Some random thoughts about pattern racking

Cuebacca

Cuebacca

________
Silver Member
I know you're not supposed to pattern rack in WPA tournaments if you want to get technical about the term "random order" in the rules.

What about in money matches? Do most people pattern rack? Do most people complain when their opponent pattern racks?

I noticed that in one of the TAR matches, there was pattern racking going on, and in another one there wasn't. I think Corey used one specific pattern through the whole day 1 or most of it, and a different one on day 2. I can't remember if Shane did.

I didn't notice a pattern being used by either player in the Bartrum vs. Duchane (sp?) match, but I did notice that besides the 10 and 1, the 2 and 3 were also put in the same spot every time -- the back corners. Was this an agreed upon rule, or just an advantage to the breaker? (I only checked a few racks and didn't watch the whole match.)

If I recall correctly, the Predator Tour rules say that the 2 and 3 need to be racked in these positions. Can anyone comment on the reason? I think they do rack-your-own, so is this just to help the players who might not have known that this is a good spot for these balls?

I know, that's a lot of question marks for one post. :D Just looking for comments. Thanks. :D
 
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Southpaw

Southpaw

Swing away, Meril....
Silver Member
Cuebacca said:
I know you're not supposed to pattern rack in WPA tournaments if you want to get technical about the term "random order" in the rules.

What about in money matches? Do most people pattern rack? Do most people complain when their opponent pattern racks?

I noticed that in one of the TAR matches, there was pattern racking going on, and in another one there wasn't. I think Corey used one specific pattern through the whole day 1 or most of it, and a different one on day 2. I can't remember if Shane did.

I didn't notice a pattern being used by either player in the Bartrum vs. Duchane (sp?) match, but I did notice that besides the 10 and 1, the 2 and 3 were also put in the same spot every time -- the back corners. Was this an agreed upon rule, or just an advantage to the breaker? (I only checked a few racks and didn't watch the whole match.)

If I recall correctly, the Predator Tour rules say that the 2 and 3 need to be racked in these positions. Can anyone comment on the reason? I think they do rack-your-own, so is this just to help the players who might not have known that this is a good spot for these balls?

I know, that's a lot of question marks for one post. :D Just looking for comments. Thanks. :D
Click to expand...

I think the 2 is racked in the back playing 9 ball so that even though you can break and play position on the 1, you really have no idea where the 2 will end up. The ball in the back usually gets kicked when it comes off the end rail.

Southpaw
 
Snapshot9

Snapshot9

son of 3 leg 1 eye dog ..
Silver Member
Racking

I always rack 9 ball the same way everytime.

-1-
3-2
897
5-4
-6-

I have found this pattern of racking to be real good for a runout. OH, and I always rack like that because I plan on my opponent NOT making a ball, and you know what - They don't most of the time ...:rolleyes:

Somehow, it just seems easier at the end of the run if the 8 or 7 went on the break rather than if the 1-5 went on the break.

I think all semi's and final matches in tournaments should have pattern racking to be completely fair to both players. Just 2 balls switched in the rack could be the difference in being able to runout. All TV matches should have pattern racking. The World Cup of Pool should definately have pattern racking.
 
cleary

cleary

Honestly, I'm a liar.
Silver Member
The predator tour doesnt have any rules on where to rack the 2 and 3 ball.

If your gamblings with "rack your own" and you DONT pattern rack... or at least put the 2 and 3 in a "predictable" place, your leaving too much up to fate. And if you are playing "loser racks" and you dont pay attention to the 2 and 3 ball.... get your money out.
 
cleary

cleary

Honestly, I'm a liar.
Silver Member
Watching Shawn Putman at Valley Forge play this past Spring, he seemed to play really well with:

1
38
685
47
2
 
J

JAM

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Cuebacca said:
I know you're not supposed to pattern rack in WPA tournaments if you want to get technical about the term "random order" in the rules.

What about in money matches? Do most people pattern rack? Do most people complain when their opponent pattern racks?

I noticed that in one of the TAR matches, there was pattern racking going on, and in another one there wasn't. I think Corey used one specific pattern through the whole day 1 or most of it, and a different one on day 2. I can't remember if Shane did.

