I don't consider pool on a bar table to be pool

Colonel

Raised by Wolves in a Pool Hall
Silver Member
This statement makes me wonder how many pairs of dentures have been left on the rail of a hall's table. How many diapers have been rubbing up against it. No offense, of course, but my idea of atmosphere does not include the smell of mothballs and dead skin. Don't even get me started on wondering how many people have taken their last breath on those tables. Yeah, then to top it off, they want $10/hr or more for something that last saw professional hands a decade ago? I'd rather play at the bar with people whose idea of a fun game doesn't involve deliberation for ten minutes between shots. I also get a kick out of how many "big table" players have a hard time beating those lesser barbox players.


Let me make an observation here. When these threads about bar boxes come up, invariably there is a large group of people that get incensed, feeling their skills & abilities at this game are being questioned because they play on boxes & feel they are being stigmatized because of it.

The better portion of these people lament that a box is all they have access to & many like myself that have constant access to large tracks have expressed our sympathies. Inevitably the threads turn to reasons being given, halls with large tracks closing everywhere because of lack of interest in this sport lead to lack of business & making financially unviable for these large halls to stay open that have big tracks. That because of that its terrible that anyone should condemn the Fisher Price table set because these players & boxes are keeping the game alive.

You're always one of the first to state your indignation at what you are feel are aspersions cast about boxes & those that play on them. Then there's obligatory re-telling of the tale of how you've placed Diamond boxes in the bar you frequent, how this has helped pool by people in your bar being drawn to pool by these beautiful boxes that replaced the raggedy tables that were there previously & bringing new people to the game. Even in this thread you purport how the box can "keep pool alive until it can be something more".

I truly do feel for those that don't have a choice to play on a large track due to lack of access in their locales. Like many here in these threads I lament every hall that closes taking big tracks away from enthusiasts, leaving them no choice but a box, it is a sad thing, the current state of pool.

Having said all that I'll ask you this, What's your excuse? As stated many don't have access to anything else, others are watching the few options they had go away as halls close leaving boxes as the only option. Then there's others like you. You live in Portland right? You have a number of options there, a few halls with big tables, some like Sam's that have been around since the 60's, the type of place so many lament closing due to lack of support. Do you support those halls, make the effort to encourage others in your area to support them? I don't think so, instead of feeling fortunate to have the options so many in these threads that have no option would love to have but don't. No, you promote boxes, entreat people to play on them, frequent the bar you put them in & take business & support away from these other large table halls, perhaps helping in their demise. In your post I quoted you deride these halls & tables & speak of how you prefer your bar & your box. In your MANY posts about your little bar you purport how you're "keeping it alive". When you have options to support these halls and don't, instead preferring your bar and your box I consider you and those like you to be part of the problem, you're what many here decry, the social bar banger, the reason large halls are closing, you could support the game & these halls & the big table game but choose the box, not because you don't have any choice, but because the toy track is your favorite choice. Everyone is free to choose what they like but please spare us the indignation. Last I passed through you could get a drink at Sam's or Uptown so it's not that, it's that they don't have the toy tracks you seemingly prefer.
 

spartan

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Mark Griffin is an icon of the game and we all appreciate his efforts but as much as I love to watch world class pool I will not be going to the pro CSI events at the Rio, although it's an easy drive for me since I live in Phoenix, because I can't stand pro level players playing on a seven foot table. To me this is a joke. The ability to shoot at distance is what separates the men from the boys. Make that 12 foot shot on the Bigfoot pal, let me see what you've got.

It's either break and run out or break and be snookered. Why is Efren not the dominate force he used to be, because it can't make the long ball anymore on a consistent basis. That's what pool is all about.

How do others feel about this? My view is 9 foot is fine, 10 foot even better.

Yes Agree. You are brave man for starting this thread. 7 footers are for bar recreational social players like me. They are not for pros. If I can play even with pros playing on baby tables, I would lug around a 1 foot table to practise during my free time :grin-square:
 

Banks

Banned
Let me make an observation here. When these threads about bar boxes come up, invariably there is a large group of people that get incensed, feeling their skills & abilities at this game are being questioned because they play on boxes & feel they are being stigmatized because of it.

