New Cuetec Cynergy vs Wood

ShootingArts

Smorg is giving St Peter the 7!
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OK, there is no claim this has been a fair test more like first impressions.

I have played with a flat laminate 13mm shaft for years. I whittled it out from a blank so naturally everything about it suits me, although I generally play with a little smaller shaft, 12.25 to 12.75mm. the taper has a slight rise, but has a 14 inch or so "pro taper", my version of it anyway. That is about as long as I have been able to get a pro taper to play well for me.

I had hit with an 11.8 CF shaft a few times and liked it. This Cynergy shaft has a short white ferrule which I had thought would be a plus in limited play without one. I may come back around to wanting a white ferrule but I am going to try to find some black electrical tape to put around it, maybe even some other colors. The black to white contrast seems to be too much to suit me, a matter of preference.

I haven't checked lengths and weights, I lost an inch of shaft, but the balance remains close enough to be unnoticeable, pretty much identical with this 29" CF and my 30" wood shaft.

The CF shaft seems to give a cleaner hit than the wood. It doesn't seem to move around much and definitely transfers force a little better, my shots are rolling long. It also transfers english well, a little better than my wood shaft. I guess a little better pretty much describes the shaft. No jump, maybe half a ball better. Half a ball ain't to be knocked and I think I may be able to make that a ball better when I get this thing working properly.

It is nice not to have to index the shaft which I always do with wood. The shaft came with the standard tip, I think a Tiger? Not a tip I have ever played with but I couldn't see not even testing the one that Cuetec favors for whatever reasons. I like as fairly soft hit. I'm pleased with the tip.

I normally play naked. Getting pretty uncommon but a glove is just one more aggravation. I sweat, I sweat a lot wearing a glove. Taking the thing off and wringing sweat out of it annoys me. So far, the CF shaft is fine when I am fresh and not as grabby as the wood when I start sweating and the hands start getting gummy. I wash my hands often but nice to know I won't need to midgame.

I'm hitting balls on a seven foot Valley at home. The cushions seem like they have been replaced and the cloth is fair. It is on my covered back porch, walls on two sides, sorta.

I have been struggling with some of my go to shots with the Valley and my wooden shaft. They seem more inclined to fall with the CF. One shot I flat haven't been able to do is a cross side bank from a couple diamonds out where I have balls in the way and have to make the first leg the long leg, going almost to the corner pocket and coming straight back across the table parallel to the end rail. That shot went first try with the Cynergy.

How much is the CF helping? The tip? The smaller diameter? I don't know. I do know that all of the CF shafts seem to give that same "cleaner" hit. They aren't pingy which I was originally afraid of, they just seem to transfer force a little better and the new one doesn't seem inclined to miscue.

CF over wood for me for the foreseeable future. It isn't a huge jump, more like finding a little better set of tires for my circle track car in the old days.

Hu
 

westcoast

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I’m pondering the purchase of one. Seems like most people have a favorable opinion. The price is fairly steep though. Cheapest new one I can find is $600
 

ShootingArts

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mark up varies a bunch!

I’m pondering the purchase of one. Seems like most people have a favorable opinion. The price is fairly steep though. Cheapest new one I can find is $600


Some brands have a large dealer mark up, some very little. When things settle down a bit I'm thinking some brands will be selling for not much more than half that. Others are going to have to have the price come down to the dealers to be able to sell to customers cheaper as they are getting little mark up now.

I understand R&D costs and marketing too but still, these shafts shouldn't be that expensive once some initial costs are recouped and the new wears off. I'd think $300-$350 should buy one of these shafts from many suppliers in not much more than a year, maybe two. China has some very cheap ones now but definitely a pig in a poke, I don't think I would buy from the noname ebay sources.

I was waiting for prices to get where I think they ought to be but then I decided I might as well use my stimulus check to stimulate the pool economy and enjoy the new toy now instead of a year from now.

If you are playing with a top wood low deflection shaft now it is hard to justify the expense. If you are hitting with plain maple I think the change is worthwhile if you are making money or trying to make money playing pool. The shaft should pay for itself.

