Simple Challenge.....
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Simple Challenge..... - 07-17-2019, 06:01 AM

Post a picture of a cut shot, then place arrows at all those points that anyone can see that are used for aiming.

Like the contact points, like the fractions on the OB, or anything that you think is real and used for aiming.

If you claim there are things that can be used for aiming, point them out in the picture.
  
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07-17-2019, 06:16 AM

I imagine we all have different ways of getting it done but it boils down to a certain perception. (Shot looks right). After many hours of shooting a picticular shot the brain just knows what to do. Lay off pool for awhile an you kinda lose it a little. I also think the arrow thing is a nice tool to practice with because you can really get to understand what's happening on different types of shots.


Everyone has photographic memory; some just don't have the film.
  
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07-17-2019, 10:10 AM

I had a putting lesson 20 years ago with someone who is now a prominent teaching pro. We lined up a left-to-right putt that we both agreed broke about a foot, and he told me to try to aim my putter a foot outside the hole. I set up the putt and when he attached a laser to my putter head it turned out I was aimed two feet outside the hole - exactly double the desired amount of break. That's because I visualize curves and by thinking about the point 1 foot left of the hole I naturally placed my putter head 1 foot to the left of that. The good news is that putting along a curve or putting along a line are both valid ways to get the ball in the hole and there are great putters who use both methods.

Different people visualize different things. Just because you have trouble seeing something in your mind's eye doesn't mean it won't work for other people.
  
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07-17-2019, 10:47 AM

I need somebody to do me a favor because I don't know how to put pictures on this web site.

Would some one please take a One Ball and using an erasable marker, draw a perfect green line(or whatever color your cloth is) around the equator of the ball. Then draw a red line around the north to south axis of the ball. Place the ball on the playing surface with the equatorial line on perfect plane with the surface. Then align the red line as the straight-in shot line to the pocket of your preference. Walk around the table and from any angle you will be able to see the exact contact point on the One Ball(object ball). Strike the cue ball in such a way that it hits the object ball at the point where the red and green line intersect.

Maybe it will help players "see" the contact point. Sometimes I'll mark up five or six balls. As I make the One and get poz on the Two, I will rotate the Two as required to "show" me the next shot...and so on.
  
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BC21
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07-17-2019, 11:57 AM

Using the ob itself (its width/diameter) makes it pretty simple to visualize fractional partitions as shown here. Anyone with the slightest spacial skills can accurately estimate a vertical ob center line and far left or right vertical line, which makes it very easy to pinpoint the halfway line or point between these two visualizations. The example below is a 3/4 aim.

Naturally, unless there is a specific marking on the ball at the exact aim point or vertical line, this isn't something you can literally see. But compared to an imaginary ghostball, at least there is something real and plainly visible (ob) to use as an aiming reference for visualizing the aim line, aim point, or vertical slice of the ob.

Ghostballs are invisible/imaginary. You must visualize where the ghostball needs to be. You do this using your best estimation based on experience, then you must visualize an aim line that puts the cb at this estimated ghostball location, referencing absolutely nothing other than your imagination. If you are off on visualizing either one (the ghostball itself or the aim line), or you can't deliver the cue properly down this line, then you're likely missing the shot and will not know if you missed due to a bad estimate of where the ghostball should've been or a bad estimate of ligning up to this invisible reference point. Or maybe the miss was due to a flaw in stroke mechanics.

I believe the more defined we can make our aim (like using the ob as a reference or guide, either in conjunction with an estimated ghostball location or simply ignoring the ghostball and focusing directly on a point or slice of the ob), the quicker we can program our brain to recognize shots as soon as we them.




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07-17-2019, 12:14 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BC21 View Post
Using the ob itself (its width/diameter) makes it pretty simple to visualize fractional partitions as shown here. Anyone with the slightest spacial skills can accurately estimate a vertical ob center line and far left or right vertical line, which makes it very easy to pinpoint the halfway line or point between these two visualizations. The example below is a 3/4 aim.

Naturally, unless there is a specific marking on the ball at the exact aim point or vertical line, this isn't something you can literally see. But compared to an imaginary ghostball, at least there is something real and plainly visible (ob) to use as an aiming reference for visualizing the aim line, aim point, or vertical slice of the ob.

Ghostballs are invisible/imaginary. You must visualize where the ghostball needs to be. You do this using your best estimation based on experience, then you must visualize an aim line that puts the cb at this estimated ghostball location, referencing absolutely nothing other than your imagination. If you are off on visualizing either one (the ghostball itself or the aim line), or you can't deliver the cue properly down this line, then you're likely missing the shot and will not know if you missed due to a bad estimate of where the ghostball should've been or a bad estimate of ligning up to this invisible reference point. Or maybe the miss was due to a flaw in stroke mechanics.

I believe the more defined we can make our aim (like using the ob as a reference or guide, either in conjunction with an estimated ghostball location or simply ignoring the ghostball and focusing directly on a point or slice of the ob), the quicker we can program our brain to recognize shots as soon as we them.


My aim/contact point on the object ball is on your line center through object ball on that same shot with 2 tips of inside English to go 3 rails for shape. Through shooting thousands of shots there is no need to try and figure anything out or line anything up. Just get down and execute.
  
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07-17-2019, 12:48 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by KenRobbins View Post
My aim/contact point on the object ball is on your line center through object ball on that same shot with 2 tips of inside English to go 3 rails for shape. Through shooting thousands of shots there is no need to try and figure anything out or line anything up. Just get down and execute.
I agree 100%. But for those that haven't shot thousands of shots, like the average weekend player, solid aiming references help develop good fundamental ball pocketing skills.

