Opinions on this piece of wood?

JC

Coos Cues
I have admired pomelle sapele cues I have seen and am thinking about buying this piece of wood but it will yield more than I really need.

I would like some opinions about this as to whether this looks like $18 a square wood? Or is this wood to be found at a better price generally?

Thanks

JC

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Michael Webb

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I like the side opposite the knot. Your picture's reminded me. I looked for more Sapele a couple of times. Usually just found it in veneer. Quite expensive. I have only done one cue with it to date.
 
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ELBeau

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I"m with Mike; I think you're going to be disappointed in the yield from this board if you're looking for 18" turning stock with consistent figure, but the side opposite the knot looks like you could slice off one or two squares.
 
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JoeyInCali

Maker of Joey Bautista Cues
Silver Member
Looks like it has a knot on one side. What size ?
You might have one ok piece. The rest are ring or point stock material at best .
Good thick pieces are tough to find.
I might have to cross-laminate mine .
 

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Michael Webb

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Looks like it has a knot on one side. What size ?
You might have one ok piece. The rest are ring or point stock material at best .
Good thick pieces are tough to find.
I might have to cross-laminate mine .


I like the top and bottom of yours.
 

HQueen

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Some guys I used to work for have a millwork shop. Recently they received a board of Sapele 2” x 7” x 14’ heavily figured, the entire board. I have been wanting them to sell me the board but they just laughed and said yeah, right.

Now they want me to do some CNC work for them. I said I don’t want cash. I want part of the board. Will post some pictures when I get it.
 

JC

Coos Cues
Looks like it has a knot on one side. What size ?
You might have one ok piece. The rest are ring or point stock material at best .
Good thick pieces are tough to find.
I might have to cross-laminate mine .

The board is 77"x19-1/2"x1- 9/16.

It's a substantial piece of wood

JC
 

Ssonerai

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I would like some opinions about this as to whether this looks like $18 a square wood? Or is this wood to be found at a better price generally?

If you buy by the 1,000 ft or by the truckload (aprox 7 - 8,000 ft) sapele can probably be had for about $6 -7/ bd ft for 8/4 material. It may or may not include a few boards with pommele or other great figure (IOW, total crapshoot but sometimes you get lucky)

If usual purchase quantity is around 100 ft, the price is probably going to be in the range of $9 - 15/board ft for 8/4 unselected, but sometimes you can go where they stack this stuff out on a rack, and find an interesting piece. Again, still a crapshoot.

If you want selected pommele, it will be necessary to shop where they select it, and the price will be, as you intimate, "priced per board" and the price will tend to be whatever the seller thinks the market will bear for that specific board based on size and figure.

Buying one figured wide board only, something in the range of $15 - $20/board ft does not strike me as out of line. You are competing with the guy who might want it for a bench or table top at that price. Many of us in the business might not pay that without an identified customer, but it could be well "worth" it for the right figure. As others have noted, that specific board does not appear to be highly figured, and there is a lot of waste unless you make multiple piece cored butts with multiple small sleeves and sections. OTOH, that exact figure may well grab you personally.

Cutting it up for pool cue butts, there is a lot of waste around the knotty sections. The most figured wood tends to be around or near knots and defects, and is the most unstable. (It might still be stable enough for cues with good handling or coring, but is less stable than straight grain). Another factor for pool cues is how the material was dried. Fast dried wood will have a lot of stress and you should buy the board and put it in a dry but space but one where the temp and conditions fluctuate, where it will acclimate for a few years, then work it slowly for a cue.

Short answer, is, for personal use it depends how well you like the figure. If you sell cues, it depends how much material costs affect the selling price of your cues. I'm a pro wood-whacker but a hobby cue maker. So if i sell cues, the price i could get doesn't support putting much more than about $80 total materials in a cue. (sell basic cue for 5x materials) It is difficult to make nice cues without about that much in materials value (counting all your waste); though, so that easily does include some moderately expensive wood. If OTOH your cues are collectible, wood price doesn't matter, only quality/uniqueness.

If you see wood you absolutely love at a fair price, grab it. It is not that figured wood is rare, but the figure that "grabs" you might not be seen again when needed. I have found that in common burls & common lumber, waiting is generally better than grabbing if the price seems high. It's like anything, when the "have to have it now" mood wears off, will you still love it in the morning after? I'm lucky that i can grab wood for millwork or furniture projects and use the scrap for cues. Or if i "over pay", know that within 10 years, that board will later seem reasonable priced for some special project. I used to over pay for ebony sometimes. Sure wish "back then" i had over paid for a lot more, lol. :smile:

Sometimes you know in your heart it will be a mistake not to go for it. Other times you know you are just afraid of missing a good deal. Other people can't really help much with that economic equation. Sapele is a commodity wood available in quantity at commodity prices. However, pomelle or other highly figured boards are serendipitous finds usually priced as such. Serendipity and technical chops will determine your success making cues out of it.

smt
 
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Ssonerai

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
PS - it is really difficult to base advice on photos, even pretty good ones. I learned that (again, sigh) :thumbup: when making a recommendation on phenolic tube on here and i am somewhat familiar with phenolic for a number of applications long before cues.

