14.1 on DIAMOND 10 FT PRO-AMS at Southern Classic Tunica, MS

FASTEJ · Jun 5, 2012

We are trying a new format for straight pool that I think has never been tried before.

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=277508

The tournament is using the PAY OR PLAY TOURNAMENT FORMAT www.payporplaypool.com

The rules are as follows:

You play the match against another person
Players will Lag for the right to choose who will take their turn first
Each player gets two tries per round, Players takes break ball in hand and shoot until they miss, but players will alternate tries
Players keep each others score, Highest total balls pocketed advances

I think this will put more pressure on players as opposed to other formats that have been used in other 14.1 challenges.

Any comments or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

dmgwalsh · Jun 6, 2012

FASTEJ said:
We are trying a new format for straight pool that I think has never been tried before.

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=277508

The tournament is using the PAY OR PLAY TOURNAMENT FORMAT www.payporplaypool.com
ONE POCKET, STRAIGHT POOL 14.1, and BANKS will use this structure

Level----------Round of-----------Entry Fee
1-------------------512--------------$5
2-------------------256--------------$10
3-------------------128--------------$20
4--------------------64--------------$40
5--------------------32--------------$80
6--------------------16--------------$160
7-------------8 (Quarter-final)---Loser 5th-8th
8-------------4 (Semi-final)------Loser 3rd/4th
9---------------2 (Final)------- Loser 2nd Winner 1st

The rules are as follows:

You play the match against another person
Players will Lag for the right to choose who will take their turn first
Each player gets two tries per round, Players takes break ball in hand and shoot until they miss, but players will alternate tries
Players keep each others score, Highest total balls pocketed advances

I think this will put more pressure on players as opposed to other formats that have been used in other 14.1 challenges.

Any comments or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Nice using a big table.

So is this a tournament? You play another person. Will it be at a set time with a blind draw?

I don't understand what that structure means for entry fees and after you pay your fee what happens.

stevekur1 · Jun 7, 2012

Sounds interesting, but i am a little confuzed as well

are you going to stream the event ?, i think a bunch of us 14.1 fanatics would like to see this.

-Steve

SpiderWebComm · Jun 7, 2012

FASTEJ said:
We are trying a new format for straight pool that I think has never been tried before.

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=277508

The tournament is using the PAY OR PLAY TOURNAMENT FORMAT www.payporplaypool.com

The rules are as follows:

You play the match against another person
Players will Lag for the right to choose who will take their turn first
Each player gets two tries per round, Players takes break ball in hand and shoot until they miss, but players will alternate tries
Players keep each others score, Highest total balls pocketed advances

I think this will put more pressure on players as opposed to other formats that have been used in other 14.1 challenges.

Any comments or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Great idea--- sounds like the 14.1 challenge converted into a tournament. I like it.

iusedtoberich · Jun 7, 2012

There is a poster of Jimmy Caras at Drexeline Billiards in PA, where he spent many years in his retirement days. Jimmy signed it and wrote his world titles on it. It also says something to the affect of he was undefeated on a 5x10, and had I believe the high run on a 5x10. I think I have a pic of the poster I will try to dig up.

Edit: I just looked and I don't have the picture. I will try to get one next time I'm in Philly.

nashville14:1 · Jun 7, 2012

caras 5x10 run,,,,,tunice 14.1

i was lucky to see a caras exhibition at u of miami fl in about 1969. he ran 100+ wearing pretty thick glasses. he said at that time that he still held the hirun on 5x10 300&something as best i remember. does anyone know what spectator seating will be like for 14.1 in tunica. will the 5x10(s) be used for other games too? what days will 14.1 be? i regret that i did not make the short trip to dcc. i thought it would be bleachers with a poor view. then i saw on youtube that it was a small room with viewer very close.
jr

mosconiac · Jun 8, 2012

About 5x10 records...I don't know about Caras, but evidence I have found indicated that Crane ran 309 in 1939 and Mosconi is said to have upped it to 365 at some point.

I am unsure if that is the all-time record or not.

It's hard enough to come to consensus about the 9' record...which is always blurred by Mosconi's 8' record. The 5x10 records are even older & more "blurry".

alstl · Jun 13, 2012

mosconiac said:
About 5x10 records...I don't know about Caras, but evidence I have found indicated that Crane ran 309 in 1939 and Mosconi is said to have upped it to 365 at some point.

