Doubling the bet...trap?

vagabond · Feb 22, 2015

macguy said:
I don't do it. It is what is called a "Martingale system"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martingale_(betting_system)

. Also "NEVER" lower the bet once you have raised it. $80 a game is $80 a game. Not $80 for one game and back to $20.

It happend more than 20 years ago in another Southern state. 9 Ball ,race to 9 for ---
I lost two sets in a row. I asked for doubling the bet. He agreed . I beat him and got my money back. He wanted to play another set and wanted to double the bet. I said no for doubling the bet further. I said that I want to lower the bet to the original amount. He said that he never heard of such thing and it was not a tradtion in pool gambling to lower the bet once it was doubled. I said that I don`t follow those traditions or rules and I follow my own rules and it is: Anything and everything has to be agreed upon by two gentleman before the start of each set. He got pissed off. He was 6 Feet and 4 inches tall and weighed 275 lbs and served a short sentence in the prison and I was not intimidated by those stats. I don`t get intimidated by anything and I follow my rules and traditions. Take it or leave it.

Solomon · Feb 22, 2015

Black-Balled said:
I can see both sides...it is frustrating to win it at a lower bet and give it back at a higher one, but taking the double it up route is how huge scores is be made.

There was this guy in NYC, he was playing the cook in a poolroom 8 ball and they started out at 20/game and the cook lost the firs game. The went double or nothing and the cook lost again. They repeated that pattern, until the cook lost 20 in a row.

Do the math.

BRussell said:
I did the math and the guy made 20 million dollars total.

$20,971,520 to be exact. I need to quit my job and become a cook!

Gangplank · Feb 22, 2015

But he never got paid did he? Moral?

BRussell · Feb 22, 2015

macguy said:
I don't do it. It is what is called a "Martingale system"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martingale_(betting_system)

Let's be honest though, Martingale isn't a betting system, it's a "betting system." Tight-aggressive or loose-aggressive, those are betting strategies or systems. Martingale is only a system for suckers to lose even more money, like "the more you play the more you win" is a betting system.

Bbutler · Feb 22, 2015

If you beat a guy two sets and he wants to play the third double or nothing you should always do this. Worst case you end up even and you can either continue playing or quit. Best case he goes off and loses all his money to you.

Or, as a wise man once told me; Never get in the way of a man who's trying to bust himself.

Jaden · Feb 22, 2015

Like with all gambling the double or nothing is a loser's proposition...

deanoc said:
to tell the truth it annoys me when they don't

if you don't like the double up when you win
when do you

i have always been amazed to see people, who usually lose ,clam up when they get ahead

the time to raise the bet is when you are ahead
1.because you feel good
2.suckers always lose more when they are trying to catch up
3.it is usually time to quit at any form of gambling when you are behind,and play progressively higher when you are ahead
4.disregard this rule if you are playing Jack Cooney,he might let you win in order to
set the hook
5.Don't expect everyone of acting or being Jack Cooney,if that were the case
you should take up needle point

What you say here isn't wrong, but you don't double the bet(talking about gambling in general, not pool specifically).

You set up a tiered structure of win/loss. You have a set amount that you are willing to lose AND a set amount that you are willing to win. I don't mean you should quit when on a winning streak and that's where the tiered structure comes in.

Every time you hit a tier of winning, you put a certain amount of the winnings away and that's no longer available for this session. Then you set another plateau that will amount to putting more of the winnings aside.

Otherwise you will be a loser when gambling in general, because eventually you lose a double or nothing and you end up with nothing.

Jaden

ScottyDzntKnow · Feb 22, 2015

The Saw said:
Right. You can't be afraid to take off scores..... People underestimate the power of other people chasing their own money.

One time after I first started playing I was giving a regular customer the 7, races to 7 for $50, I was up 6 sets @ $300. He said that he had would play one last set for the $300, I said "Heads!". He wins the flip, breaks and runs the set out on me!!!! He either made the 7 or 9 on the break or made a combo on them all 7 games. Never even made a shot he intended, slopped in every ball, the whole set took less than 15 minutes.

This thread has taught me one thing for sure! I wouldn't gamble with 91% of the people on this thread. My mentors would blacklist me if I didn't bet double the money at breaking even. If I beat a guy 4 sets and I lose the 5th, you can guarantee I'm playing the 6th set for the same bet.

KRJ · Feb 22, 2015

BRussell said:
Let's be honest though, Martingale isn't a betting system, it's a "betting system." Tight-aggressive or loose-aggressive, those are betting strategies or systems. Martingale is only a system for suckers to lose even more money, like "the more you play the more you win" is a betting system.