Hu
 

westcoast

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Some brands have a large dealer mark up, some very little. When things settle down a bit I'm thinking some brands will be selling for not much more than half that. Others are going to have to have the price come down to the dealers to be able to sell to customers cheaper as they are getting little mark up now.

I understand R&D costs and marketing too but still, these shafts shouldn't be that expensive once some initial costs are recouped and the new wears off. I'd think $300-$350 should buy one of these shafts from many suppliers in not much more than a year, maybe two. China has some very cheap ones now but definitely a pig in a poke, I don't think I would buy from the noname ebay sources.

I was waiting for prices to get where I think they ought to be but then I decided I might as well use my stimulus check to stimulate the pool economy and enjoy the new toy now instead of a year from now.

If you are playing with a top wood low deflection shaft now it is hard to justify the expense. If you are hitting with plain maple I think the change is worthwhile if you are making money or trying to make money playing pool. The shaft should pay for itself.

Hu
I've been shooting with a Cuetec R360 for years, but it has gotten so much use that it is starting to get kind of worn out/ beat up. I really like it, but I'm thinking of buying a new cue.
 

ShootingArts

Smorg is giving St Peter the 7!
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A package would be nice

I've been shooting with a Cuetec R360 for years, but it has gotten so much use that it is starting to get kind of worn out/ beat up. I really like it, but I'm thinking of buying a new cue.

Predator is the only one that is offering a CF/CF package I believe. I think Cuetec might be offering packages too but I don't know if they offer a CF butt. I considered the Predator complete cue but I didn't like anything they offered. Don't like the looks of the CF shaft on a traditional butt either, gonna take awhile for custom builders to start designing with CF shafts in mind.

Buying a pig in a poke is always risky, I took a gamble on this shaft. I did know that most nearly new cues or shafts can find a buyer with little lost at a busy pool hall. Covid might make a quick local sale hard right now, I don't know.

Hu
 

westcoast

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For those of you that have the cuetec cynergy, what’s the tip like?

I’ve heard that getting the tip replaced is a little dicey in that it is constructed differently than other shafts. I really like the guy who does tip work for me but I doubt he has much experience with cf shafts
 

Mr. Dogg

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ShootingArts;6685952I said:
I understand R&D costs and marketing too but still, these shafts shouldn't be that expensive once some initial costs are recouped and the new wears off.

The manufacturing costs of CF products are high, too.
 

West Point 1987

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You can get them in either 12.5 or 11.8 mm for $399. Seyberts has them as do suppliers on Amazon for that price. I like them so much I have two, both in 12.5mm. Been shooting with it for a year, I love it.

The Sniper trip plays soft for a day or two, then firms up and plays medium. I just replaced the tip on my first shaft this week, putting a milk dud on. Both tips play just fine. I didn't like the Sniper at first, but once it hardened up, it plays great.

This shaft is so much more consistent (I cannot tell the difference between my two Cynergys) than maple. I can ALWAYS tell the difference when I switch between shafts, but not with CF. I also noticed the increase in energy transfer playing with CF. Jumping with a full cue and one of the Cynergy or Revo shafts is pretty much impossible, but that's a testament to its low deflection.
 

westcoast

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You can get them in either 12.5 or 11.8 mm for $399. Seyberts has them as do suppliers on Amazon for that price. I like them so much I have two, both in 12.5mm. Been shooting with it for a year, I love it.

The Sniper trip plays soft for a day or two, then firms up and plays medium. I just replaced the tip on my first shaft this week, putting a milk dud on. Both tips play just fine. I didn't like the Sniper at first, but once it hardened up, it plays great.

This shaft is so much more consistent (I cannot tell the difference between my two Cynergys) than maple. I can ALWAYS tell the difference when I switch between shafts, but not with CF. I also noticed the increase in energy transfer playing with CF. Jumping with a full cue and one of the Cynergy or Revo shafts is pretty much impossible, but that's a testament to its low deflection.

Thanks for the feedback.

I would likely buy the entire cue, not just the shaft- hence, the extra expense.

I'll probably buy one in the relatively near future.
 

S.Vaskovskyi

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The manufacturing costs of CF products are high, too.