I am unsure if that is the all-time record or not.

It's hard enough to come to consensus about the 9' record...which is always blurred by Mosconi's 8' record. The 5x10 records are even older & more "blurry".

I remember seeing the information about Crane's 309. He, Caras and Mosconi were all capable of posting a number that big on a 5x10.

I'd like to see a video of a top pro putting up a big run, 100 or more, on a 5x10.

sfleinen · Jun 13, 2012

alstl said:
I remember seeing the information about Crane's 309. He, Caras and Mosconi were all capable of posting a number that big on a 5x10.

I'd like to see a video of a top pro putting up a big run, 100 or more, on a 5x10.

Personally, I think you will see it. Once those Diamond 10x5 tables are out there in circulation, the attraction to "testing one's mettle" on them will be too strong. Only the snobby purists (or those trying to duck / hide behind technicalities) will come up with an excuse why this would be a fruitless exercise.

Heck, I'd drive a couple hours to try one! A genuine 10x5 Diamond? You bet!

-Sean

nashville14:1 · Jun 13, 2012

wondering about the renewed interest in 5x10

i am hoping that the use of the newly re introduced 5x10 does not hurt the turnout for the tunica event, both in terms of spectators & players. i heard that svb & Earl played a big match on a 5x10 but other than that i do not hear much about them. maybe there are still some 5x10s in poolrooms in the large northern metropolitan areas from the old days. someone please fill me in here.

maybe diamond is looking to sell a ton of them, but i guess that a ton is really about what one table weighs. since tables can last 100+ years, manufacturers need to make existing tables seem obsolete to rack up big sales numbers.

what is the pocket size like in the new 5x10s?

anyone have an idea what top players will show up at tunica?

does anyone know the format of the 14.1 and the dates for 14.1 part of this event?

i would love to see some great 14.1 players rise to this challenge!

i see some pretty nice old 5x10s posted on ebay now and then but i have not seen any sell for hi$$$$ yet. but ebay is a tough sell for anything that is not easy to ship.

i have a hard time imagining an old 10' bringing as much as a similar 9' in todays market.

maybe just a little flurry of popularity of 10 footers would cause any reasonably priced vintage tables on the market to move quick, leaving buyers with only new ones to shop for. or buy a 10' snooker for $500 to $1000 and spend big bucks converting it.

StraightPoolIU · Jun 13, 2012

Well I don't think anyone is really anticipating a wholesale change to 5×10s as the new standard. What is going on is an experiment. I think a lot of people like myself have heard about the big tables of old and are intrigued by the thought of playing on one and watching the pros play on one. Right now it's only 4 tables I believe and I see no reason why that would keep players or spectators away. If anything I think it's adding more buzz.

nashville14:1 · Jun 13, 2012

i'm confused. looking at www.southernclassictournament.com there is no mention of 14.1. and is this an all amateur event or both pro and amateur concurrently? smoking venue?
on the floorplan the are 4 5x10, 12 4.5x9 and about 90 smaller (7 or 8?)
will the 5x10s be used in a structured event with a schedule. or just a freeforall?
the site leaves lots of unanswered questions.

thx

nashville14:1 · Jun 29, 2012

schedule for 14.1 in Tunica?????????

Does anyone know the schedule for 14.1 in Tunica?
(assuming that there is one) It is a 4 hour drive from Nashville and i would not want to go there and just get to see 9-ball, since there is great pro 9-ball action locally at least once a year.
thanks,
jerry

lfigueroa · Jun 30, 2012

Greg says he's doing the 10 footers just because he wants to and to see what happens. It's an experiment.

Looking at the floor plans, it looks like the whole event is broken out into two rooms, with the 10' tables along one wall of a room with limited seating -- a pair of bleachers per pair of 10' tables. The Accu-Stats area will have the usual arena seating.

My take on this is that is kinda of an interesting thing to have at an event like this, but the use of these tables is problematic, given that there are only four of them and the main event for them is the 16 player 10Ball invitational Jay is running. Everything else on the 10 footers will have to fit around that event, like the 14.1 event and I think a 1pocket event and I think an 8ball event and I think a 9ball event and I think a banks event...