Yep, folks went broke using the Martingale system, and nobody ever got rich doing it. So, the moral of the story, is let someone do double or nothing a few times, cause you can win BIG, but risk nothing.

The other guy has everything to lose, with no chance of winning a dime. Why let the fish off the hook

Quit when you feel like you are running out of gas

pt109 · Feb 22, 2015

Jaden said:
What you say here isn't wrong, but you don't double the bet(talking about gambling in general, not pool specifically).

You set up a tiered structure of win/loss. You have a set amount that you are willing to lose AND a set amount that you are willing to win. I don't mean you should quit when on a winning streak and that's where the tiered structure comes in.

Every time you hit a tier of winning, you put a certain amount of the winnings away and that's no longer available for this session. Then you set another plateau that will amount to putting more of the winnings aside.

Otherwise you will be a loser when gambling in general, because eventually you lose a double or nothing and you end up with nothing.

Jaden

As usual, a thoughtful post by Jaden.

I'm a winner over the years at casino blackjack...not a lot..$10,000?
But I take some satisfaction that if everybody played like me..
...the casinos would get rid of the tables.

I lock up in increments...so I can lose back only so much...
...and I press when I'm winning.

..plus, I keep track of the cards...will not play with a perpetual shuffler.

But in pool, I'll let them bet what they're stuck.....
...if there is lots of cash on the other side.
If there is not a lot of money to be won....
...he can get out the way he got in.

And the dough has to be on the light-shade.....
...it's amazing how many high-rollers there are...when they wanna
play on credit.

genomachino · Feb 22, 2015

Just get the cash

ktrepal85 said:
Does anyone else find it annoying when people continually want to double the bet every time they lose a close set?

-set 1 bet: $20...win (up $20)
-set 2 bet: $40...win (up $60)
-set 3 bet: $60...loss (back to even)

They always make me feel bad b/c im basically playing with free money in the last set but since the game is close they know im eventually going to lose and we end up breaking even when technically I won 2 out of 3 sets.

Maybe I'm just a sucker and I need to stand my ground more. What do you guys think?

Win the first 2 and you are probably the favorite. Bet it all and just take it down. If your oppenent keeps doing it each time you play you got to like it.

KRJ · Feb 22, 2015

A couple of weeks ago, I'm playing a guy on my team after league is over. We are playing 1pckt. This guy should be giving me 8-6. We've never gambled before, but we decide to play for $5 a game. Ok, I'm not asking for a spot for $5.

He wins the first two, I win one, and he wins one. So, he's up $10. Getting late, and say, last game for $10. He says, nah, you gotta win the money the same way you lost the money. I kinda laughed... So, I say, oh, so you don't wanna play for $50.

Now, his ears perk up. $50 he says, yeah, I'll play for $50. I said no, you gottaa win it like you did before, one fiver at a time. He just laughed. So, he then says, OK, play it for $10, double or nothing.

I mean, even in a game when he's got the best of it, he was a little afraid to roll the dice for double or nothing. He should've JUMPED on that immediately. Personally, I just didn't want to break a $20 cause I knew what was in my pocket. Thus, he wins the $20 or gets Zip.

edep12 · Feb 22, 2015

pt109 said:
As usual, a thoughtful post by Jaden.

I'm a winner over the years at casino blackjack...not a lot..$10,000?
But I take some satisfaction that if everybody played like me..
...the casinos would get rid of the tables.

I lock up in increments...so I can lose back only so much...
...and I press when I'm winning.

..plus, I keep track of the cards...will not play with a perpetual shuffler.

But in pool, I'll let them bet what they're stuck.....
...if there is lots of cash on the other side.
If there is not a lot of money to be won....
...he can get out the way he got in.

And the dough has to be on the light-shade.....
...it's amazing how many high-rollers there are...when they wanna
play on credit.

Funny you bring up blackjack because the martingale betting system people keep discussing is the reason there are table limits in casinos. If you ever see a BJ game without a table limit (you won't) then that's the betting strategy you should employ. Let's say you start betting $25 a hand. If you lose you double your bet until you win, then it's back to $25. That way you are guaranteed to keep all the $25 bets you win (no splitting/doubling, etc. of course). If there is a table limit (and, again, there will be specifically to counteract this strategy) then once you lose enough hands in a row to exceed the table limit, you are screwed.