The better portion of these people lament that a box is all they have access to & many like myself that have constant access to large tracks have expressed our sympathies. Inevitably the threads turn to reasons being given, halls with large tracks closing everywhere because of lack of interest in this sport lead to lack of business & making financially unviable for these large halls to stay open that have big tracks. That because of that its terrible that anyone should condemn the Fisher Price table set because these players & boxes are keeping the game alive.

You're always one of the first to state your indignation at what you are feel are aspersions cast about boxes & those that play on them. Then there's obligatory re-telling of the tale of how you've placed Diamond boxes in the bar you frequent, how this has helped pool by people in your bar being drawn to pool by these beautiful boxes that replaced the raggedy tables that were there previously & bringing new people to the game. Even in this thread you purport how the box can "keep pool alive until it can be something more".

I truly do feel for those that don't have a choice to play on a large track due to lack of access in their locales. Like many here in these threads I lament every hall that closes taking big tracks away from enthusiasts, leaving them no choice but a box, it is a sad thing, the current state of pool.

Having said all that I'll ask you this, What's your excuse? As stated many don't have access to anything else, others are watching the few options they had go away as halls close leaving boxes as the only option. Then there's others like you. You live in Portland right? You have a number of options there, a few halls with big tables, some like Sam's that have been around since the 60's, the type of place so many lament closing due to lack of support. Do you support those halls, make the effort to encourage others in your area to support them? I don't think so, instead of feeling fortunate to have the options so many in these threads that have no option would love to have but don't. No, you promote boxes, entreat people to play on them, frequent the bar you put them in & take business & support away from these other large table halls, perhaps helping in their demise. In your post I quoted you deride these halls & tables & speak of how you prefer your bar & your box. In your MANY posts about your little bar you purport how you're "keeping it alive". When you have options to support these halls and don't, instead preferring your bar and your box I consider you and those like you to be part of the problem, you're what many here decry, the social bar banger, the reason large halls are closing, you could support the game & these halls & the big table game but choose the box, not because you don't have any choice, but because the toy track is your favorite choice. Everyone is free to choose what they like but please spare us the indignation. Last I passed through you could get a drink at Sam's or Uptown so it's not that, it's that they don't have the toy tracks you seemingly prefer.

Just to keep you up to date, i now have four locations with many more in the works.

I've said many times that the state of the tables and the pricing are big inhibitors to going to the halls. Location is another issue, as is atmosphere. I've played at Sam's before and it was alright, but it's not stumble distance, nor is it something i could afford regularly.

The argument that you're presenting is that people should support it just because. Well, that's how places shut down. If they rely on pity or "just because" business, they're screwed.

I don't care what you think of it, but every time you and others cast these aspersions and insinuate that the customers and games are beneath you, all i hear is some lame, elitist attitude. It's more than welcome to disappear along with the halls that haven't changed since the 50's. If you also think some bar banger can't hang with most of the people in those places, you'd be wrong again. Stop pretending that the halls are filled with A players.

So, let me ask you.. what the heck are you doing to grow and save your beloved real pool, besides insulting league players, barboxes and other such fun stuff?
 

Ak147

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Even though pool pro's are over skilled for bar box they will play where the money is. Given it is so hard to find now a days.

I certainly don't like to watch pro playing on bar box.

Question should be - Given a choice would you prefer to play 7,9,10 footer?

My preference would be 9/10 ft as it is sort of benchmark to judge my game.

If I don't have choice I can play on anything. In office I play on 6ft table with cues without tip since i love the game ;-) Something better than nothing.
 

Gangplank

Registered
The question as orig. posed was is pool on a bar box 7' table pool. Which is like asking whether white zin is considered wine. The answer has to be yes. You might think it tastes aweful (and are probably right) but it still sells every night at many or most restaurants around the US.

You might not think that it belongs in a wine competition, but they still give medals for it and my guess is that a wine pro has to know what it taste like if properly made (if such a concept exists).

You don't have to like bar box zin. You don't have to play it or give a crap about it, but the fact is its there. You can be a pool aficionado (or pool snob) and prefer one type of table, cloth, ball over another. Are you the type who won't play with a house cue even if it's straight? Yep, you might be a pool snob.
 