When I asked a couple of weeks ago when the 1pocket would be held on the 10 foot tables the answer I got was, "The dates for the event are the entire time of the Southern Classic, July 19th-28th." IOW, some time during the tournament. The problem with that is, of course, that many, perhaps the majority, of players, only go for a portion of the tournament -- like at the DCC I usually just pop in for a few days for the 1pocket. So I think right off, there is a potential problem with the lack of a schedule.

I used to play on old Brunswick 10 footers, back in SF when I was growing up, at The Palace and Cochran's and they're a lot of fun. It'll be interesting to see what happens. But personally, a 9' Diamond is tough enough for moi. I'll leave these tables to the pros.

Lou Figueroa

nashville14:1 · Jun 30, 2012

lack of announced 14.1 schedule in tunica = I stay home

Since it looks like it is impossible to know in advance when (or even if) some pro level 14.1 might occur in Tunica, I will be staying home. I can not justify 10 days of waiting around for a maybe situation.
If the promoters would set aside even a few hours on one or two tables, arrange for 2 or more top level players do a hirun challenge & PLAY A GAME and announce the time in advance, I would plan on being there.
I do not see how even potential players might plan to participate with this unorganized format. I can not imagine many of the 14.1 enthusiasts making the trip in this set of circumstances. Or is it that 14.1 in most of the USA is really just an adjunct sideline to what unfortunately most consider real pool, ie 8-ball & the gamblers games 9-ball/10-ball/1pocket/banks. Is there any substantial contingent of 14.1 outside the NE USA and europe?

Just my 2 cents worth. I am just an enthusiast with a hi run of only 43 balls. Someone who knows much more than me please weigh in with an opinion on this.
jr

sjm · Jun 30, 2012

StraightPoolIU said:
Well I don't think anyone is really anticipating a wholesale change to 5×10s as the new standard. What is going on is an experiment. I think a lot of people like myself have heard about the big tables of old and are intrigued by the thought of playing on one and watching the pros play on one. Right now it's only 4 tables I believe and I see no reason why that would keep players or spectators away. If anything I think it's adding more buzz.

I don't think the use of 10x5 will ever catch on. For someone like myself, who is 5'6", there are too many long reaches and times when you must use the bridge. The really tall guys have a big edge on the 10 X 5. Irving Crane was quick to concede that Mosconi's game went up a whole level when they switched to 9 x 4 1/2, and told me that he might have been willing to gamble with Willie on a 10 x 5 but definitely not on a 9 x 4 1/2.

That said, I think this will be an interesting experiment, and I wish all who will take a shot at this the best of luck.

PS I guess I'll come clean and admit that I'd probably be keen on the idea of switching to 10 x 5 tables if I were 6'3" or taller. As things stand, I'd prefer a return to 8 x 4 tables if forced to abandon the perfectly sized 9 x 4 1/2.

FASTEJ · Jun 30, 2012

nashville14:1 said:
Since it looks like it is impossible to know in advance when (or even if) some pro level 14.1 might occur in Tunica, I will be staying home. I can not justify 10 days of waiting around for a maybe situation.
If the promoters would set aside even a few hours on one or two tables, arrange for 2 or more top level players do a hirun challenge & PLAY A GAME and announce the time in advance, I would plan on being there.
I do not see how even potential players might plan to participate with this unorganized format. I can not imagine many of the 14.1 enthusiasts making the trip in this set of circumstances. Or is it that 14.1 in most of the USA is really just an adjunct sideline to what unfortunately most consider real pool, ie 8-ball & the gamblers games 9-ball/10-ball/1pocket/banks. Is there any substantial contingent of 14.1 outside the NE USA and europe?

Just my 2 cents worth. I am just an enthusiast with a hi run of only 43 balls. Someone who knows much more than me please weigh in with an opinion on this.
jr

Apologies for the late response, been very busy.

The only 14.1 event that is happening is the KAMUI PAY OR PLAY STRAIGHT POOL 14.1 event held on the 10 ft. Diamond Pro-Ams. It is open to all players, and not just the pros. There is no other 14.1 event being held in Tunica at this time.

The event has a $1000 guaranteed first place payout. The minimum entry for this event is $5. There are not many tournaments around, much less 14.1, that you can win $1000 for as little as a $5 entry fee.

If you have any other questions, just ask.

Thank you.

Edward

lfigueroa · Jun 30, 2012

FASTEJ said:
Apologies for the late response, been very busy.