KRJ · Feb 22, 2015

edep12 said:
Funny you bring up blackjack because the martingale betting system people keep discussing is the reason there are table limits in casinos. If you ever see a BJ game without a table limit (you won't) then that's the betting strategy you should employ. Let's say you start betting $25 a hand. If you lose you double your bet until you win, then it's back to $25. That way you are guaranteed to keep all the $25 bets you win (no splitting/doubling, etc. of course). If there is a table limit (and, again, there will be specifically to counteract this strategy) then once you lose enough hands in a row to exceed the table limit, you are screwed.

With or without a table limit, you are screwed even contemplating using that system. Dead in the water. Cause, unless you brought a STACK of cash, you are gonna go broke soon. I can't imagine a worse way to gamble at blackjack.

BRussell · Feb 22, 2015

ChicagoRJ said:
Without a table limit, you are screwed even contemplating using that system. Dead in the water. Cause, unless you brought a STACK of cash, you are gonna go broke soon. I can't imagine a worse way to gamble at blackjack.

Yeah can you imagine how much the house would love it if players used that system.

TX Poolnut · Feb 22, 2015

ChicagoRJ said:
Without a table limit, you are screwed even contemplating using that system. Dead in the water. Cause, unless you brought a STACK of cash, you are gonna go broke soon. I can't imagine a worse way to gamble at blackjack.

I took 400 dollars to the 5 dollar craps tables at Coushatta in Louisiana. I used a very slow martingale and in 9 hours walked out with 5,100 dollars. I took one break to eat dinner. I couldn't believe how easy it seemed. I got to the last double up several times but always lucked out.

Later that year I found myself at a casino in Canada and bellied up to the 5 dollar craps with 500 dollars. I didn't get through 20 minutes and was busted using the exact same strategy.

The martingale is dangerous. I haven't been back to Coushatta.

KRJ · Feb 22, 2015

BRussell said:
Yeah can you imagine how much the house would love it if players used that system.

I believe they get the free rooms

Rambow · Feb 24, 2015

In my opinion, just because you won 2 out of 3 sets doesn't mean you deserve to come out ahead .You didn't earn anything yet. One reason a guy raises the bet is to put a little pressure on you. If you can't play well under pressure, then you should lose. Many people play great for nothing, but so what ? You have to play your best all the time if you gamble at pool. Also, you're not obligated to accept raising the bet every time an opponent asks, But as long as he pays after set and still has money, I think it's appropriate to give him a chance. You have nothing to lose but time, and he has a lot to lose. Also I have never quit on a guy while ahead. The game's only over when he says so. Especially if your playing with friends. You have to show class. It's not all about taking his cash.
I once had a guy down several hundreds after several hours,
and he was almost broke. I said almost . With the little he had left, he came back and crushed me. I respect him for that. I couldn't finish him off and deserved to lose on that day. That's what's it about. Winning some, and losing some , but doing it with class .

Gangplank · Feb 24, 2015

Rambow said:
In my opinion, just because you won 2 out of 3 sets doesn't mean you deserve to come out ahead .You didn't earn anything yet. One reason a guy raises the bet is to put a little pressure on you. If you can't play well under pressure, then you should lose. Many people play great for nothing, but so what ? You have to play your best all the time if you gamble at pool. Also, you're not obligated to accept raising the bet every time an opponent asks, But as long as he pays after set and still has money, I think it's appropriate to give him a chance. You have nothing to lose but time, and he has a lot to lose. Also I have never quit on a guy while ahead. The game's only over when he says so. Especially if your playing with friends. You have to show class. It's not all about taking his cash.
I once had a guy down several hundreds after several hours,
and he was almost broke. I said almost . With the little he had left, he came back and crushed me. I respect him for that. I couldn't finish him off and deserved to lose on that day. That's what's it about. Winning some, and losing some , but doing it with class .

Agree. It's as if Fast Eddie Felson said it himself. :-D

Texdance · Feb 25, 2015

Solomon said:
$20,971,520 to be exact. I need to quit my job and become a cook!

No, it was only $10,485,760, twenty losses, not 21.

The cook wrote a check for his loss.

Like, man, who carries ten mil in cash?.

The janitor, name of Honest Abe, vouched for the check. He thought the cook owed ten dollars and forty eight cents.

The winner payed the time, AND SINCE IT WAS SUCH A BIG SCORE, HE DIDN'T MIND FORKING OVER WHEN THE COOK PUT THE BITE ON HIM FOR TWO GRAND.

It's the dying truth, my cousin's girlfriend's other boyfriend swears he was there and saw the whole thing

deanoc · Feb 25, 2015

t nothing important

Doubling the bet...trap?

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