...and greed being the main reason plus the demand just shows them they can ask for that price.
Just a simple question: have you ever built a quality LD shaft out of wood and CF to have a practical experience and opinion on the results to compare?
I have some...and one day I may share my experience.

For the time being out of those big companies offering CF shafts Cuetec Cynergy might be the best choice for one deciding to spend some $$$ on a new CF shaft in my opinion.
As it was mentioned you can get it from Seyberts for 399$ and there are so many joint options to choose from. The only option they still lack is to offer them in extra length.

That is the major reason and some curiousity for me to decide to build a CF shaft based on a quality CF blank. The most important part of the task was to find a supplier offering really good blanks with a taper I like.
The first one I've built for myself just a week ago and now testing it at the table hardly. So far the more I play with it the more I like it and now I see I'm ready to start comleting a second shaft for my student (the ABW forearm - curly maple handle - ABW buttsleeve butt I've built is already waiting to pair with).
Started yesterday making the insert and glued in...very soon I'll see how this one turns out comparing to the first one...
At the same time I'm working on the cues for other customers with hard maple LD shafts and building one more for myself. It's already months I'm working on them slowly but surely turning them down to a finished size and taper and there are still some to pass...so much patience is needed.
So once I found and got CF blanks...to complete the shafts is a matter of hours ...ok a few days for the epoxy used for the inserts and an hour for filling in.
Comparing to working with wood if time and labor work to compare it's just a joke and if cf shaft is what a new generation will choose I don't mind...:grin:
 
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S.Vaskovskyi

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(No, I've never built a shaft.)

How much do the blanks cost?
Look ...if comparing to maple blanks offered outhere...surely more expensive but they are completely ready to finish and as I said it takes "a joke" comparing to maple blanks. If go deeper in the subject...for example how many out of let's say 10 or 100 maple blanks will not end up as a shaft;).
As I said one day I may share some experience but for the time being I can tell for sure this CF alternative for the shaft makes life much easier for a learning cuebuilder like me who had not invest those money in CNC, tapering stuff and so on. Those experienced builders who work so long with the wood...invested so much in all the equipment to make the job done and all the processes are already known and so on ... some will need some kick at the ... to start something new.
For me it is much much easier I've got my curiousity and what is also important 20 years of working as a coach here in Kiev and playing too. I understand fairly good my goals and what I can get with certain materials at the end. So far I have a lot of fun and I'm glad new possibilities appear.
 

Mr. Dogg

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Look ...if comparing to maple blanks offered outhere...surely more expensive but they are completely ready to finish and as I said it takes "a joke" comparing to maple blanks. If go deeper in the subject...for example how many out of let's say 10 or 100 maple blanks will not end up as a shaft;).
As I said one day I may share some experience but for the time being I can tell for sure this CF alternative for the shaft makes life much easier for a learning cuebuilder like me who had not invest those money in CNC, tapering stuff and so on. Those experienced builders who work so long with the wood...invested so much in all the equipment to make the job done and all the processes are already known and so on ... some will need some kick at the ... to start something new.
For me it is much much easier I've got my curiousity and what is also important 20 years of working as a coach here in Kiev and playing too. I understand fairly good my goals and what I can get with certain materials at the end. So far I have a lot of fun and I'm glad new possibilities appear.

I wish you luck & fun!
Considering your costs & time & labor, how much would you sell them for? How many could you make in... oh, say a month? Would you make enough profit for it to be worth your while? (or is that even a goal?)
 

ShootingArts

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Memory blank at the moment

I read somewhere that a CF blank ran about a hundred dollars right now. While looking at time you have to remember that a builder can deal in bulk with CF. Put ten inserts or a few dozen in at once, fill many blanks at once, stick the ferrules in all you have at once, final finish a bunch at once. You can do these things with wood too but wood doesn't lend itself as well to these mass production techniques.

With wooden shaft blanks they started pretty cheap. However, after eight rough turnings, maybe 20% or less survived to my quality cue rack. Somebody might ruin a CF blank or two learning then I would expect zero waste.