Incorporating english and how it affects the aim line is an entirely different lesson. And compensating for english is different for different cues, so I can't just say "Aim 1.5 tips right of center cb to the center of the ob to pocket this cut shot and bring the cb around the table". If your cue shaft plays differently than mine then you might never make the shot with those specific instructions. Players have to practice and experiment with various spin shots to discover their own specific instructions for doing this.

You and I might not ever think about it, but at some point in the development of our skills we had to have put some sort of conscious effort into compensating our aim anytime we needed english. Anyhow, I think a good shot maker can easily adapt to applying english when needed, but it will be take a few shots to know how their specific cue works it.


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07-17-2019, 12:56 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BC21 View Post
I agree 100%. But for those that haven't shot thousands of shots, like the average weekend player, solid aiming references help develop good fundamental ball pocketing skills.

Incorporating english and how it affects the aim line is an entirely different lesson. And compensating for english is different for different cues, so I can't just say "Aim 1.5 tips right of center cb to the center of the ob to pocket this cut shot and bring the cb around the table". If your cue shaft plays differently than mine then you might never make the shot with those specific instructions. Players have to practice and experiment with various spin shots to discover their own specific instructions for doing this.

You and I might not ever think about it, but at some point in the development of our skills we had to have put some sort of conscious effort into compensating our aim anytime we needed english. Anyhow, I think a good shot maker can easily adapt to applying english when needed, but it will be take a few shots to know how their specific cue works it.
I understand completely what you guys are doing and respect that. That's definitely true about different shafts and deflection, along with different stroke speed. I use a maple shaft, which has more deflection than the more popular carbon fiber shafts today. I've never played with one, so no experience with them.
  
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07-17-2019, 01:09 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by KenRobbins View Post
I understand completely what you guys are doing and respect that. That's definitely true about different shafts and deflection, along with different stroke speed. I use a maple shaft, which has more deflection than the more popular carbon fiber shafts today. I've never played with one, so no experience with them.
I'll never forget going back to the bar scene and using house wood (a house/bar cue) after spending a few years of playing exclusively in poolhalls with my personal cue. Every time I used english I missed! After a couple of games I had the feel of that bar cue down, but it sure took some adjustment to get used to.


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07-17-2019, 05:47 PM

Here's another one....

The white dot represents where the bottom of the ghostball needs be. Here it is a visible dot, but in reality it's imagined and not seen. On the ob is also a dark smudge that indicates where the contact point/patch is located. As with the ghostball, this is imagined, not something we actually see.

The green vertical lines are quarter ball slices of the ob. Aiming at these lines gives you the basic quarter fractional shots, starting with straight on (full), then a 3/4, a 1/2, and a 1/4. Using simple spacial skills one can easily visualize partitioning the ob like this because the ob is visible and the full aim and 1/2 ball aim lines are very obvious to visualize. Estimating between these two lines (splitting the ball into quarters) isn't all that difficult either.

It all boils down to what you've worked with (ghostball, contact points, fractions, etc...) and what you've had the most success with as far as consistency. I have no clue how I first learned to pocket balls. Maybe ghostball, which is probably why it took a couple of years before I was remotely consistent at shooting balls. If I could start over as a beginner I'd use fractional aiming to develop a good feel for pocketing balls. But not the traditional 5-lines system of trial and error guesswork. That would take a while to build consistency also.
I'd use my fractional aiming method or maybe Joe Tucker's method. From what I've heard it works well also.

For me, even though the ghostball is always the same distance from the ob, the perspective of the distance (visualized from behind the cb) makes it difficult to pinpoint. Same with the contact point. Anyone can stand behind the ob and locate where the cb needs to make contact with it, but keeping that spot in focus while you move back behind the cb isn't so easy. The quarter lines for fractional aiming are always the same.



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Last edited by BC21; 07-17-2019 at 06:41 PM.
  
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07-18-2019, 03:30 AM

when i use fractions or thickness of hit to aim i use these targets
Name:  aiming targets.jpg
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07-19-2019, 04:54 AM

Nice try, but nope. There is nothing to aim with. Nothing.....at all.

I stated arrows pointing to what anyone can use, not put marks on the balls.

There is no contact point to see, you can imagine one there for yourself, but there is not a point anyone can use, nor are there any numbers on rails, nor fraction marks on balls.......nothing real.

The point is that using Ghostball is no harder than any other sighting method. They all require a person to use their imagination to visualize whatever steps their sighting method requires.

Why there are those that keep this myth going, I have no idea.
  
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07-19-2019, 08:50 AM

Your post remind me of catshit.....but in this case duckshit. They just stink.

Sorry to be so negative but you post some of the most ridiculous stuff. Come back to reality before it's too late.


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07-20-2019, 08:24 AM

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Your post remind me of catshit.....but in this case duckshit. They just stink.
Sorry to be so negative but you post some of the most ridiculous stuff. Come back to reality before it's too late.
Why do you say you're sorry?
Everyone knows you really aren't.....
"Come back to reality before it's too late."


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Smile 07-21-2019, 12:40 PM

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Originally Posted by Low500 View Post
Why do you say you're sorry?
Everyone knows you really aren't.....
"Come back to reality before it's too late."
That's true, does that make me a bad guy?

Listen, this duck dude has never showed any pool skills other posting something every once in awhile that maybe he knows a little about the game. Most of the time is his post are as if he is talking down to you. It is evident that he really thinks he knows more than he does.
I could imagine the duck as a music instructor and Eric Clapton , Stevie Ray Vaughan ,Joe Satriani ,Steve Vai, Yngwie Malmsteen, Estas tonne were his students.
The duck gives each 10 minutes to show their skills an at the end tells them all their doing it all wrong. Thats the duck for you.


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