Mikey8717

Registered
i feel that pool is pool no matter what the size of the table. yes 9 and 10 foot require more accuracy but 7 sevens require more ball control to stay in shape, it can get messy. All in all its a great game and seeing the pros play on a 7 may be boring but hey thats cause they make it look so easy. I think it might be even harder just on different attributes like cue ball control, stroke, staying in line, pattern choice, and offense vs defense. Just MHO of when its talked about different sizes of tables. but when it comes down to it i will say that i have an easier time with the 7's because i shoot mainly on the 9's. its all in the shooter.
 

Push&Pool

Professional Banger
Silver Member
Lol.
I understand your (our) love of the game, however, the game played on bar tables by the masses is not the game we grew up loving and never will be. I wish I was wrong.

People asking for stats comparing 7' and 9' have obviously never played on a 9' table.

You don't have to play it. You don't have to watch. Heck, you don't even have to like it or consider it real pool. But don't expect us bar players to give up on the game and let it die because you don't accept our way of playing.

Unlike you, I grew up on bar boxes. The beauty of pool I know is playing the game while joking around and having fun with friends. It's about meeting new people and getting to know countless other players, hearing their stories and playing against them day after day, each time trying to perform better than the day before. It's about drinking good beer and listening to your favorite rock tracks in between innings. Facing bad equipment sometimes and still winning your games. Shots so powerful they pocket 4 balls in 4 different pockets. Adapting to different rules and doing your best even against vastly superior opponents.

If I had to choose, I'd always pick a box before the 9 footer. And yes, I did spend a certain amount of time on the big table. My answer remains the same.

Let me make an observation here. When these threads about bar boxes come up, invariably there is a large group of people that get incensed, feeling their skills & abilities at this game are being questioned because they play on boxes & feel they are being stigmatized because of it.

The better portion of these people lament that a box is all they have access to & many like myself that have constant access to large tracks have expressed our sympathies. Inevitably the threads turn to reasons being given, halls with large tracks closing everywhere because of lack of interest in this sport lead to lack of business & making financially unviable for these large halls to stay open that have big tracks. That because of that its terrible that anyone should condemn the Fisher Price table set because these players & boxes are keeping the game alive.

You're always one of the first to state your indignation at what you are feel are aspersions cast about boxes & those that play on them. Then there's obligatory re-telling of the tale of how you've placed Diamond boxes in the bar you frequent, how this has helped pool by people in your bar being drawn to pool by these beautiful boxes that replaced the raggedy tables that were there previously & bringing new people to the game. Even in this thread you purport how the box can "keep pool alive until it can be something more".

I truly do feel for those that don't have a choice to play on a large track due to lack of access in their locales. Like many here in these threads I lament every hall that closes taking big tracks away from enthusiasts, leaving them no choice but a box, it is a sad thing, the current state of pool.

Having said all that I'll ask you this, What's your excuse? As stated many don't have access to anything else, others are watching the few options they had go away as halls close leaving boxes as the only option. Then there's others like you. You live in Portland right? You have a number of options there, a few halls with big tables, some like Sam's that have been around since the 60's, the type of place so many lament closing due to lack of support. Do you support those halls, make the effort to encourage others in your area to support them? I don't think so, instead of feeling fortunate to have the options so many in these threads that have no option would love to have but don't. No, you promote boxes, entreat people to play on them, frequent the bar you put them in & take business & support away from these other large table halls, perhaps helping in their demise. In your post I quoted you deride these halls & tables & speak of how you prefer your bar & your box. In your MANY posts about your little bar you purport how you're "keeping it alive". When you have options to support these halls and don't, instead preferring your bar and your box I consider you and those like you to be part of the problem, you're what many here decry, the social bar banger, the reason large halls are closing, you could support the game & these halls & the big table game but choose the box, not because you don't have any choice, but because the toy track is your favorite choice. Everyone is free to choose what they like but please spare us the indignation. Last I passed through you could get a drink at Sam's or Uptown so it's not that, it's that they don't have the toy tracks you seemingly prefer.

