thought out future are the real hero's IMO

G.
 
Maniac

Maniac

2manyQ's
Silver Member
JAM said:
The above-referenced video glorifies a man putting his entire life savings on the line; yet, in the pool world, when a player does something like this, they are sometimes called names. "Degenerate gambler" comes to mind. :embarrassed2:



This going all in seems to be an accepted societal norm today. What do you think? Would you do it? Is this what separates the lions from the lambs?

JAM <---lamb
Click to expand...

If he would have lost the roulette bet, how do you think this gambler Ashley Revell would have gotten back to England without a dime to his name? How/what would he have eaten to stay alive? What would he have done for a roof over his head until he got back on his feet?

The answer is: He would have had to have some help, either from generous people or taxpayers (welfare, low-income housing, etc.).

Either way, he becomes a burden to SOMEBODY. This is assuming that when you say "all in", it is literally ALL IN.

Being a burden to society is why the many anti-gamblers come to use the term "degenerate" to describe someone who had something and foolishly let it slip out of their fingers for a "chance" of making more. They detest (as taxpayers) the thought of having their tax dollars support them. This is all mere speculation on my part.

As for the second part of your above quoted post, no, I would definitely NOT do it. I rarely gamble as I simply worked way too hard to get where I am today. When on rare occasion that I do gamble, I have a pre-set amount that I am willing to lose and if/when I do lose it I am ABSOLUTELY done until the next time, which won't be anytime soon. If more pool gamblers took this approach, there would be more pool gamblers with a "pot to piss in", so to speak. I have a feeling this is how/why SVB gets the respect of so many pool fans. I think he (or whoever is in charge of his finances) is a money-saavy person.

Just a couple of thoughts.

Maniac
 
Cdryden

Cdryden

Pool Addict
Silver Member
Jam, when I read your post I was reminded of a study that was done on compulsive gamblers. They said that several of their test subjects experienced a release of dopamine in the brain when they gamble.
Dopamine gives people a type of high, so I can see why some people equate it to a drug addiction.

My biggest "All In" moment was when I got married the second time, and I'm still on that high! 14 years later.
 
Bigjohn

Bigjohn

Support Our Troops!
Silver Member
people do that everyday in vegas without the hoop-la. i saw it for the first time this morn. it looked like a tv gameshow production. my first impression was that it was staged... Vegas was way too happy to fork over their loss. plus ...after taxes he would have most likely been right back where he was.
 
E

erikido

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
SpiderWebComm said:
Well, there are smart gambles and idiot gamblers. A smart gambler would never let their life savings ride on <50% proposition (red/black). An idiot gambler would. If an idiot gambler wants to put it all on the line on something they have way the worst of, does that mean they have heart? Of course not. It means they're an idiot.

People like to throw the word "heart" into describing a gambler who makes idiotic decisions (i.e. betting everything they have in one shot without having way the best of it). It's a tragedy that some people hear this and let it pump them up into doing something they shouldn't do -- it's all false bravado.

To me, "heart" and "idiot gambler" are polar opposites. "Heart" should be associated with the smart gambler (i.e. grinding out a betting system that increases his/her odds, grinding out a game in pool that they have the best of, taking small losses over a long period of time in order to cash-in on a huge score ---- stuff like that).

"Heart" is best associated to a gambler that is calculating and isn't afraid to take a long hard road to a payoff....NOT to an idiot sucker who thinks it's cool to take a 48% shot at everything they own. Heart should be a word to describe a winner, not a loser.

Trust me--- the guy in your example is an idiot sucker (regardless if he won/loss). Heart is Keith spotting everyone the 8 and outrunning the nuts on a long-grind for the cash.
Click to expand...



100 percent with you on that one..

I think someone else talked about the players playing the percentages.

Percentages are a relative thing as you sort of alluded too. If I get down on a 3 rail kick that isn't hanging in the pocket and I see it going then is it low percentage. If I see the ball going in then more often than not it will.
 
Jodacus

Jodacus

Shoot...don't talk
Silver Member
Gamble

Most people don't realize there are lots of ways to be "all in".

The gentleman who moved his family and started a new business has as much "gamble" as any pool player or card player around. Every time this man takes on a new job or a new employee he is taking a chance (gambling). Most folks don't realize this and don't really recognize the risk this man took. He gets my respect.

There are lots of ways to gamble that do not involve balls and cards. A piece of art never comes with a guarantee of future value. Neither does property where a $500,000.00 "bet" is not uncommon. Admittedly all of the money may not be lost but as we have all seen in the recent downturn there are substantial risks involved!

I once knew a pool player who roundly criticized a very rich man for not gambling more money on the pool table. What the pool player didn't know was that this rich man had been buying and selling properties since his college days. Being "all in" on several occasions and each time for more money than the last. The pool player never knew how much real gamble this now rich man has.
 
Jude Rosenstock

Jude Rosenstock

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
For NLHE players, "all-in" is often a strategic measure taken by aggressive players to force a fold (or entice a call, depending on the situation). The term means something entirely different at the roulette wheel or any scenario where the bettor is risking not just their stack but their entire life's earnings.

In my opinion, the double-or-nothing player knows no other way of life. Money equals bullets and a bullet has no other purpose than to be fired. I don't think the average poker player would necessarily fall into this catagory. Oftentimes, poker players are labeled as grinders - players who look for a statistical edge over a long haul. You do find that guy in a poker tournament who will rush to a huge chip lead in the early stages only to get swallowed up by his table at bubble time. It happens in every event and each time I'm witness to it, it baffles me.

I think they're adreneline junkies. They're not limited to casinos and poker rooms either. You see them doing crazy stunts in cars, in mid-air, with skateboards. These are people who don't quite feel alive unless everything they know is on the line. The compulsive gambler is not always an adreneline junkie but I would say the adreneline junkie is ALWAYS a compulsive gambler.
 
J

Jimmy Mac

Registered
broke

Has there been any book written about a pool hustler who didn't go broke fairly regularly? Wimpy, Cornbread, Jersey Red, Danny Diliberto? Even after huge scores.
 
Blue Hog ridr

Blue Hog ridr

World Famous Fisherman.
Silver Member
Not much a gambler myself either Jen. I am of the mind that I work for my money and like to get a certain amount of value in return. The rush of taking chances with what I have left over isn't something that blows my hair back.

Altho, when a soldier goes into a war area, he or she is essentially going all in, but the stakes are a little higher, Yes?
 
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