Cue Makers - Who Determines The Playability Of Your Cues

Cues

Very interesting, meaning the original question. You can copy any of the well known Makers to the smallest detail and still not have a successful, popular cue.

I like to think of Cuemaking as something that is constantly evolving; due to many different factors, some in your control and some out of your control. The public or players taste changes, new equipment allowing the use of unusual woods appears, new materials become available, Makers evolve.
I remember Balabuska cues sitting on the rack priced at $78. to $90. and Rich cues on the same rack for $22. to $30. None were flying off the rack, although, I did buy a Rich cue for
$24. and had to pay it off in increments.

Mario

A couple of cuemakers I know have sent cues out to players to see if they liked how the cue felt.

I've gotten cues like from two cuemakers, who were just seeking opinions and letting multiple customers test something new for them.

One of those times I got one I didn't care for how it hit, and I let them know what I did and didn't like about it.

I'm not a good player by any means, but I have owned a bunch of cues and know what I like and don't like.

99% of the pool playing public wouldn't be able to articulate the characteristics they like other than hit is too soft/hard. Compound that with the fact that you'll spend an hour picking out shaft wood to match, just to have the player chuck them in a case and play with an LD shaft. Just what I've learned working in my father's shop this past year and dealing with friends/customers.

Buster8001 said:

99% of the pool playing public wouldn't be able to articulate the characteristics they like other than hit is too soft/hard. Compound that with the fact that you'll spend an hour picking out shaft wood to match, just to have the player chuck them in a case and play with an LD shaft. Just what I've learned working in my father's shop this past year and dealing with friends/customers.

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Great observation.

I could play a little better than average. So if I could build it so I would like it then someone else would too. Not every hit is for everyone. I have played with cues pros owned that I did not like the hit of.

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HawaiianEye said:

Another example is Southwest.

They have a waiting list of a dozen years, or more.

I'm assuming that lots of people are buying them for their "playability" and not just the name. As a player, I'd hope that is the case.

So, if people are willing to wait that long for a cue that "plays Southwest", why aren't other cue makers using the same dimensions and gobbling up some of the market?

I can see not using the same designs, but the dimensions and tapers aren't something that are patented

Nobody in the production world has any problems with patterning their stuff after something that plays good and is highly marketable. Just how many companies have came out with carbon fiber shafts after Predator introduced them?

This thread is for discussion sake only.
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I bet most just flip them.
Most can't resist the temptation of making a dollar .

And it's actually funny that some Asian factories copy SW's design but not their taper .

And in case you didn't know, those Taiwanese and Chinese players who play with SW sand their shafts.

JoeyInCali said:

I bet most just flip them.
Most can resist the temptation of making a dollar .

And it's actually funny that some Asian factories copy SW's design but not their taper .

And in case you didn't know, those Taiwanese and Chinese players who play with SW sand their shafts.

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Southwest, or any other Cue is just a tool. Like any tool for example a chainsaw in the hand of a skilled artist, it can produce art out of a block of wood. In my hands because I am not a chainsaw artist all you get it kindling, or something of zero value, just firewood.

CocoboloCowboy said:

Southwest, or any other Cue is just a tool. Like any tool for example a chainsaw in the hand of a skilled artist, it can produce art out of a block of wood. In my hands because I am not a chainsaw artist all you get it kindling, or something of zero value, just firewood.

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You sound like a broken record.

Playability is very subjective but it has been my observation that you get used to what ever you use. Your brain and body make the adjustments needed so that you get the results you are looking for. So having said that the more important aspect of a cues playability is its reliability. If you commit to a cue and build your game around it, you want it to last and not fall apart. This is one area that the cuemaker can talk about and compare their product to others. A perfect example is sleeved connections vs threaded. Once turned the buyer cant tell the difference, but give it a few years and they may very well see it. So does the cue that lasts have a better playability? I believe so and as a cuemaker I can definitely advertise that.

Playability

HawaiianEye said:

How did you decide upon the "standard/signature" taper or specifications for YOUR cues?