If those are drying/stress checks in "your" board near the knots, the yield could be even lower. Whether the board overall is now in stress, has any honeycomb, or whether it has been age or kiln tempered is unknown. (stress checks near knots are not unusual.) Unfortunately, this calculus ends up being a factor in buying most "interesting wood". Informed guess against some unknowns until the board hits the saw. I'm only trying to mention factors worth looking for, not saying what the usable wood content is, or whether it is or is not worth the price for special figure.

For one thing, not sure what "$18 a square" is. Square inch? ft? meter? or by the board ft basis? (1-9/16" thick x 1 square ft essentially = 6/4 lumber so the total bd ft is 1.5. However, if someone bought 8/4 material and planed it down to 1-9/16" thick, they may still insist on selling it on the original 2" basis and hence 1 square ft = 2 bd ft in their mind) Conversely if it really is for sale for $18/ square ft @ 1-9/16" thick, that equates to only $12/ board ft, for a single select board. Not a terrible price if you love the figure and can use more than 1/2 of it.

smt
 
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Michael Webb

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
PS - it is really difficult to base advice on photos, even pretty good ones. I learned that (again, sigh) :thumbup: when making a recommendation on phenolic tube on here and i am somewhat familiar with phenolic for a number of applications long before cues.

If those are drying/stress checks in "your" board near the knots, the yield could be even lower. Whether the board overall is now in stress, has any honeycomb, or whether it has been age or kiln tempered is unknown. (stress checks near knots are not unusual.) Unfortunately, this calculus ends up being a factor in buying most "interesting wood". Informed guess against some unknowns until the board hits the saw. I'm only trying to mention factors worth looking for, not saying what the usable wood content is, or whether it is or is not worth the price for special figure.

For one thing, not sure what "$18 a square" is. Square inch? ft? meter? or by the board ft basis? (1-9/16" thick x 1 square ft essentially = 6/4 lumber so the total bd ft is 1.5. However, if someone bought 8/4 material and planed it down to 1-9/16" thick, they may still insist on selling it on the original 2" basis and hence 1 square ft = 2 bd ft in their mind) Conversely if it really is for sale for $18/ square ft @ 1-9/16" thick, that equates to only $12/ board ft, for a single select board. Not a terrible price if you love the figure and can use more than 1/2 of it.

smt


Good points. Well said.
 

JC

Coos Cues
PS - it is really difficult to base advice on photos, even pretty good ones. I learned that (again, sigh) :thumbup: when making a recommendation on phenolic tube on here and i am somewhat familiar with phenolic for a number of applications long before cues.

If those are drying/stress checks in "your" board near the knots, the yield could be even lower. Whether the board overall is now in stress, has any honeycomb, or whether it has been age or kiln tempered is unknown. (stress checks near knots are not unusual.) Unfortunately, this calculus ends up being a factor in buying most "interesting wood". Informed guess against some unknowns until the board hits the saw. I'm only trying to mention factors worth looking for, not saying what the usable wood content is, or whether it is or is not worth the price for special figure.

For one thing, not sure what "$18 a square" is. Square inch? ft? meter? or by the board ft basis? (1-9/16" thick x 1 square ft essentially = 6/4 lumber so the total bd ft is 1.5. However, if someone bought 8/4 material and planed it down to 1-9/16" thick, they may still insist on selling it on the original 2" basis and hence 1 square ft = 2 bd ft in their mind) Conversely if it really is for sale for $18/ square ft @ 1-9/16" thick, that equates to only $12/ board ft, for a single select board. Not a terrible price if you love the figure and can use more than 1/2 of it.

smt

A "square" for the purpose of my question is a turning square approx 1.5x1.5" and 18-20 inches long. That seems like a common cue maker term, I may be wrong.

Thanks for the input

JC
 

MVPCues

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Your question shouldn't be whether squares cut from that board are worth 18$ a piece. Your question should be whether it's a good investment of your money.

Are you going to make 48 sapele cues with only about half of them being B grade pomelle and some including knots? If so, it's a good enough price, buy it. Or are you going to make a few cues from the best pieces and have the less figured pieces taking up shelf space for a very long time because you won't be able to resell many of them at that price? How expensive will it be per square then? If that is closer to reality, just buy a few pieces somewhere to have examples in your possession and keep shopping.
 
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