The only 14.1 event that is happening is the KAMUI PAY OR PLAY STRAIGHT POOL 14.1 event held on the 10 ft. Diamond Pro-Ams. It is open to all players, and not just the pros. There is no other 14.1 event being held in Tunica at this time.

The event has a $1000 guaranteed first place payout. The minimum entry for this event is $5. There are not many tournaments around, much less 14.1, that you can win $1000 for as little as a $5 entry fee.

If you have any other questions, just ask.

Thank you.

Edward

Pu-leeeeeeeeeese.

I'm a decent 14.1 player. I even won a 14.1 world qualifier up in Chicago a couple of years ago. But if you think I believe I have *any* legitimate shot of winning $1K for $5 in an event like this on 10' Diamonds, I'd advise you to move on down to the next street corner and peddle it there.

There are, perhaps, a dozen pros that have a legitimate shot at this. Maybe fewer when it comes down to brass tacks. The rest of us are just donating. Sometimes I'm in the mood to donate, but not when someone puts their lips to my ass and just blows smoke. I might be in the mood just to do it to do it, but please save the $5/$1K BS for the pros, who, by and large, are not here.

Lou Figueroa

lfigueroa · Jun 30, 2012

sjm said:
I don't think the use of 10x5 will ever catch on. For someone like myself, who is 5'6", there are too many long reaches and times when you must use the bridge. The really tall guys have a big edge on the 10 X 5. Irving Crane was quick to concede that Mosconi's game went up a whole level when they switched to 9 x 4 1/2, and told me that he might have been willing to gamble with Willie on a 10 x 5 but definitely not on a 9 x 4 1/2.

That said, I think this will be an interesting experiment, and I wish all who will take a shot at this the best of luck.

PS I guess I'll come clean and admit that I'd probably be keen on the idea of switching to 10 x 5 tables if I were 6'3" or taller. As things stand, I'd prefer a return to 8 x 4 tables if forced to abandon the perfectly sized 9 x 4 1/2.

wow.

I did not ever notice you are that short.

Lou Figueroa
just kidding, Stu

love ya

FASTEJ · Jun 30, 2012

lfigueroa said:
Pu-leeeeeeeeeese.

I'm a decent 14.1 player. I even won a 14.1 world qualifier up in Chicago a couple of years ago. But if you think I believe I have *any* legitimate shot of winning $1K for $5 in an event like this on 10' Diamonds, I'd advise you to move on down to the next street corner and peddle it there.

There are, perhaps, a dozen pros that have a legitimate shot at this. Maybe fewer when it comes down to brass tacks. The rest of us are just donating. Sometimes I'm in the mood to donate, but not when someone puts their lips to my ass and just blows smoke. I might be in the mood just to do it to do it, but please save the $5/$1K BS for the pros, who, by and large, are not here.

Lou Figueroa

A couple of responses to you comments. I'm sorry if you feel like I'm blowing smoke up your ass, but that's not my intention.

At least this format gives the opportunity for non professionals to enter. Not only do they get to enter, but they don't have to pay a fixed entry fee that is determined by any 14.1 tournament promoter. And by the way, you're welcome for even offering 14.1 as a tournament option. It's not like there is a 14.1 tournament offered every day of the week.

If you had gone to the website, www.payorplaypool.com, and clicked the registration button, you would have seen that nobody has signed up for the 14.1 tournament yet.

I'm going to let you in on a little secret. There is a way to lock the pros out of this tournament. A smart person would notice that thanks to the gracious sponsors of the tournament, all of the entry fees are going to the prize fund. If you got 16 people on this forum to buy a $160 entry right now, you basically just locked out the pros and created a tournament for you and your friends. If you really wanted to get the best bang for your buck, you would find a combination of people to buy numerous $5 entries and fill up the tournament. So you're welcome again for the opportunity to participate in a tournament with your friends, basically for free, on very rare 10 ft. Diamond Pro-Am tables, because all money taken from entry fees go to the prize fund. Not really donating anymore, are you?

The PAY OR PLAY format is to help revive the billiards industry and get more participation from more players. If you can't find more positives than negatives from this format, then you can try to come up with one yourself.

Thanks.

Edward

14.1 on DIAMOND 10 FT PRO-AMS at Southern Classic Tunica, MS

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