The real "issue" with CF blanks is that they are all the same and will be the same after completion. If six cue builders buy from the same supplier, all will turn out the same shaft if they put the same tip on it. Good or bad? I spent several months ruining cue blanks developing "my taper" for wood. It may be very similar to other people's taper but I found that wood hits quite differently for very little change at the joint end. A few other things I learned too. Also, the folks at the pool hall heard a shaft or two snap before I tossed them in the garbage can, didn't want my name connected with them!

I read conflicting information about this 11.8 shaft. Looking at it, it has a very short pro taper section but then the taper behind that is slow enough to not be objectionable. I tried it on two butts. On a friend's cue butt I have to say it was a little better than my wooden shaft on my cue butt maybe but didn't do much for me. I had to modify my pin a little to get it on my cue butt and then with a fair comparison to what I had been shooting with, it really woke up.

That may be the saving grace of the coca-cola shaft blanks all being the same, they really show what difference a butt can make.

Hu
 

S.Vaskovskyi

AzB Silver Member
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I wish you luck & fun!
Considering your costs & time & labor, how much would you sell them for? How many could you make in... oh, say a month? Would you make enough profit for it to be worth your while? (or is that even a goal?)

Thanks.
When it comes to how many could...would and such it does not have much sense to waste the time on such discussion Much better to speak about something you've done so having some experience and results. I don't have much interest to mass produce cf shafts but I'm glad to have more possibilities when building a certain cue. It's good to be able to offer your cue either with wooden shaft or cf depending on what suits better certain player, customer.
 

S.Vaskovskyi

AzB Silver Member
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I read somewhere that a CF blank ran about a hundred dollars right now. While looking at time you have to remember that a builder can deal in bulk with CF. Put ten inserts or a few dozen in at once, fill many blanks at once, stick the ferrules in all you have at once, final finish a bunch at once. You can do these things with wood too but wood doesn't lend itself as well to these mass production techniques.

With wooden shaft blanks they started pretty cheap. However, after eight rough turnings, maybe 20% or less survived to my quality cue rack. Somebody might ruin a CF blank or two learning then I would expect zero waste.

The real "issue" with CF blanks is that they are all the same and will be the same after completion. If six cue builders buy from the same supplier, all will turn out the same shaft if they put the same tip on it. Good or bad? I spent several months ruining cue blanks developing "my taper" for wood. It may be very similar to other people's taper but I found that wood hits quite differently for very little change at the joint end. A few other things I learned too. Also, the folks at the pool hall heard a shaft or two snap before I tossed them in the garbage can, didn't want my name connected with them!

I read conflicting information about this 11.8 shaft. Looking at it, it has a very short pro taper section but then the taper behind that is slow enough to not be objectionable. I tried it on two butts. On a friend's cue butt I have to say it was a little better than my wooden shaft on my cue butt maybe but didn't do much for me. I had to modify my pin a little to get it on my cue butt and then with a fair comparison to what I had been shooting with, it really woke up.

That may be the saving grace of the coca-cola shaft blanks all being the same, they really show what difference a butt can make.

Hu

You're absolutely right. It does not take that much to learn some important details of the building process while working on a cf shaft and as I said it really makes life much easier for à maker but at the same time it takes some things out which most talented cue builders appreciate and aspire. There is certain mystery while you're working with what mother nature created. That's why I respect all that work, time...those cue builders who enjoy their work spending to build their wooden shafts.
I hope there will be those in the future who still enjoy playing with a wooden shaft and at the same time I believe there will be more and more of those who choose a cf shaft to play with.
 
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ShootingArts

Smorg is giving St Peter the 7!
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I don't think wood is going away anytime soon

You're absolutely right. It does not take that much to learn some important details of the building process while working on a cf shaft and as I said it really makes life much easier for à maker but at the same time it takes some things out which most talented cue builders appreciate and aspire. There is certain mystery while you're working with what mother nature created. That's why I respect all that work, time...those cue builders who enjoy their work spending to build their wooden shafts.
I hope there will be those in the future who still enjoy playing with a wooden shaft and at the same time I believe there will be more and more of those who choose a cf shaft to play with.



