Valley rails and side pocket: To fold or not to fold?

trentfromtoledo

8onthebreaktoledo
Silver Member
Just got 12 sets of Penguin replacement rails for valley bar tables. Already covered them and they all came out very nice.

Who uses the fold method on side pockets and who uses the no fold method on the side pockets? WHY?

Trent from Toledo:thumbup:
 

bradsh98

Bradshaw Billiard Service
Silver Member
I always fold the side pocket, when using worsted cloth. When using non-worsted cloth, I may reluctantly eliminate the fold, if requested to do so.

If you don't fold the cloth, it puts a lot of stress on the nose of the cushion and pocket facing. As a result, the 'points' of the pocket are deformed. Brand new Valley rails will have badly rounded side pocket 'points', from stretching the cloth too tight. This is an effect that cannot be reversed, even if the rails are later covered with a fold.
 

trentfromtoledo

8onthebreaktoledo
Silver Member
I always fold the side pocket, when using worsted cloth. When using non-worsted cloth, I may reluctantly eliminate the fold, if requested to do so.

If you don't fold the cloth, it puts a lot of stress on the nose of the cushion and pocket facing. As a result, the 'points' of the pocket are deformed. Brand new Valley rails will have badly rounded side pocket 'points', from stretching the cloth too tight. This is an effect that cannot be reversed, even if the rails are later covered with a fold.

Always great input!!

I did them without the fold and they came out great. I will post some pics when I get to my shop. A little rounded, but, no big deal. Not pro cut pockets and just for bangers/ leagues. Tables are going to be 100% better than they were.Trying out that CPBA Worsted Cloth. 30 years of adhesive to remove on each slate and releveling all of the tables. Adding new gully tracks, pocket liners and rail bolts. Tables will now be serviceable for the future!

Trent from Toledo
 

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
I refuse to do the no fold side pockets, if that's what the bar wants, then they can call someone else.
 

BrownDawg

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Not sure why the King would leave a location just because they didn’t want their rails folded like a Christmas present?
A brand new Valley has no folds. You have to fold a worsted cloth, so if Diamonds didn’t come with worsted cloth I would think they also would come with no folds.
Most people probably don’t even notice.
 

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Mike81

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I refuse to do the no fold side pockets, if that's what the bar wants, then they can call someone else.

I’m not sure of the fold or no fold methods as I don’t know crap about pool tables but I had a set of ridgebacks covered and the guy did a great job with one exception, the fold at the side pockets was thicker than the relief cut in the back of the wood. The rails didn’t seat completely against the frame work of the valley table at the side pockets. It sounded terrible. So I did the best I could to undo his thick folds till the rails were seated correctly and wow what a difference it made. I now notice so many bar tables that are bulged out around the side pockets.
 

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
Not sure why the King would leave a location just because they didn’t want their rails folded like a Christmas present?
A brand new Valley has no folds. You have to fold a worsted cloth, so if Diamonds didn’t come with worsted cloth I would think they also would come with no folds.
Most people probably don’t even notice.

You do know the Diamond rails have feather strips holding the cloth tucked in on the top of the rail....right, just like a Gold Crown rail? I don't like the no fold method because it distorts the profile of the side pockets, and wears through the cloth on the points of the side pockets over time as well. Don't get me wrong, I'm very capable of recovering the rails without the folds, I just don't like the finished product. My folds are tight as hell, never come loose, and my cloth is not.bunched up on the back of the rails. When ever you show pictures of the cloth look on the front side of the rails, the finished look.....why don't you go ahead and show the stapled side as well😎
 

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
Not sure why the King would leave a location just because they didn’t want their rails folded like a Christmas present?
A brand new Valley has no folds. You have to fold a worsted cloth, so if Diamonds didn’t come with worsted cloth I would think they also would come with no folds.
Most people probably don’t even notice.

I also don't use Mercury Ultra cloth or any other cheap cloth because it stretches so easy, like pantyhose. So I guess you can put me down on the books saying I won't install cheap cloth on someone's table if I don't support the use of the cloth....even if I'm paid to do so.
 

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
I also won't work on cheap junk pool tables just to make a dollar, like Sears, Costco, and a lot of other tables sold.
 

BrownDawg

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Okay King, here’s the pic you requested. Of course it’s going to be more bunched up and have more staples than your “hospital fold”, you have to stretch it more! Now post your backside pic of the no fold method.

Don’t kid yourself, feather strip rails can also be done in the no fold method. Would you like to see a pic of that? Don’t stretch it so much you deform the point.
 

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BrownDawg

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Here’s a table that has seen some use. Profile look distorted to you?
 

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BrownDawg

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I also don't use Mercury Ultra cloth or any other cheap cloth because it stretches so easy, like pantyhose. So I guess you can put me down on the books saying I won't install cheap cloth on someone's table if I don't support the use of the cloth....even if I'm paid to do so.

Ouch, what a cut, what a burn.

Not every location warrants the best cloth.
 

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
Okay King, here’s the pic you requested. Of course it’s going to be more bunched up and have more staples than your “hospital fold”, you have to stretch it more! Now post your backside pic of the no fold method.

Don’t kid yourself, feather strip rails can also be done in the no fold method. Would you like to see a pic of that? Don’t stretch it so much you deform the point.

Told you, I refuse to not fold the pocket!!
 

BrownDawg

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Most of you have probably seen this method before. This is how I first learned from an old timer. I’ve tried to replicate it here in these pics. If done right it holds up well. It’s like a fold but only two layers instead of three.
 

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trentfromtoledo

8onthebreaktoledo
Silver Member
up in Maine working, will post my Penguin rail upholstery when I get home next week!

Trent from Toledo:thumbup:
 

trentfromtoledo

8onthebreaktoledo
Silver Member
Got 4 of the tables done. New Penguin rails and CPBA Worsted Cloth. Play pretty good for Valleys

Trent from Toledo
 

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