rule question, any game

oldplayer

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
in my decades of playing i have never witnessed what happened in a 10 ball ball tournament last night. player "A" plays a safety, leaving the OB on the right rail by the lower right corner and the 2 ball on the opposite side with many balls blocking. the only shot is to bank up & off the head rail, a long bank. the guy puts the chalk on the table using it as a "bead" on a rifle barrel lining up the line to follow from the OB to the head rail to bank. he, of course, removed the chalk before shooting, but, i think that is not allowed but is there a rule for that? that is akin to placing your cue on the table to line up a shot. foul, game over or ball in hand, what? :confused:
 

macguy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
in my decades of playing i have never witnessed what happened in a 10 ball ball tournament last night. player "A" plays a safety, leaving the OB on the right rail by the lower right corner and the 2 ball on the opposite side with many balls blocking. the only shot is to bank up & off the head rail, a long bank. the guy puts the chalk on the table using it as a "bead" on a rifle barrel lining up the line to follow from the OB to the head rail to bank. he, of course, removed the chalk before shooting, but, i think that is not allowed but is there a rule for that? that is akin to placing your cue on the table to line up a shot. foul, game over or ball in hand, what? :confused:

I don't think he did anything wrong as long as it was a piece of chalk and not a non pool related item. He didn't mark the table. Players often use their cues as divining rods as they line up and figure out shots and that is OK.
 
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Rod

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
To my knowledge its legal as long as the chalk is removed before you shoot. You can lay the cue on the table as well if you hold on to the cue. Its covered in the rules, I'm just to lazy to look. LOL

Rod
 

cigardave

Who's got a light?
Silver Member
Placing a piece of chalk on the rail as an aiming device is a FOUL.

Read here... from the BCAPL General Rules.

1.39 Marking the Table
It is a foul if you intentionally mark the table in any way to assist you in executing any
shot or future shot. Marking includes the deliberate placement of chalk or any other
object at a specific point on a rail or cushion to aid the alignment of a shot, or placing any
mark on any part of the table. The foul occurs at the moment you mark the table,
regardless of whether you remove the mark or whether a shot is taken.
 

fast&loose designs

Chris Santana
Silver Member
Placing a piece of chalk on the rail as an aiming device is a FOUL.

Read here... from the BCAPL General Rules.

1.39 Marking the Table
It is a foul if you intentionally mark the table in any way to assist you in executing any
shot or future shot. Marking includes the deliberate placement of chalk or any other
object at a specific point on a rail or cushion to aid the alignment of a shot, or placing any
mark on any part of the table. The foul occurs at the moment you mark the table,
regardless of whether you remove the mark or whether a shot is taken.

I didn't know this. Thanks for posting!
 

Systim6

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
HAHAHA!!! That cracks me up! If someone needs to use a marker to aim on a one rail kick shot I don't think you have much to worry about they probably don't play too good. You should just ask them if they also need a protractor for that shot. lol
 

Chucklez65

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Placing a piece of chalk on the table to help aim is not any different than placing your cuestick on on the table and then looking at the angle with it on the table. You can do this only if you dont let go of it, but cannot be placed on the table to "see" the angle better.

You cant place foreign objects on a table and leave them there as an aiming device of any kind.
 

TheNewSharkster

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Placing a piece of chalk on the rail as an aiming device is a FOUL.

Read here... from the BCAPL General Rules.

1.39 Marking the Table
It is a foul if you intentionally mark the table in any way to assist you in executing any
shot or future shot. Marking includes the deliberate placement of chalk or any other
object at a specific point on a rail or cushion to aid the alignment of a shot, or placing any
mark on any part of the table. The foul occurs at the moment you mark the table,
regardless of whether you remove the mark or whether a shot is taken.