If he, or anyone else really, prefers the box, he is still supporting pool. It's every player's own choice where they play. You have no right to question it, let alone insult the person.
 

jasonlaus

Rep for Smorg
Silver Member
You don't have to play it. You don't have to watch. Heck, you don't even have to like it or consider it real pool. But don't expect us bar players to give up on the game and let it die because you don't accept our way of playing.

Unlike you, I grew up on bar boxes. The beauty of pool I know is playing the game while joking around and having fun with friends. It's about meeting new people and getting to know countless other players, hearing their stories and playing against them day after day, each time trying to perform better than the day before. It's about drinking good beer and listening to your favorite rock tracks in between innings. Facing bad equipment sometimes and still winning your games. Shots so powerful they pocket 4 balls in 4 different pockets. Adapting to different rules and doing your best even against vastly superior opponents.

If I had to choose, I'd always pick a box before the 9 footer. And yes, I did spend a certain amount of time on the big table. My answer remains the same.



If he, or anyone else really, prefers the box, he is still supporting pool. It's every player's own choice where they play. You have no right to question it, let alone insult the person.

I also had a BB at home growing up, but as soon as I was old enough to get into the poolroom with 9'ers that's where I was at all the time.
9's are WAY more challenging than BB's, and once again, position play is a joke on a BB.

I'm not saying pool on a BB isn't fun, I'm saying it isn't the same and never will be.
No, I'm not a pro, but I want to play on tuff equipment and a BB isn't it. That's why I have a 10' with ~ 4 1/8 pockets at home.
I enjoy the game enough that I wouldn't care if nobody else in the world played pool, I've spent most of my time practicing/playing alone anyway.
I do love the poolhall atmosphere and all the "characters" in it much more than the bar. If you've never been in a "real" poolhall you're really missing out.
 

Straightpool_99

I see dead balls
Silver Member
This statement makes me wonder how many pairs of dentures have been left on the rail of a hall's table. Never seen that, then again even though there are a few older gentlemen in our pool hall, none have dentures (that I know of) How many diapers have been rubbing up against it. I don't know, but I wouldn't think too many. Then again diapers are inside the pants, so who cares? No offense, of course, but my idea of atmosphere does not include the smell of mothballs and dead skin. That would be the library or retirement homes you are thinking of.. Don't even get me started on wondering how many people have taken their last breath on those tables. Again, my pool hall doesn't have as many old people as your halls, apperantly. There is a "sport" atmosphere and I'd guess the average age to be about 35-40 with both kids and older people. People of all skill levels play there. Yeah, then to top it off, they want $10/hr or more for something that last saw professional hands a decade ago? We have at least two open speed (Euro tour) regulars, but no professionals. There are no professionals in my country. You'd have to go to Germany to see professionals (plural). Some say that the US only have a handful of professionals, do they play at your bar? Then again how many bars have professionals playing regularly? I'd rather play at the bar with people whose idea of a fun game doesn't involve deliberation for ten minutes between shots. I'd rather play in a pool hall where people care about the game, instead of drinking, starting fights etc. I also like for my opponents to know the real rules of the game instead of bullshit they made up on the spot.. .Besides when I have the time I like to stop by the pool hall every day, at least for a short session. I don't want to go to a bar every day.... I also get a kick out of how many "big table" players have a hard time beating those lesser barbox players. Ronny O'Sullivan didn't do to well in the IPT, either, but I bet he didn't dedicate a lot of time to understand the differences between the tables. When you're out of your element it is harder to perform. Sure if a good big table player goes to a small table he may lose some of the time, but take a guy that only plays on 7 foot table to a big track and see what happens... If the big table guys specialized in playing the bar tables, the so called "bar table experts" would be in for a brutal beating, most of the time. And usually when there is a bar box championship, who ends up on top? Dennis Orcullo, Shane Van Boening etc...

........................
 
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Pete

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I must say that while scouring youtube for matches to watch, I generally skip over any barbox matches because it is just not that fun to watch.

On the flipside though, I find playing pool on 7ft tables to be very enjoyable.


Me too.

It isn't the same game. I remember seeing a guy run a 3 pack via youtube and he was only shot making. It's not the same thing IMHO or NSHO...
 