Between the old guard and the artistic properties I don't think wood is going away anytime soon but I think a decade from now CF might have as much as eighty percent of the new cue market. One thing, butts have to be built with that dark gray shaft in mind from an artistic standpoint. I see some plain ugly cues when that gray shaft is stuck on a butt it doesn't match with at all. Some fantastic butterfly cues from Russia with the butterflies extending into the shaft. I can't picture that working with CF.

Of course beauty is in the eye of the beholder and a lot of people are focused on winning more than pretty. I would like to shoot with a CF butt and shaft but the image of a pool hall full of cues like that almost turned my stomach! Got to admit, I want room for artistry in a cue. Might be like my cars though, some were primarily for pretty, some primarily for go.

Hu
 

S.Vaskovskyi

AzB Silver Member
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Between the old guard and the artistic properties I don't think wood is going away anytime soon but I think a decade from now CF might have as much as eighty percent of the new cue market. One thing, butts have to be built with that dark gray shaft in mind from an artistic standpoint. I see some plain ugly cues when that gray shaft is stuck on a butt it doesn't match with at all. Some fantastic butterfly cues from Russia with the butterflies extending into the shaft. I can't picture that working with CF.

Of course beauty is in the eye of the beholder and a lot of people are focused on winning more than pretty. I would like to shoot with a CF butt and shaft but the image of a pool hall full of cues like that almost turned my stomach! Got to admit, I want room for artistry in a cue. Might be like my cars though, some were primarily for pretty, some primarily for go.

Hu

As for the future of CF in american pool, chinese pool and may be carom it is very likely you're right. When it comes to snooker and especially russian piramid that is completely another story.
If all the new generation want to play with will be full carbon fiber cues unfortunately that is the beginning of the end for most custom cuebuilders.
I enjoy the beauty of the wood and working with it. I had some experience designing some stuff for my car using carbon fiber. While I like the look when carbon fiber is used in exterior and interior of the cars I can't tell the same about cues and I have no interest when it comes to the building process of cf blanks for shafts and butts. I don't see much space for the artistry when it comes to cf cues. It's just boring for me.
It is possible to find at least not so bad matches of cf shafts and the butts out of certain woods using certain design and materials.
I have to give the full cf cue a try at the table one day to have my opinion how it performs and feels. At least It will help me to understand what to be ready for in my new hobby.
 
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ShootingArts

Smorg is giving St Peter the 7!
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Paint and decals

I haven't seem Russian Pyramid played except on video but I would think all CF would shine where a straight firm stroke is needed.

I agree wholeheartedly about not seeing much room for artistry with CF. I might be wrong but I see the pool world splitting up between performance and beauty. CF might allow some wild paint jobs like the car world but it isn't where I want to go either. Tomorrow's cue artists might be spraying pearl and metal flake or be masters with an airbrush. I would like to see a little of that but not paint jobs taking over the custom world, also thinking about woods treated so they are primarily gray instead of brown. I have the CF shaft on a one piece bocate butt with no decoration and it doesn't look horrible there. Nothing to excite or offend.

I shot benchrest rifle competition for awhile. Some of those fiberglass and CF stocks had awesome paint jobs on them. Wasn't my cup of tea and all of my rifles had bright red stocks with no other ornamentation. Bright red was the color of my competition cars and it just seemed natural to paint competition rifles the same when they had to be painted.

Hu





As for the future of CF in american pool, chinese pool and may be carom it is very likely you're right. When it comes to snooker and especially russian piramid that is completely another story.
If all the new generation want to play with will be full carbon fiber cues unfortunately that is the beginning of the end for most custom cuebuilders.
I enjoy the beauty of the wood and working with it. I had some experience designing some stuff for my car using carbon fiber. While I like the look when carbon fiber is used in exterior and interior of the cars I can't tell the same about cues and I have no interest when it comes to the building process of cf blanks for shafts and butts. I don't see much space for the artistry when it comes to cf cues. It's just boring for me.
It is possible to find at least not so bad matches of cf shafts and the butts out of certain woods using certain design and materials.
I have to give the full cf cue a try at the table one day to have my opinion how it performs and feels. At least It will help me to understand what to be ready for in my new hobby.
 
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