I don't like this rule because it has a lot of grey area. At what point is placing the chalk on the rail considered it "marking"? Do you have to make a point to not put the chalk down on the rail you are kicking into? Seems to me the opposing player could call a foul on you on every shot you chalk up on.
 

cigardave

Who's got a light?
Silver Member
Placing a piece of chalk on the table to help aim is not any different than placing your cuestick on on the table and then looking at the angle with it on the table. You can do this only if you dont let go of it, but cannot be placed on the table to "see" the angle better.
Relative to using your cue to aim a shot, the rules appear to allow this even if the cue is NOT held.

Read here... from the same BCAPL General Rules.

1.3 Use of Equipment
The BCAPL reserves the right to prohibit any equipment it deems untested or
inappropriate, or that has not been evaluated by the BCAPL National Office.
1. You are responsible for all equipment and accessory items you bring to the table (AR
p. 68). You may not use equipment or accessory items in a manner other than their
intended use. Specifically:
a. You may use your cue, held in your hand or not, to help align a shot (AR
p. 68);
20
 

tatcat2000

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hand off stick legal in BCAPL play.

...placing your cuestick on on the table and then looking at the angle with it on the table. You can do this only if you dont let go of it...

While that is still a foul under WSR 6.12, in BCAPL play it is legal to remove your hand from the cue. BCAPL Rule 1-3-1-a is applicable.

On a side note, I know of at least one WSR contributor and expert that has lobbied to have the "hand on the stick" restriction removed from WSR. Maybe they will be successful in the future.

Edit - sorry Dave - you type faster than I do...

:)
Buddy Eick
BCAPL National Head Referee
BCAPL Director of Referee Training
Technical Editor, BCAPL Rule Book
bcapl_referee@cox.net

Find the Official Rules of the BCA Pool League here:

http://www.playbca.com/Downloads/Rulebook/CompleteRulebook/tabid/372/Default.aspx

* The contents of this post refer to BCA Pool League (BCAPL) Rules only. The BCAPL National Office has authorized me to act in an official capacity regarding questions about BCAPL Rules matters in public forums.
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Total_Chaos13

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I know I'll probably get hammered for my reply by all the pool purist in here but I think that the chalk on the rail rule is a stupid rule. Its stupid rules like this that discourage a lot of new players.
 

Tom In Cincy

AKA SactownTom
Silver Member
Would it be ok if you used a mirror? or maybe a laser beam?


I know I'll probably get hammered for my reply by all the pool purist in here but I think that the chalk on the rail rule is a stupid rule. Its stupid rules like this that discourage a lot of new players.
 

TheNewSharkster

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I know I'll probably get hammered for my reply by all the pool purist in here but I think that the chalk on the rail rule is a stupid rule. Its stupid rules like this that discourage a lot of new players.



Maybe you can explain what makes it "stupid"? New players probably aren't playing in BCA anyways. If I am not mistaken its not against the rules in APA (which is more likely a place for a new player to start).
 

cigardave

Who's got a light?
Silver Member
I know I'll probably get hammered for my reply by all the pool purist in here but I think that the chalk on the rail rule is a stupid rule. Its stupid rules like this that discourage a lot of new players.
I can understand why you, as an individual, feel that it is a stupid rule... but I fail to understand how the rule would "discourage a lot of new players".
 

Total_Chaos13

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Maybe you can explain what makes it "stupid"? New players probably aren't playing in BCA anyways. If I am not mistaken its not against the rules in APA (which is more likely a place for a new player to start).

Placing the chalk on the rail is nothing more than a reference point. You still have to have the knowledge to properly determine the ball path, speed, english and other factors. Then you must have the skill set to pull pull it off regardless if its what many consider a "simple" one rail kick or some fabulous 6 rail kick with upside-down inside-out english with a twist ( i know that's not really possible just exaggerating my point.) If you don't have the knowledge or the skill set to pull off the shot then where you place a piece of chalk is irrelevant. Something simple like placing the chalk on the rail isn't like using mirrors or lasers to determine the shot, its just a reference point where to hit to the rail. After i determine who, what, when, where, how to hit the shot the last thing i need is to get down on the ball look at the cue, the rail the cue the rail then realize after all that i have lost my point of reference.

Lots of people are taught to use reference points either its someone on the table like a spot on the cloth or stain or something further our in the room. The points on the rails are nothing more that stationary reference points at pre-determined positions.
 