I didn't notice a pattern being used by either player in the Bartrum vs. Duchane (sp?) match, but I did notice that besides the 10 and 1, the 2 and 3 were also put in the same spot every time -- the back corners. Was this an agreed upon rule, or just an advantage to the breaker? (I only checked a few racks and didn't watch the whole match.)

If I recall correctly, the Predator Tour rules say that the 2 and 3 need to be racked in these positions. Can anyone comment on the reason? I think they do rack-your-own, so is this just to help the players who might not have known that this is a good spot for these balls?

I know, that's a lot of question marks for one post. :D Just looking for comments. Thanks. :D
Click to expand...

I think that some tours and tournaments do require the balls to be racked in a certain order.

I know that on the UPA tour, I saw some competitors having to re-rack because the balls weren't in the right order, according to UPA.

I assume -- and I could be wrong -- that it has something to do shooting the balls after the break, not wanting some balls to be grouped together making it too easy of a run-out. But this is conjecture on my part.

The only time I have experienced pattern racking is when somebody was spotting another player the 7 and/or 8 in 9-ball, and the 7 and 8 were placed in a designated spot in the rack in an effort to prevent it from being pocketed on the break.

Good thread and topic. I would be interested to read the comments from others. :)
 
A

av84fun

Banned
Cuebacca said:
I know you're not supposed to pattern rack in WPA tournaments if you want to get technical about the term "random order" in the rules.What about in money matches? Do most people pattern rack? Do most people complain when their opponent pattern racks?

I noticed that in one of the TAR matches, there was pattern racking going on, and in another one there wasn't. I think Corey used one specific pattern through the whole day 1 or most of it, and a different one on day 2. I can't remember if Shane did.

I didn't notice a pattern being used by either player in the Bartrum vs. Duchane (sp?) match, but I did notice that besides the 10 and 1, the 2 and 3 were also put in the same spot every time -- the back corners. Was this an agreed upon rule, or just an advantage to the breaker? (I only checked a few racks and didn't watch the whole match.)

If I recall correctly, the Predator Tour rules say that the 2 and 3 need to be racked in these positions. Can anyone comment on the reason? I think they do rack-your-own, so is this just to help the players who might not have known that this is a good spot for these balls?

I know, that's a lot of question marks for one post. :D Just looking for comments. Thanks. :D
Click to expand...

Maybe Bob Jewett will chime in on what "random order" means. As written, it could mean any order that is not numerically sequential i.e. 123945678 or it could mean random in the sense of "unplanned."

Joe Tucker's Racking Secrets is the NUTS on racking. In the typical "opponent racks" matches, it is ESSENTIAL to know what racking FLAWS are actually to the breakers advantage and which are not.

I have never heard anyone demand...or even discuss "unplanned" racking order in a gambling or local tournament.

Regards,
Jim
 
Cuebacca

Cuebacca

________
Silver Member
av84fun said:
Maybe Bob Jewett will chime in on what "random order" means. As written, it could mean any order that is not numerically sequential i.e. 123945678 or it could mean random in the sense of "unplanned."

Joe Tucker's Racking Secrets is the NUTS on racking. In the typical "opponent racks" matches, it is ESSENTIAL to know what racking FLAWS are actually to the breakers advantage and which are not.

I have never heard anyone demand...or even discuss "unplanned" racking order in a gambling or local tournament.

Regards,
Jim
Click to expand...

Hey Jim,

There was a big thread, I think started by poster "Shortside K", about whether pattern racking was considered cheating. In that thread, Bob J clarified that "random" in the rules, meant "unplanned" or without specific intention. This is hard to enforce to say the least.

I love Joe Tucker's book! :) I have to join you in plugging that. Super good material for those interested in learning about identifying racking flaws. He does talk a little about patterns too.

Take Care,
"Cuebacca"
 
Cuebacca

Cuebacca

________
Silver Member
Cuebacca said:
There was a big thread, I think started by poster "Shortside K", about whether pattern racking was considered cheating. In that thread, Bob J clarified that "random" in the rules, meant "unplanned" or without specific intention. This is hard to enforce to say the least.
Click to expand...