ARCHY2

Registered
Thoughts of this old man.

I play in a couple of rural leagues. After playing all these years I find with exception of 2 - 8 ft tables in local bars no way to play on the standard and larger size tables. A REAL FACT NO 9 or 10 footers within reasonable distance. No one around here really wants to spend hours traveling and gas $ just to screw around on the reg sizes. The terrible part about the bar tables I have access to is that most are ill maintained, and abused vigorously. Almost all are owned and cleaned out of cash by local vendors of juke boxes, etc etc bar type electronic junk. We had a local tourney last week wher they brought ihn 3 tables to use along with the house table. Each was more horrible then the other. One had extremely large corner pockets and tiny tiny / impossible side pockets - one had so many different rolls that the slate must have been ground may different ways on purpose - another had tiny corner pockets with tits that went every which way. The house table hadn't been reclothed for about 5 years. Some turkeys said - oh well that evens out the game for poor players and the girls. DUHHHHH Bar box on a good table - good condition throughout can be a plaesure and very challenging. NOT POSSIBLE HERE. Sadly and I pressume in many many other places.
 

philly

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The OP and anyone else that won't play in BB tournaments, they better get a new hobby/sport, because the 7' table is going to be 95% of tournaments in the states.

If they want to do something, make 7' tables harder like black ball or Chinese 8 ball. But of course like everything else in pool, in will wait too long or never do it. Now is the perfect time for someone to come out with a harder 7' table. Johnnyt


I can make a 7 footer harder simply by making it a 9 footer.
 

KRJ

Support UKRAINE
Silver Member
Me too.

It isn't the same game. I remember seeing a guy run a 3 pack via youtube and he was only shot making. It's not the same thing IMHO or NSHO...

Depends on the type of table. But then again, I've seen guys string 3 packs all the time on 9 foot tables too. Actually, shot makers would have more trouble because of the traffic to navigate. Shot makers usually have a straight stroke, but speed, spin and position are another story.

I find 9's a little easier to play on because less traffic to move through. Obviously, someone without a very good stroke is gonna run into more problems on a 9 than a 7. Though, after 50 the eyes are not the same as they use to be, so I'm digging the 7 footers more now ;) Still got a niner in the basement though.
 

actionplayer

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The question as orig. posed was is pool on a bar box 7' table pool. Which is like asking whether white zin is considered wine. The answer has to be yes. You might think it tastes aweful (and are probably right) but it still sells every night at many or most restaurants around the US.

You might not think that it belongs in a wine competition, but they still give medals for it and my guess is that a wine pro has to know what it taste like if properly made (if such a concept exists).

You don't have to like bar box zin. You don't have to play it or give a crap about it, but the fact is its there. You can be a pool aficionado (or pool snob) and prefer one type of table, cloth, ball over another. Are you the type who won't play with a house cue even if it's straight? Yep, you might be a pool snob.


what a great example
nail on the head
 

Blaine B.

Clueless
Silver Member
So what do I have to do to a real pool player? I've bought real cues real cases but league is all I play. Can't do anymore since no pool hall is within an hour from me. Tired of hearing this and that about bar box league players we put in work time and money also just for what someone saying "oh you're just a league player" cmon only way it will grow is everyone caring about the game 7' 8' 9' 10' all of it

Cheers!

P.S. This part is because there is a ridiculous post length minimum.
 

Island Drive

Otto/Dads College Roommate/Cleveland Browns
Silver Member
Mark Griffin is an icon of the game and we all appreciate his efforts but as much as I love to watch world class pool I will not be going to the pro CSI events at the Rio, although it's an easy drive for me since I live in Phoenix, because I can't stand pro level players playing on a seven foot table. To me this is a joke. The ability to shoot at distance is what separates the men from the boys. Make that 12 foot shot on the Bigfoot pal, let me see what you've got.

It's either break and run out or break and be snookered. Why is Efren not the dominate force he used to be, because it can't make the long ball anymore on a consistent basis. That's what pool is all about.

How do others feel about this? My view is 9 foot is fine, 10 foot even better.


I'm sure Snooker players at your level, feel the same way about 9 and 10 foot pool tables.
 
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