I know that several "hands on" cue makers (i.e., Mike Gulyassy...Mosconi Cup team for two consecutive years) were/are also professional pool players.

I'm assuming that "they" determine that "their" cues play the "best" because that is what they prefer and feel works the best.

For cue makers who don't play at that level, how is the "feel/hit" determined or measured?

Is it based upon the cue maker's playing ability or has the cue maker adopted specifications based upon somebody else's opinion?

The reason I ask is because I've hit with some cues from various cue makers and, to me, they don't play well. It isn't because the cues were made bad. It's because they played nothing like the cues that I like or that MOST of the players I know like.

This question isn't to say anybody makes a "bad" cue.

It just has me wondering why cue makers think that "their" cues hit/play better than somebody else's cue. I'm assuming that they think their way is better or they wouldn't be doing it that way.

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The short answer is the "player". Iv'e made quite a few cues in the last 25 years and have been shooting pool for about 70 years (I'm 82) and I would venture to guess that if I took the best stick I ever made and played Earl, who used a broom stick, he would beat me hands down. Repeat--the "player".

JoeyInCali said:

You sound like a broken record.

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Actually I was saying tools & I do not mix well, I could turn a nice piece of wood into kindling, not art, because I am a Tool Klutz.

woods and materials that makes the best playing cue in my opinion

In my opinion nothing is better or plays better or hits the rock more true period then a custom full splice cue using the finest quality woods and shaft wood and best materials available with a capped ivory ferrule and hard tip. And I feel terrible for all the people that buy in to the LD shaft stupidity and production cues that are stamped out and made with the cheapest junk soft wood and plastics they can find except maybe for schon çues and very few other production cues and not the new schon cues but the runde area schons and there is a difference in playability between the two. The only reason you see the pros using production cues and low deflection shafts on tv is for advertisement purposes and there usually sponsored to use them not because it's there favorite cue believe me. The problem is not many people are able to get there hands on a good custom cue to play with long enough to see the difference. But with that said there is no magic cue that's going to give you a good stroke and good fundamentals and posture at the table or how important it is to be able to feel the ball when you hit it. And it isn't just the quality of the wood and materials used that makes a great playing cue but the weight density śtiffness and hardness that comes in to play also with those woods and materials that are used to build the cue.

HawaiianEye said:

How did you decide upon the "standard/signature" taper or specifications for YOUR cues?

I know that several "hands on" cue makers (i.e., Mike Gulyassy...Mosconi Cup team for two consecutive years) were/are also professional pool players.

I'm assuming that "they" determine that "their" cues play the "best" because that is what they prefer and feel works the best.

For cue makers who don't play at that level, how is the "feel/hit" determined or measured?

Is it based upon the cue maker's playing ability or has the cue maker adopted specifications based upon somebody else's opinion?

The reason I ask is because I've hit with some cues from various cue makers and, to me, they don't play well. It isn't because the cues were made bad. It's because they played nothing like the cues that I like or that MOST of the players I know like.

This question isn't to say anybody makes a "bad" cue.

It just has me wondering why cue makers think that "their" cues hit/play better than somebody else's cue. I'm assuming that they think their way is better or they wouldn't be doing it that way.

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I do. I have played for over 60 years...it’s a passion. However, some players have very specific specs for their cues. When I built a cue for Keith McCready, he wanted specific weight, forward weight, etc. Any custom ordered would be their specs. Other than that, I build a cue I would play with.

HawaiianEye said:

How did you decide upon the "standard/signature" taper or specifications for YOUR cues?
(snip)

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The best cue is always the one YOU think is the best because you like the way it looks and plays.
Personal preference rules out any one cue being the "best" for everyone.
If it were possible there would only be one style and taper for everyone.

I am just an average league level player and a humble cue maker.
I make a cue according to MY tastes and preferences.
Very little commissioned work ... all made as speculation cues.
If other like them as well then all the better.
I always offer a trial period.
If not I would happily help them find another cue maker more suited to their likes.
I do sell a lot of shafts to the local players for their cues so they must have some merit.