Here's that thread for anyone who may have missed it:

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=48579

Definitely an interesting one, IMO. :)
 
A

av84fun

Banned
Cuebacca said:
Hey Jim,

There was a big thread, I think started by poster "Shortside K", about whether pattern racking was considered cheating. In that thread, Bob J clarified that "random" in the rules, meant "unplanned" or without specific intention. This is hard to enforce to say the least.
I love Joe Tucker's book! :) I have to join you in plugging that. Super good material for those interested in learning about identifying racking flaws. He does talk a little about patterns too.

Take Care,
"Cuebacca"
Click to expand...

RIGHT! How often can the 2 and 3 end up in the same place and still not be planned? How many times can you flip a coin and have it come up heads or tails several times in a row? A LOT is the answser to that question.

So, in the gambling/local event world, pattern racking is the way it's going to be so, again, Joe's book is required reading.

Regards,
Jim
 
rackmsuckr

rackmsuckr

Linda Carter - The QUEEN!
Silver Member
I occasionally pattern rack like this:

1
3 5
6 9 8
4 2
7

The reason being the 1 and 3 go up table, while the 2 and 4 go down table, so it is harder for your opponent to go back and forth with lots of balls on the table. Regardless, I will always put at least the 2 in the back for the same reason.
 
mapman72

mapman72

New member
1
23
496
78
5

Try that one when breaking from the left (facing the rack) and reverse it breaking from the right. One cool thing is that you generally pocket the six ball, which for me is the hardest ball to visualize because it's color is similar to most felts. So this means I won't be shooting it later in the rack when the pressure is on.
 
cleary

cleary

Honestly, I'm a liar.
Silver Member
mapman72 said:
1
23
496
78
5

Try that one when breaking from the left (facing the rack) and reverse it breaking from the right. One cool thing is that you generally pocket the six ball, which for me is the hardest ball to visualize because it's color is similar to most felts. So this means I won't be shooting it later in the rack when the pressure is on.
Click to expand...

I find it hard to shoot the 8 ball from certain angles for the same reason. Being black, if I have to hit on the shadow side of the ball, its harder to pocket.
 
mapman72

mapman72

New member
cleary said:
I find it hard to shoot the 8 ball from certain angles for the same reason. Being black, if I have to hit on the shadow side of the ball, its harder to pocket.
Click to expand...

I hope 8 ball is not your game of choice :D
 
D

David Beck

Let us to Billiards!
Silver Member
Depends who I'm playing. If I'm playing someone I think has a good chance of running out I rack
1
38
694
52
7

If they break from the left(their left) side of the table that order should be reversed. Joe Tucker has a good pattern too. Not sure why I prefer mine.
 
Cuebacca

Cuebacca

________
Silver Member
Thanks everyone. I'm enjoying the comments.

Can anyone comment on the positions of the 2 and 3 in a 10-ball rack? I seem to see these placed in the corners more than anywhere else, kinda like this:

.......1
......X X
....X 10 X
..3..X..X..2

What is the reason for some rules making you put the 2 and 3 balls there? I thought maybe these spots produce "more random" outcomes for the 2 & 3 after the break, since those balls tend to be pretty fast-moving. But I've also seen money players put them there in rack-your-own TAR matches. I guess I might just have to experiment, but I figured someone would know about this already too.
 
TXsouthpaw

TXsouthpaw

My tush hog
Silver Member
1
63
598
42
7

Its supposed to make the runout harder. I dont play it much against opponents im too lazy. but I do rack em like that when i play the ghost at home. and yes sometimes it does make the runout harder. as in i gotta go up and down the table the whole rack to get out.
 
TXsouthpaw

TXsouthpaw

My tush hog
Silver Member
and like i posted in another thread.

If you pattern rack in order to make the runout harder for your opponent. Guess what happends when he miss? Now YOU have the hard runout. If your playing someone who can put a few racks at a time on you then pattern racking might help. but for the average player it wont help, and it might even do more harm than good.
 
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