Chucklez65

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Relative to using your cue to aim a shot, the rules appear to allow this even if the cue is NOT held.

Read here... from the same BCAPL General Rules.

1.3 Use of Equipment
The BCAPL reserves the right to prohibit any equipment it deems untested or
inappropriate, or that has not been evaluated by the BCAPL National Office.
1. You are responsible for all equipment and accessory items you bring to the table (AR
p. 68). You may not use equipment or accessory items in a manner other than their
intended use. Specifically:
a. You may use your cue, held in your hand or not, to help align a shot (AR
p. 68);
20

Thanks for this. I was completely unaware that this rule was listed this way.
Sorry for the incorrect information.
 

Zivan1967

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Placing the chalk on the rail is nothing more than a reference point. You still have to have the knowledge to properly determine the ball path, speed, english and other factors. Then you must have the skill set to pull pull it off regardless if its what many consider a "simple" one rail kick or some fabulous 6 rail kick with upside-down inside-out english with a twist ( i know that's not really possible just exaggerating my point.) If you don't have the knowledge or the skill set to pull off the shot then where you place a piece of chalk is irrelevant. Something simple like placing the chalk on the rail isn't like using mirrors or lasers to determine the shot, its just a reference point where to hit to the rail. After i determine who, what, when, where, how to hit the shot the last thing i need is to get down on the ball look at the cue, the rail the cue the rail then realize after all that i have lost my point of reference.

Lots of people are taught to use reference points either its someone on the table like a spot on the cloth or stain or something further our in the room. The points on the rails are nothing more that stationary reference points at pre-determined positions.

What's the difference from using chalk as a reference point and drawing a line from the cue ball to where you want to hit the object ball with chalk? At some point you have to draw the line and either you allow everything or nothing at all.

Using anything other than your cue should be a foul. It's the same thing when people grab a ball that's already down to see if they have room to make the shot if it's a tight fit. I think it shouldn't be allowed unless you have ball in hand and are allowed to touch a ball in the first place.
 

cigardave

Who's got a light?
Silver Member
It's the same thing when people grab a ball that's already down to see if they have room to make the shot if it's a tight fit. I think it shouldn't be allowed unless you have ball in hand and are allowed to touch a ball in the first place.

FOUL... not allowed at all.

1.3 Use of Equipment
The BCAPL reserves the right to prohibit any equipment it deems untested or
inappropriate, or that has not been evaluated by the BCAPL National Office.
1. You are responsible for all equipment and accessory items you bring to the table (AR
p. 68). You may not use equipment or accessory items in a manner other than their
intended use. Specifically:

g. you may not use any ball, cue, rack, or any other equipment or any part of
your body as a width-measuring device to determine if the cue ball or an
object ball would fit through a gap or to judge what ball the cue ball would
contact first
(AR p. 68).
 

macneilb

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
As far as i'm concerned, you can put the chalk anywhere you like, as it's not altering or affecting the playing surface itself at all. Licking your finger and putting a mark on the table by pressing you wet finger IS what i would consider "marking the table." In my opinion, after I chalk I can put the chalk down anywhere I want. Same could be said for placing your hand on the table in preparation to play shape to where your hand is - it's not affecting or changing the playing surface, so there isn't anything wrong about it to me.
 

GADawg

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
As far as i'm concerned, you can put the chalk anywhere you like, as it's not altering or affecting the playing surface itself at all. Licking your finger and putting a mark on the table by pressing you wet finger IS what i would consider "marking the table." In my opinion, after I chalk I can put the chalk down anywhere I want. Same could be said for placing your hand on the table in preparation to play shape to where your hand is - it's not affecting or changing the playing surface, so there isn't anything wrong about it to me.

I respect that as your opinion, but the rules say otherwise. If we were all allowed to use our opinons to interpret the rules, then everyone's rules would be different.

My opinion is that you cannot intentionally place any object or mark the table in any way to help you align the shot and I think that complies with the rules.
 
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